4908 The Business of Milongas
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:28:50 -0500
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Business of Milongas
To: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<cff24c340704240928h34c3dccaoa23d363a929cfb83@mail.gmail.com>
On 4/24/07, Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm wondering about the business of running a Milonga.
>
> Is it:
>
> A) Milongas is a money-making business. I can certainly make a decent
> living
> at hosting milongas.
Most likely the best you can hope for is to make just enough pocket change
to subsidize your tango expenses. I can't imagine anyone, even in large
cities, making enough money to live on from hosting milongas.
Ron
B) I'm just breaking even, I neither profit nor lose money at running
> milongas.
>
> or is it
>
> C) Most of the time, milongas cost me money, I usually pay the deficit out
> of my own pocket.
>
> Fine Dining & Fancy Food. Check Out This Collection Of Good Eats.
> https://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid¦D6BDB4586E357F!378
>
>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:52:00 -0400
From: "Gulden Ozen" <gulden@tangophilia.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Business of Milongas
To: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<bcf8855e0704240952w3d39285aq6d04341ffd1e8507@mail.gmail.com>
The answer to your question could be either B or C but not A, not even in
large cities.
The admission you may be able to charge for a regular monthly milonga cannot
exceed $15/person including food and beverages, in most cases.
Without food and/or beverages included, the max. admission fee is usually
around $10/person. In some cities/communities like ours, organizers make a
special effort to offer discounts for students.
With the rentals and publicity expenses in a not-so-expensive city, a
milonga can fund itself if the minimum number of participants is around
~40-50.
If we're talking about "making a decent living", one should perhaps look
into possibilities other than organizing tango events (or even teaching
tango!).
Having organized regular weekly/monthly milongas and special milongas over
the last 9 years, I can tell you that it is a labor of love not a way to
make any kind of living :-)
Best,
Gulden Ozen
On 4/24/07, Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm wondering about the business of running a Milonga.
>
> Is it:
>
> A) Milongas is a money-making business. I can certainly make a decent
> living
> at hosting milongas.
>
> B) I'm just breaking even, I neither profit nor lose money at running
> milongas.
>
> or is it
>
> C) Most of the time, milongas cost me money, I usually pay the deficit out
> of my own pocket.
>
> Fine Dining & Fancy Food. Check Out This Collection Of Good Eats.
> https://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid¦D6BDB4586E357F!378
>
>
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 11:15:21 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Business of Milongas
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
You could easily do the numbers yourself to see whether it makes
money or not.
Obviously it completely depends on income vs expenses. But the most
important variable is attendance. Attendance will be the biggest
determinant of whether you make money or not. The Catch 22 is that
good attendance generates better attendance, low attendance generates
lower attendance. The only factors you directly control are entry
price and location choice.
Let's say that the bare minimum for a milonga (rather than practice)
would be 60 people (30 couples).
3 hour milonga in a rented dance studio.
60 people
$5 per person
$300
$100 = Rental
$50 = DJ
$150 Net per milonga
$50/hour.
A more successful milonga would have each of the above items 50% larger:
4.5 hour milonga in a nicer dance hall.
100 People
$7.50
$750
$200 Rental
$100 DJ
$450
$100/hour
REAL EXAMPLES
Here in Colorado we have two milongas per week that meet or exceed
the more successful model, one run by a Restaurant/Bar and the other
by our Tango Club. We have one milonga each week (rotates between two
organizers) that meets or exceeds the definition of the minimum milonga.
The individual organizers are successful, but doing two milongas per
month does not add up to a livelihood. That has to come from group
and private lessons, or other activities.
The nightclub makes money on drinks, but pays staff for service and
cleanup. That model operates 4-5 days per week with other dance forms
(Swing, etc.). In addition they have food, music & poetry in another
part of the building. This is a successful model that provides the
owner with a livelihood, but not wealth.
The Tango Club is part of a non-profit organization that runs dances
4-5 nights per week in a large dance-hall. Each night has a different
dance and different organization (Salsa, Swing, WCS). This is a
successful model that manages a large dance-oriented building/non-
profit, with each group being successful on their own.
If you could split either of the bigger Tango events off from the
other activities or the underlying organization, you can see that a
weekly milonga of 100 people would provide a modest income for one
person, but...
The big question is how easily one organizer can build up 100 tango
dancers. This has something to do with the size of the community,
whether the milongas are siloed under separate organizers, whether
the different teachers "allow" their students to discover other
events, how good is the DJ, is the tango style accessible or
difficult, etc.
A nightclub has some built-in benefits: food and drink income, cross-
over from other dance forms.
A community-group also has some advantages: Neutrality and friendly
relations with all the teachers.
