Codes


1491 Codes	ARTICLE INDEX
Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 11:26:41 +0200 From: andy Ungureanu <andy.ungureanu@T-ONLINE.DE> Subject: Re: Codes Bibi Wong wrote: > > Depending on how you wish to coin the issue, to me, certain behavioral > characteristics in the milongas there remind me of the cult of gangsters > societies. It hit me over my head when Rick wrote that whoever writes > about the codes would probably be castrated by the milonga community there. There is a very funny book by Sonia Abadi, "El bazar de los abrazos". Unfortunately, as far as I know, only in spanish and german for the moment: https://www.terapiatanguera.com.ar/Comentario%20de%20libros/el_bazar_de_los_abrazos.htm An english translation is under preparation at https://www.abrazosbooks.com/next.htm Many of the short chapters were published before in the Tanguata. There are very good explanations why you should not say hello to people you know from the milonga when you meet them in the city accompanied by family or other friends, or what's about "drinking a coffee" after the milonga and many other "codes". I don't think Ms. Abadi suffered any injuries after publishing her articles. So, leave your weapons at home :). Andy Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 14:47:19 -0400 From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Codes >There is a very funny book by Sonia Abadi, "El bazar de los abrazos". >Unfortunately, as far as I know, only in spanish and german for the moment: >https://www.terapiatanguera.com.ar/Comentario%20de%20libros/el_bazar_de_los_abrazos.htm >An english translation is under preparation at >https://www.abrazosbooks.com/next.htm No problem Andy, we can just all read the book add English pronunciations to the words and assign to them whatever meaning we want from extrapolating the meanings from whichever words we understand or think we understand. We can then have our own synthesis of the contents, something much more appropriate to us and our tastes. Just because the book is written is Spanish (or German) it does not mean we need to learn those languages to read it, does it? After all, we do know the alphabet, no? And some of those words do kind of look familiar... Happy reading to all ;-) Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:19:49 -0400 From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET> Subject: Milonga Codes I Rick McGarrey wrote and Luda answers: "... The men and women never sit together, so offers and acceptances to meet later are often hurriedly made during the chatting you see going on between the music, during the first thirty seconds of the song before dancing begins, or sometimes when the man walks the woman to the table at the finish of the tanda. So the rule is enter with greetings, but don't acknowledge people when leaving." Sounds positively medieval!!! In this day and age???!! Give me a break!! And we should maintain these "holy cows/sacred traditons", that just make people feel bad, needlessly??? AND IN THIS COUNTRY??!! Since I live half of the time in Argentina, the other half in the USA, and have done so for most of my life; to me, in my heart they are two parts of the same body. I love both of them and need them the same as I need my two hands. I feel immensely richer for having learnt all the things the USA taught me. I generally write to try to clarify misunderstandings or misconceptions. Misunderstandings and misconceptions that are the result of total ignorance of the tango culture by foreigners that learn to dance tango in their own countries, try to develop their own milonga culture to find all sort of problems that render their dances painful, unbearable, sometime non-viable. We have been discussing recently some of those problems thanks to the contributions of members from Portland, one of the more mature tango groups in North America . I refer you to their comments. These same problems appeared in Argentina one hundred years ago (to say a date) and a way to deal with them was found. The milonga codes are the rules that allows it to function smoothly, without conflicts and for the benefit of everyone involved. The tango culture is as complex as its music and its choreography, an expression of the Argentinean soul. A culture that is universal in its humanity, its music, its dance and its lyrics. An universality that allows people as diverse as the Finnish and the Japanese to embrace it with energy and the purest of emotions. Many people travel to Buenos Aires, go dancing, observe the codes and return home . They do not have the slightest idea of the cultural interaction at the milongas. They go in groups or as couples, dance and have a positive experience anyways. Others, obviously due to the help of somebody that knows the culture start to scratch the surface. They talk and write about things that do not totally understand, creating lots of questions and misunderstandings. I tried myself to write about these same codes but I got in return so little in the way of gratitude and so much in the way of misunderstanding that I finally gave up. "North Americans are so much convinced that they are the best about everything that have a terrible time trying to learn from other cultures" (I am quoting an American lady that lives in Argentina). Bibi's and Luda's comments are typical of what I am describing. There is nothing medieval about Argentinean culture, just to think so shows an unbearable degree of ignorance! and ARROGANCE! I do not feel guilt when I call things by their name, considering that the same comments could have been made in a polite way such as in the way of a question or a doubt rather than an absolute re-affirmation of national pride, AND IN THIS COUNTRY??!! HOW ABSURD CAN YOU BE??!! Happy 4th of July. I will continue... Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:19:55 -0400 From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET> Subject: Milonga codes II Rick McGarrey wrote Luda answered: "... The men and women never sit together, so offers and acceptances to meet later are often hurriedly made during the chatting you see going on between the music, during the first thirty seconds of the song before dancing begins, or sometimes when the man walks the woman to the table at the finish of the tanda. So the rule is enter with greetings, but don't acknowledge people when leaving." Sounds positively medieval!!! In this day and age???!! Give me a break!! And we should maintain these "holy cows/sacred traditons", that just make people feel bad, needlessly??? AND IN THIS COUNTRY??!! Argentineans have a lot of respect for any on going relationship and will not interfere with them. A person that is perceived as being interested in another will not be disturbed, will not be asked to dance. The interest of such person for another could be romantic, intellectual, to have a conversation or that of a dancer for another dancer. This relationship, it does not matter how recent, is considered sacred and will not be disturbed. If you greet, talk, dance, or seat at a table with another person, longer than for a few moments, people perceive that as your having a personal interest and will not disturb this budding relationship out of respect to both you and the object of your interest. They will not ask you to dance. If you wish to dance with different people you should look un-attached by sitting by yourself, with people that are known to be just casual friends or with people of your same sex. Next, the world of the milonga and the personal world are kept separated. This is expressed in many ways. There is a heavy curtain that separates the outside from the inside world. The lights are always on, you lose sense of the time of the day; when you go dancing in the afternoon, the evening or the middle of the night you lose track of time. You are just a dancer at the milongas, nothing more or less, somebody that is there just to dance and enjoy a sublime spiritual experience with other dancers. You are there to forget about the outside world and your personal problems. People will not ask questions to bring that outside world inside. Nobody wants to know who you are or what you do. They are there just to dance with you. It is a moment of a man and a woman dancing a tango with total surrender, emotion, and passion knowing that the whole thing will finish when the tanda music stops. Each tango can be in this way an unique love experience. A moment of passion that is born, lived and which dies soon, ready to be reborn. This is what tango is all about. Will continue. Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:19:59 -0400 From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET> Subject: Milonga Codes III Rick writes and Luda answers: "Interestingly, there is an opposite code that applies on Saturday nights in the neighborhoods. When we ENTER these clubs Alejandra usually sees friends from the downtown milongas, but she never acknowledges them. Why? Because there's a chance they may have been going into town without the knowledge of husband, wife, girlfriend, etc." "So is it all back to tango being an illicit endeavor, in BsAs anyway, with participants being suspected of all kinds of nefarious activities and motives?" I gave the address to the cab driver to go to a milonga one night. We started to talk about tango, the milongas, the music, etc. The driver (a man in his mid 50s.) told me that he used to go dancing with his wife every week but -'now we had to stop doing it because she developed a very bad form of arthritis - 'you do not know how much I miss it' - he continued, with a sad face. After a while we arrived to the club I greeted him good bye and got off the car. While I am in line at the ticket window I see him coming, -' I parked the car, I decided to quit working for the night, then he gave a big smile and said - 'I am coming to the milonga'. Many people come to the milonga to forget their personal problems, they know that here they can be young, beautiful again and experience an innocent spiritual love for a moment of happiness. They feel guilty that they enjoy it without their companions in real life, so they keep it secret. The