6169  Barridas, sweeps, drags, etc

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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:18:31 EST
From: Crrtango@aol.com
Subject: [Tango-L] Barridas, sweeps, drags, etc
To: TANGO-L@mit.edu

re the barrida as "adornment" (?)

Sorry Michael but I disagree about the barrida. The barrida (sweep, like a
broom, in Spanish, or loosely, slide or drag) is definitely led, and does
involve actually moving the follower's foot, but as with some other steps in
tango, it is often taught incorrectly. There are several different types of
barridas but if you are talking about where the lead opens up slightly and places
the follower to his right while touching her front foot, then stepping across,
then moving her foot, that is not an adornment. The lead sets up the follower
by placing her weight on the back leg, which takes the weight off the front
foot, which makes it possible and fairly easy to slide it. But the mistake is
usually in where the leader is positioned. All too often it is taught that
the lead then pushes the foot but that is the mistake. If the lead pushes, he
and she will be slightly off balance and might have to depend on her moving it,
i.e. making it her "adornment" to finish, because it can cause her to shift
her weight to that foot for balance, which firmly plants it instead of leaving
it without weight, and difficult to move. The lead should step past her
foot, then pull her foot to him, not push it away. The only really active part for
the follower is to stay attached to the man's foot (yes, a little like
Velcro) until he moves his foot away from it. There is another barrida where the
man puts his foot in front of hers, making it appear that she leads or drags
his foot, but that is also led and not an adornment (but cool to do once in a
while) And barridas can also be musical, as can any step. Musicality is not
about any particular step but about how and when and where the step is
executed. It might look very forced in a fast tango by D'Arienzo, but fit very well
in a slower one like DiSarli or Pugliese.

Cheers,
Charles


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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:47:41 -0500
From: Michael <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Barridas, sweeps, drags, etc
To: "Crrtango@aol.com" <Crrtango@aol.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<13176a380811201247g75a9e79cydc1704cb6916064d@mail.gmail.com>

Charles;
I don't see the disagreement. You said exactly what I said, though in more
detail. The man leads the barrida using his torso, not by pushing the
woman's foot.

Michael


On 11/20/08, Crrtango@aol.com <Crrtango@aol.com> wrote:

>
> re the barrida as "adornment" (?)
>
> Sorry Michael but I disagree about the barrida. The barrida (sweep, like
> a
> broom, in Spanish, or loosely, slide or drag) is definitely led, and does
> involve actually moving the follower's foot, but as with some other steps
> in
> tango, it is often taught incorrectly. There are several different types
> of
> barridas but if you are talking about where the lead opens up slightly and
> places the follower to his right while touching her front foot, then
> stepping across,
> then moving her foot, that is not an adornment. The lead sets up the
> follower
> by placing her weight on the back leg, which takes the weight off the front
> foot, which makes it possible and fairly easy to slide it. But the
> mistake is
> usually in where the leader is positioned. All too often it is taught that
> the lead then pushes the foot but that is the mistake. If the lead pushes,
> he
> and she will be slightly off balance and might have to depend on her moving
> it,
> i.e. making it her "adornment" to finish, because it can cause her to shift
> her weight to that foot for balance, which firmly plants it instead of
> leaving
> it without weight, and difficult to move.
> Cheers,
> Charles
>
>
> **************
> One site has it all. Your email accounts, your social
> networks, and the things you love. Try the new AOL.com
> today!(
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin">www.aol.com/?optin">http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1212962939x1200825291/aol?redir=http://www.aol.com/?optin
> =new-dp%26icid=aolcom40vanity%26ncid=emlcntaolcom00000001)
>



--
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango





Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:27:44 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Barridas, sweeps, drags, etc
To: TANGO-L@mit.edu


--- On Thu, 11/20/08, Crrtango@aol.com <Crrtango@aol.com> wrote:

> Sorry Michael but I disagree about the barrida. The
> barrida (sweep, like a broom, in Spanish, or loosely, slide or drag) is definitely led, and does involve actually moving the follower's foot, but as with some other steps in tango, it is often taught incorrectly.

Actually, gentlemen, the secrets to the barrida involve understanding the follower's technique moreso than man's technique. They include:

1 - All of the woman's weight is on one foot so that the extended leg is weightless. The woman cannot be taking a big step. She needs to find her natural extension so that she does not need to shift her weight back.

2 - The woman's leg must move separately within the hip socket, so that when the foot is moved, the hip doesn't pull the woman's torso with it.

3 - Once the man makes contact with the woman's foot, she keeps in contact until the man takes his foot away or sends her foot away.

4 - Soft knees that can bend (both man and woman).