On Apr 24, 2007, at 10:20 AM, Caroline Polack wrote:
> I'm wondering about the business of running a Milonga.
>
> Is it:
>
> A) Milongas is a money-making business. I can certainly make a
> decent living
> at hosting milongas.
>
> B) I'm just breaking even, I neither profit nor lose money at running
> milongas.
>
> or is it
>
> C) Most of the time, milongas cost me money, I usually pay the
> deficit out
> of my own pocket.
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:34:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] The Business of Milongas
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hi Caroline/Gulden
There are several situations in Buenos Aires, to have the milongas into the B / C category as business.
Although there is a kind of cultural approach from the town hall, to milongas, due to tango dancing as part of as a tourist beacon for the city, there are expenses that cannot be avoided , such as:
-security countermeasures into the place ( fire extinghishers, insurance policy updated) . Also there is a maximum quantity of people allowed inside, related to the size of the place. La milonguita at Maipu 444 for instance, could not hold more than 150 people ( and it is pretty packed with that number )
-cost of DJ that includes the personal service, plus the fees to be paid to SADAIC for ownership rights of the music played.
-cost of a buffet service or a catering, or something to serve to the tables. This could be reduced in some cases ( social clubs have a separate restaurant, so there is an agreement to provide food and drink to the tables, such as in Sunderland)
-cost of hiring of the place , it depends on the day of the week and the size of the place. Usually the organizer/host of the milonga is not the owner of the place (Club Gricel, Dandi , are a few exceptions of this rule).
-in some cases, security assistance has to be paid , if the milonga place is not inside a social club or a building with their own security. People that goes to the milonga are peaceful, but the street is becoming increasingly dangerous at night in Buenos Aires city, so it is necessary to have a control to prevent breaking into the milonga of thieves .
All in all, the cost of the event is barely covered with the entrance fee, actually, around USD 3 to USD 4 . In certain cases the fee is higher ( if lived orchestras play) , but also the cost of hiring of the orchestra, increases the total expenses.
Nevertheless, to be a host of a milonga, has to be a social venture, that could bring to the person that dares to make this bold move, to gratify herself/himself , with the benefits of being a socializing member within his/her community, which is not a small bonus . To gather people to socialize, is a remarcable achievement.
warm regards
alberto
----- Mensaje original ----
De: Gulden Ozen <gulden@tangophilia.com>
Para: Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
CC: tango-l@mit.edu
Enviado: martes 24 de abril de 2007, 13:52:00
Asunto: Re: [Tango-L] The Business of Milongas
The answer to your question could be either B or C but not A, not even in
large cities.
The admission you may be able to charge for a regular monthly milonga cannot
exceed $15/person including food and beverages, in most cases.
Without food and/or beverages included, the max. admission fee is usually
around $10/person. In some cities/communities like ours, organizers make a
special effort to offer discounts for students.
With the rentals and publicity expenses in a not-so-expensive city, a
milonga can fund itself if the minimum number of participants is around
~40-50.
If we're talking about "making a decent living", one should perhaps look
into possibilities other than organizing tango events (or even teaching
tango!).
Having organized regular weekly/monthly milongas and special milongas over
the last 9 years, I can tell you that it is a labor of love not a way to
make any kind of living :-)
Best,
Gulden Ozen
On 4/24/07, Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm wondering about the business of running a Milonga.
>
> Is it:
>
> A) Milongas is a money-making business. I can certainly make a decent
> living
> at hosting milongas.
>
> B) I'm just breaking even, I neither profit nor lose money at running
> milongas.
>
> or is it
>
> C) Most of the time, milongas cost me money, I usually pay the deficit out
> of my own pocket.
>
> Fine Dining & Fancy Food. Check Out This Collection Of Good Eats.
> https://local.live.com/?mkt=en-ca/?v=2&cid¦D6BDB4586E357F!378
>
>
Pregunt?. Respond?. Descubr?.
Todo lo que quer?as saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est? en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
?Probalo ya!
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:32:12 -0700
From: Ed Loomis <TangoBear@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Business of Milongas
To: tango-L@mit.edu
Mostly I hope and pray to break even. The notion of making money hosting
milongas is almost comical. He who owns the building makes the money. What ever
your motives it winds up being a labor of love.
Ed
On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 12:20:13 -0400, "Caroline Polack"
<runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I'm wondering about the business of running a Milonga.
>
>Is it:
>
>A) Milongas is a money-making business. I can certainly make a decent living
>at hosting milongas.
>
>B) I'm just breaking even, I neither profit nor lose money at running
>milongas.
>
>or is it
>
>C) Most of the time, milongas cost me money, I usually pay the deficit out
>of my own pocket.
>