other people respect this in quiet complicity as part of the same brotherhood. But...there is always a but...when you wish to meet someone to have a deeper, more personal relationship, you do it like in any other place in the world but you keep it apart from the milonga. Nobody there wishes to know if you are rich, poor, married, single, nor any other aspect of your personal life. With this objective in mind you take advantage of the moments before each tango starts when you are facing her and chatting for a moment or as you are walking her to her table to propose a date outside, later that night or some other day, some place where your personal life is not mixed with that of the milonga. There is nothing illicit or nefarious about these codes. They have a reason to exist. Let me tell you the secrecy and mystery adds enormously to the emotion and the passion of the moment. In summary: you can continue interrupting conversations, dragging women to the dancing floor, kicking everyone on the floor as you dance, teaching at the milongas, feeling miserably, dancing to hip-hop music, etc, etc, etc, while calling others Middle Age people or humbly learn so that maybe... maybe you can also achieve some degree of civilization. I do not wish anybody to be afraid to express his feelings because moments like this give all of us an opportunity to discuss interesting subjects and to learn. Further more these are only my personal opinions other people may disagree with me. Have a good day! Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 13:05:32 -0700 From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Re: Milonga Codes III > Many people come to the milonga to forget their > personal problems, they know > that here they can be young, beautiful again and > experience an innocent > spiritual love for a moment of happiness. They feel > guilty that they enjoy > it without their companions in real life, so they > keep it secret. The other > people respect this in quiet complicity as part of > the same brotherhood. Sergio, Thank you for your insight. I can relate to what you describe above. I am in a committed relationship of three years, but my boyfriend doesn't dance. People at the milongas know I have a boyfriend but most have never even met him. Sometimes they ask me, "how can you stay with someone who doesn't dance" and my response is basically I like it that way. When I first began tango I invited him to learn with me. He came to the lessons but it didn't grab him the way it did me. He wasn't interested in dancing with other women and he became jealous watching me dance with other guys. After a few times we mutually decided it was my "thing" and he would stay away. Our relationship is rich and fulfilling, but I am a woman with many facets to my personality. If I was 10 women I would say my boyfriend fulfills 9 out of 10 of me. But there is that last free spirited woman who will never be satisfied with any one man. This is my milonguera. I got to the milongas by myself. I dance with all the men I please. There are a few in particular who I have an extremely stong connection with. The dance allows us a time and space to share ourselves with each other. They know I am not available in real life, but for those moments I am completely theirs. This is not a threat to my relationship with my boyfriend because it stays within the milonga and when I go home I am his again. This is my fun. Rose Portland, OR Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 21:51:39 +0000 From: ahshol Kahn <kahn44@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Milonga Codes III I have a girl friend,(am 33) we have been together for eight years now, ever since I immigrated to this beautiful and generous country. She is sweet, loving, cuddly, intelligent, passionate, possessive, jealous and beautiful. I go to the neighborhood milongas with her on Saturdays nights and we both have a great time. I love her very much, I can't imagine my life without those black, fiery eyes. I am entirely dedicated and faithful to her but I am like Razor Girl, I have this 'weakness', I like going to the milongas downtown by myself. There I can be whoever I want to be for a few moments of fantasy and sublime meditation. I go on Fridays nights when she takes Belly dancing lessons (I hope) :). I tell her I am going to 'the cafe' with the boys. I have not run into her at any milongas yet :). When at the neighborhood milonga I see some of the girls from downtown ... they do not know me, I do not know them. We do not even talk about it. It is understood. I feel guilty and promise myself not to do it again, but Friday night comes and there I am again. Si soy asi, que voy a hacer? Like a tango says " if I am made this way, what can I do? happy tangos to all of you. and remember let's keep my secret. Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:19 PM Subject: [TANGO-L] Milonga Codes III > Rick writes and Luda answers: > > "Interestingly, there is an opposite code that applies > on Saturday nights in the neighborhoods. When we > ENTER these clubs Alejandra usually sees friends from > the downtown milongas, but she never acknowledges > them. Why? Because there's a chance they may have > been going into town without the knowledge of husband, > wife, girlfriend, etc." > > "So is it all back to tango being an illicit endeavor, > in BsAs anyway, with participants being suspected of > all kinds of nefarious activities and motives?" > > I gave the address to the cab driver to go to a milonga one night. We > started to talk about tango, the milongas, the music, etc. > The driver (a man in his mid 50s.) told me that he used to go dancing with > his wife every week but -'now we had to stop doing it because she developed > a very bad form of arthritis - 'you do not know how much I miss it' - he > continued, with a sad face. After a while we arrived to the club I greeted > him good bye and got off the car. While I am in line at the ticket window I > see him coming, -' I parked the car, I decided to quit working for the > night, then he gave a big smile and said - 'I am coming to the milonga'. > > Many people come to the milonga to forget their personal problems, they know > that here they can be young, beautiful again and experience an innocent > spiritual love for a moment of happiness. They feel guilty that they enjoy > it without their companions in real life, so they keep it secret. The other > people respect this in quiet complicity as part of the same brotherhood. > > But...there is always a but...when you wish to meet someone to have a > deeper, more personal relationship, you do it like in any other place in the > world but you keep it apart from the milonga. Nobody there wishes to know if > you are rich, poor, married, single, nor any other aspect of your personal > life. > > With this objective in mind you take advantage of the moments before each > tango starts when you are facing her and chatting for a moment or as you are > walking her to her table to propose a date outside, later that night or some > other day, some place where your personal life is not mixed with that of the > milonga. > There is nothing illicit or nefarious about these codes. They have a reason > to exist. > > Let me tell you the secrecy and mystery adds enormously to the emotion and > the passion of the moment. > > In summary: you can continue interrupting conversations, dragging women to > the dancing floor, kicking everyone on the floor as you dance, teaching at > the milongas, feeling miserably, dancing to hip-hop music, etc, etc, etc, > while calling others Middle Age people or humbly learn so that maybe... > maybe you can also achieve some degree of civilization. > > I do not wish anybody to be afraid to express his feelings because moments > like this give all of us an opportunity to discuss interesting subjects and > to learn. Further more these are only my personal opinions other people may > disagree with me. > > Have a good day! > Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 18:57:18 +0100 From: Guy Williams <guyzen@FREEUK.COM> Subject: Re: Milonga Codes III Razor Girl wrote but I am a woman with many facets to my > personality. If I was 10 women I would say my > boyfriend fulfills 9 out of 10 of me. But there is > that last free spirited woman who will never be > satisfied with any one man. This is my milonguera. I > got to the milongas by myself. I dance with all the > men I please. There are a few in particular who I > have an extremely stong connection with. The dance > allows us a time and space to share ourselves with > each other. They know I am not available in real > life, but for those moments I am completely theirs. > This is not a threat to my relationship with my > boyfriend because it stays within the milonga and when > I go home I am his again. > A classic case of Sweetshop Syndrome: Is it better to be outside looking in the window and enjoying all the wonderful things you could buy and enjoy the freedom to chose; OR is it better to spend what litle you have and enjoy the taste of your favourite bon-bon. Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 20:36:57 -0700 From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Missing codes Junior wrote: "There is a missing code that is very important: "You never kiss somebody in a milonga. But you can have sex in the bathroom." ;-) Same as in this country, huh? Just goes to show you. What cultural differences? Luda ===== Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:12:52 -0300 From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@YAHOO.COM.AR> Subject: Taxi dancers & tango codes Dear friends from tango list Concerning this article appeared on the electronic issue of a local newspaper, I receive from a friend a copy of the printed version. It was included in the magazine that cames with the sunday paper , and ... it is too beyond a neutral research, to became a subtle advertisement . The taxi dancer mentioned Nicolas Godoy, is seen at the cover of the magazine , dancing with an oriental customer, and the inside cover have a slide show of the customer and this taxi dancer, step by step, the picking up at the lodging , the travel, the dancing ,etc..etc... until this modern Credit Card Cinderella is taken back to the entrance of his lodging . The idea of the taxi dancer is not outrageous, what is bad is to make such a show off , because it turns to be an unnecesary exposure of a person , that has his private right to do whatever he/she wants , without harming their other fellows. Yesterday there was an accident at Confiteria Ideal, a chandelier fell from the floor and hit a milonguero, an 76 years old man . There was some preventive measures for this chandelier, since it was being on reparation , so some chairs and tables were placed under it to prevent dancers to be below. But the chandelier fell and make a side movement that hit this man. The case have a wide coverage of the media, and a side effect was that , when the wife of this man was interviewed, she said she didn t know his husband was at Confiteria ideal, he has just tell her " I am going to make some photocopies ...... " well is an open subject , wether to promote every thing that happens inside the milonga , or not . I prefer to have some reservation , I do not object the taxi dancers, but please make your business discreetly while the other people is enjoying peacefully his/her social dancing for free with random partners. Warm regards alberto gesualdi buenos aires 250MB gratis, Antivirus y Antispam Abrm tu cuenta aqum Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 16:28:42 +0200 From: "Christian L�then" <christian.luethen@GMX.NET> Subject: Re: Taxi dancers & tango codes Alberto from Buenos Aires wrote: > The case have a wide coverage of the media, and a side effect was that , > when the wife of this man was interviewed, she said she didn t know his > husband was at Confiteria ideal, he has just tell her " I am going to > make some photocopies ...... " Una trampa photocopia ... =;-o THAT's the reason why one should be VERY careful publishing photographs taken at Buenos Aires Milongas! Happy tangoeing ... preferable only using taxis which are black & yellow! [he he: those taxi-dancers, for authency, should wear black&yellow-shirts ... ;-) ] Christian -- . christian@eTanguero.net htpp://www.eTanguero.net/ . Handyrechnung zu hoch? Tipp: SMS und MMS mit GMX Seien Sie so frei: Alle Infos unter https://www.gmx.net/de/go/freesms Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:06:39 -0400 From: Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM> Subject: Re: Taxi dancers & tango codes Looks like the guy is going to be whacked twice... once by the chandelier and then by his wife! :-) el bandito de tango -----Original Message----- Sent: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 11:12:52 -0300 Subject: [TANGO-L] Taxi dancers & tango codes Dear friends from tango list Concerning this article appeared on the electronic issue of a local newspaper, I receive from a friend a copy of the printed version. It was included in the magazine that cames with the sunday paper , and ... it is too beyond a neutral research, to became a subtle advertisement . The taxi dancer mentioned Nicolas Godoy, is seen at the cover of the magazine , dancing with an oriental customer, and the inside cover have a slide show of the customer and this taxi dancer, step by step, the picking up at the lodging , the travel, the dancing ,etc..etc... until this modern Credit Card Cinderella is taken back to the entrance of his lodging . The idea of the taxi dancer is not outrageous, what is bad is to make such a show off , because it turns to be an unnecesary exposure of a person , that has his private right to do whatever he/she wants , without harming their other fellows. Yesterday there was an accident at Confiteria Ideal, a chandelier fell from the floor and hit a milonguero, an 76 years old man . There was some preventive measures for this chandelier, since it was being on reparation , so some chairs and tables were placed under it to prevent dancers to be below. But the chandelier fell and make a side movement that hit this man. The case have a wide coverage of the media, and a side effect was that , when the wife of this man was interviewed, she said she didn t know his husband was at Confiteria ideal, he has just tell her " I am going to make some photocopies ...... " well is an open subject , wether to promote every thing that happens inside the milonga , or not . I prefer to have some reservation , I do not object the taxi dancers, but please make your business discreetly while the other people is enjoying peacefully his/her social dancing for free with random partners. Warm regards alberto gesualdi buenos aires 250MB gratis, Antivirus y Antispam Abrm tu cuenta aqum LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU. Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 14:39:21 -0300 From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@YAHOO.COM.AR> Subject: Tango codes in Buenos Aires Dear friends from Tango list I would like to say a few words about the postings of Janis Kenyon and a person that signs "Anita" but who could not be possible to know if it is a man or a woman ( because Anita is part of the anagram of his/her mailbox Ataniche, a tango name that was said to be an anagram of "Che Anita "). This person Anita is posing himself/herself as a ghost writer for another person that wants to remain unnoticed or like to write with the two mailbox in a freak "Jekill & Hyde" mindgame , but, we have to read all the mails , what else. - Buenos Aires milongas. There are now , more or less, 50 to 60 open places, after the Cromagnon tragedy .This places are not open every day , as a general rule. - The kind of people that go to this places is different in the evening than in the night - Buenos Aires has 47 neighbourhoods, sorry for those of you that believe the song of Alberto Castillo "the 100 porteqos neighbourhhods" . The location of the milongas is not scattered allover this neighbourhoods, but there is a concentration in an area of 7 to 9 neighbourhoods. There are some milongas at the other neighbourhoods, but they are scattered here and there. What I am intending to say , is all these tango codes, is not the way people around here use to communicate . The milongas are part of a city that has Tango as a promotion for visitors, but does not live under the tango codes . There are a lot of young people listening to rock music, rock radios , and medium age people go to dancing places with music of the 604s or lottery game parlours called "Bingos" , which are actively working in several places around the city. I suppose that if you come to a meeting of Hare Krishna followers, you will return to your country saying "all the people I saw in Buenos Aires have their heads shaved, were very polite one each other and keep chanting psalms to Lord Krishna and burning incense sticks ". This is true, but it is not a single and only truth , just a part of an angular and splintered truth . We are recovering some activity of Tango dancing with my spouse, and as far as we have seen at the places we visited , Salon Canning, Viejo Correo, Gricel, Circulo Trovador , Club Espaqol , Niqo Bien , there is more an unformal approach than this tango codes mentioned by Janis in her posting. Eye contact ?? Head nod ?? Silent whisper with the lips ?? Sorry, this may happen but it is not the usual communication we have seen. Maybe the places we went are not the real milongas, and Janis know other places where a bunch of good people gathered together to keep the tango codes alive ,with nodding, eye contact and whisper. But for a visiting person, if it is a woman specially, it is enough to ask the organizer of the milonga she is visiting, if she can be introduced to local people to dance. Of course , this woman visitor could choose to make the tango code way, but it is not an enforcing regulation , just a .... tango code from the good old times. Warm regards from the city where the most popular radio show starts at 6 am and have nothing of tango on it , shame on Roberto Pettinato the conducer, a former saxo player of Sumo rock group, a cult group that ended when his leader Luca Prodan died ,and split in two good rock groups , Las Pelotas & Divididos . Well...... Divididos has a Tango, a bit offensive, but Pettinato belongs to the other group, so he will not include this tanto into the broadcast , definitely. alberto gesualdi buenos aires 250MB gratis, Antivirus y Antispam Abrm tu cuenta aqum Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 14:52:15 -0500 From: el turco <shusheta@GMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Tango codes in Buenos Aires In addition to Alberto Gesualdi's practically tested observations about "the signalling" styles can be improved easily in classes and practicas that many tango schools organize weekly for their students. However, most of "the tourist tango dancers" lack in having awareness of where should start with or which places are best shots to meet "local folks" What I'm gonna suggest below would be helpful for those want to dance with local folks.If you are not interested in learning tango as training, but seeking special connection and some unexplainable spiritual feelings when they dance with people, sorry but this guideline cannot help you out. -first of all, stay away from Touristic tango lessons: # including special instructors brought to your guest house etc. # stay away from particular intro tango lessons at Confiteria Ideal (check La Viruta every Mon, Wed, and Fri for tango lessons, you will see 100-200 LOCAL people learning tango from young tango instructors (10pm--midnight). Porteno y Bailarin, El Beso, canning also have similar classes, however, somehow LOCAL folks go to La Viruta classes as massive numbers. Impossible not to meet some local people there before milonga, then the signalling becomes easy. After couple nights, your new friends' friends will start inviting you for dance. # Argentine folks, and foreigner tango residents in BsAs are so picky, those who dance terribly are NOT picky of course :)). When I talked to several good dancers from different ages (of course ones who speak English) I realized that If you are a BAD dancer-especially for followers- They