I have to credit Pulpo and Luiza for clearly defining these elements, which are part of Pulpo's distinctive style. Once one understands what she needs to do a barrida without falling, then it becomes easier to adjust your leading technique, accordingly.

Depending on what one wants to do, there are different ways of leading barridas or things with foot contact. Some involve the chest, some don't.

Trini de Pittsburgh









Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:47:03 -0600
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@tangobar-productions.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Barridas, sweeps, drags, etc
To: patangos@yahoo.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu

Hi Trini et al,

The nicely detailed technique for barridas you describe was being taught
at least by the mid 1980's. We learned it from one or more of our first
teachers, who included Orlando Paiva (Sr.), Danel and Maria Bastone,
Pupi Castello, and Nito & Elba Garcia. It's a useful way to remind
followers that they must have all their weight on only one foot.
Abrazos,
Barbara Garvey




Trini y Sean (PATangoS) wrote:

>1 - All of the woman's weight is on one foot so that the extended leg is weightless. The woman cannot be taking a big step. She needs to find her natural extension so that she does not need to shift her weight back.
>
>2 - The woman's leg must move separately within the hip socket, so that when the foot is moved, the hip doesn't pull the woman's torso with it.
>
>3 - Once the man makes contact with the woman's foot, she keeps in contact until the man takes his foot away or sends her foot away.
>
>4 - Soft knees that can bend (both man and woman).
>
>I have to credit Pulpo and Luiza for clearly defining these elements, which are part of Pulpo's distinctive style. Once one understands what she needs to do a barrida without falling, then it becomes easier to adjust your leading technique, accordingly.
>
>Depending on what one wants to do, there are different ways of leading barridas or things with foot contact. Some involve the chest, some don't.
>
>Trini de Pittsburgh
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Actually, gentlemen, the secrets to the barrida involve understanding
> the follower's technique moreso than man's technique. They include:
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.8/1801 - Release Date: 11/20/2008 9:11 AM
>
>
>








Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:40:33 -0500
From: "Sergey Kazachenko" <syarzhuk@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Barridas, sweeps, drags, etc
To: Crrtango@aol.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<ebb7980c0811201240i6be18cbctc130da1cba742ea5@mail.gmail.com>

Speaking of barridas, sweeps and drags...
How do Argentinians define the difference between a barrida and an arrastre?
I've heard one teacher saying that an arrastre is when the foot goes
linear past the lady's standing foot, while a barrida is when the
swept foot goes around the lady who is pivoting on the standing foot.
However, most others show the linear move and call it a barrida.

Sergey
May you be forever touched by His Noodly Appendage... (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster )





Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:23:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Barridas, sweeps, drags, etc


--- On Thu, 11/20/08, Sergey Kazachenko <syarzhuk@gmail.com> wrote:

>> Speaking of barridas, sweeps and drags...
> How do Argentinians define the difference between a barrida
> and an arrastre? I've heard one teacher saying that an arrastre is when
> the foot goes linear past the lady's standing foot, while a barrida
> is when the swept foot goes around the lady who is pivoting on the
> standing foot. However, most others show the linear move and call it a
> barrida.


Interesting question, Sergey. I did a check on the Tango-L archives. The earliest use I could find of the term "arrastre" was in 1996 when Ernesto asked the same thing. He didn't get a clear answer, either. The concensus seemed to be that the terms were interchangeable, though that could very well be out of ignorance than an informed opinion (e.g. there was a suggesion that a lleveda was the same as a barrida, but it's not.)Others in that thread were even questioning standardizing terminology.

Searches through later 1997 and 1998 indicate that "arrastre" was a common term. It was also the term Daniel Trenner used in his teaching videos (specifically vol. 3) and workshops. I don't have his videos, so I don't know what he shows.

However, a detailed post describing a 1998 workshop by Pablo Pugliese on arrastre's (toward the bottom of the page) might offer you a clue, as well as, give you a pointer on arrastres.
http://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/1998/msg00031.html

The ladies position is not mentioned. However, if we assume that Pugliese's final position indicates the final desired position of the woman (they would be facing each other), then it would seem that the usage suggested to you would certainly fit.

In fact, the words "drag" and "sweep" is most often used as your teacher described. "Arrastre" translates to "drag" and "barrida" translates to sweep. I do remember the two terms being used differently (as your teacher described) when I first learned the moves in the mid/late 90's.

My guess is that the term "barrida" rose in popularity, at least in the U.S. because it's a lot easier to say. Also, tango dictionaries do not differentiate the two. Since these dictionaries were not put together by professionals in the field (linguists?), they might not stand up to rigorous testing.

Hope this helps.

Trini de Pittsburgh








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