don't want to dance with you, even if they know you. this is a big problem for North American followers, since most of their instructors don't criticize them, in a constructive manner. therefore, so many followers think that they dance OK, sorry but in BsAs everybody can dance tango OK. the competition and being able to get the good dancers is possible by developing your own "dance personality" (i call it like that, some may call different). # Guys, forget about thinking how to develop cabeceo, you have two chances in BsAs, you will ask for dance to a portena, or foreigner. If she is a portena, everything is easier to give your signal. If she is a foreginer, then good luck, you have to make your intention clear. therefore, during the "seek and ask" phase walk close to her table, then make it sure she is aware of you and then you can tell her how beatiful dancer she is-if it's like that of course :) this act requires observation-A.K.A watching people dancing when you are sitting. You should get a candidate list for dancing for that night. Depends on the how cool she dances, she might be favorite of many other Guys. therefore, be aware of this "signalling" game. # Lads, and Lassies, this suggestion is for both sides. This is about the "milonga logistics". El Beso has great, cozy ambiance for me, however, the entrance to the dance floor, exit, the way to restrooms, the way to the Bar to get drinks is the same only one path. So, imagine, some folks are ready to dance, some of them are done with that tanda, or changing partner, some folks from the window side trying to reach restrooms, everybody has to use the same exit for all these activities. Hence, if you are sitting at somewhere that only the people who dance can see you barely, sorry but You might not get many signals.Logistically important spots will help you out believe me. La Viruta, Canning, Nino Bien, La Glorieta, Porteno y Bailarin are OK for this issue. # without speaking, or having a strange or fake head nod, you can invite partners to dance. As i said, signalling is a game like milonga itself, a social issue, so if you are socially OK, you won't have problems, however, if you have some issues with getting socialized, that might be a issue. I recommend this solution: travel more, dance with different people at different atmospheres. Bests, Burak Minneapolis www.tangoshusheta.com Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 16:48:18 EDT From: Cherie Magnus <MACFroggy@AOL.COM> Subject: Re: Tango codes in Buenos Aires Anita, I normally don't bother with little arguments on the Tango-L, but for some reason I really don't want you to be under the wrong impression. I am a foreign woman living in BsAs. I learned to dance tango here 8 years ago. When I lived in L.A. and danced around the U.S. I found the custom of inviting people to dance absolutely barbaric compared to the Codigo here. In the U.S. men may come to you to ask you to dance and even if you don't want to, you usually accept, because we are trained not to be rude. I used to give many "mercy" dances during any given milonga. And it's true, if a man walks all the way across the floor to offer himself to you for 7 minutes, it's very embarrassing for him to walk back, rejected. Also in the States and in Europe, it is very common for the woman to run around the room, inviting men to dance. I find it difficult to be aggressive in making a man lead me, in fact, I find it impossible. I LOVE the Codigo here! I feel so empowered. Nobody knows if I refuse someone. I give no mercy dances. I dance with whom I want to, to the music I want to. I feel in control: no man can approach my table without permission. There is none of the sitting down with you and monopolizing that often occurs in the U.S. I LOVE IT! And what Janis says is correct: if a man comes up to you here at your table and asks you to dance, he's a bad dancer and often a bottom feeder. Except if he knows you well and is certain that you would like to dance this particular tanda with him. Another thing: in the BsAs milongas, it is not dark. The lights are kept high just for this reason--so we can see across the room. And the "Vamos!" Janis describes, well this is a man you "know", and he knows and you know that this particular tanda is one you both wish to dance together. Believe me, this system is incredibly civilized and fantastic for both men and women. But it comes after 100 years of practice. Not possible in the U.S. of A. At least for a while. Of course I'm speaking about the traditional formal milongas here. There are many places for young people which have no codigo--and where I feel vulnerable and with less control. One night at La Viruta I couldn't get rid of a man who pulled my arm to get me on the floor!! And so I left. Best, Cherie Date: Mon, 9 May 2005 00:45:45 -0400 From: "Ana M. Gonzalez" <ataniche@BELLSOUTH.NET> Subject: Re: Tango codes in Buenos Aires > Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Invitation to the dance > > Hi Anita, > I felt the same thing. But when anyone on this list mentions ethics it > usually brings at least a few blasts of cold wind. I stand ready to > support your position. There is an accepted way of behavior and then > there is an ethical way of behavior. Yes, I could not help noticing that myself. A hug to the wonderful men who write to me privately. I wish Janis could share publicly the charming and clarifying response she wrote to me. Thank you Cherie for a rational and incisive analysis. I have been thinking recently about gender equity and feminism. Gender equity is the next generation of thought stemming from feminism...whose sentiments I think have proven to be somewhat misplaced...and have done a dis-service to women.I am interested in the unique character of both sexes, and in women being able to fulfill their dreams and exercise their capabilities, but I am not interested in women who want to do men one better.(And they have given up a significant part of their uniqueness to do that). It makes some men to babble with fear. There is a big difference between independence and power tripping. I think American women have misunderstood the cultures where men appear to have "control". If that system works properly (and I know that it is not always balanced, and that there are abuses ) as I understand it, the woman is respected in her place, venerated, protected...Why is this a problem? The message I get, is that the world of tango is somehow inhospitable to women. We are not equal partners in the experience, but are at the mercy of the men, prey to the judgement of the milongueros. I read that they "may not dance an entire tanda"..."all eyes are on these men who dance very little but very well". If they are so good at it, you would think that they would love to dance, and would dance alot. Anita Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 14:47:28 +0000 From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Understanding codes Yale Tango Club - Tine writes: "I went there (La glorieta) on my recent trip and was quite taken aback by the MO of inviting. Men will position themselves a meter or two in front of you and if you're not looking in their direction, they will start gesturing wildly and waving at you, even verbally asking if you want to dance." I used to go to La Glorieta de Belgrano, an open dance in the middle of a park situated close to where I live when I am in Buenos Aires. We always followed the milonga codes according to tradition until the place became very popular with tourists. This attracted a different type of dancer, the one with whom no Argentine woman would ever dance . So now he goes to La glorieta places himself head down and wiggles his legs in the air to attract the attention of the tourist lady who unsuspectedly accepts the invitation to discover that he is a very poor dancer. Summary: He does what he does because you are a tourist. You should learn the ritual of 'Cabeceo" properly before you go to Buenos Aires and disregard any invitation that does not follow the codes. Pichi explained this quite clearly. Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:00:57 +0200 From: H�l�ne Eckert <Helene.Eckert@ITU.INT> Subject: Re: Understanding codes I agree about la glorieta... going to BsAs quite often, a year ago I used to love it, and a year later i don't like it anymore, mainly for = the low level of dancing... it's a pity but there is not much we can do about it... still, the place is worth going at least once, because the = natural setting is great ! H�l�ne -----Original Message----- Sent: mardi, 10. mai 2005 16:47 To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: [TANGO-L] Understanding codes Yale Tango Club - Tine writes: "I went there (La glorieta) on my recent trip and was quite taken aback by the MO of inviting. Men will position themselves a meter or two in front of you and if you're not looking in their direction, they will start gesturing wildly and waving at you, even verbally asking if you want to dance." I used to go to La Glorieta de Belgrano, an open dance in the middle of a park situated close to where I live when I am in Buenos Aires. We always followed the milonga codes according to tradition until the place became very popular with tourists. This attracted a different type of dancer, the one with whom no Argentine woman would ever dance . So now he goes to La glorieta places himself head down and wiggles his legs in the air to attract the attention of the tourist lady who unsuspectedly accepts the invitation to discover that he is a very poor dancer. Summary: He does what he does because you are a tourist. You should learn the ritual of 'Cabeceo" properly before you go to Buenos Aires and disregard any invitation that does not follow the codes. Pichi explained this quite clearly. Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 10:26:22 -0500 From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET> Subject: Re: Understanding codes Reading this discussion, one thing worries me. When I bring my group down to Bs.As every year, their main fear is that they will not be able to dance. This has been fostered by some local dancers who had problems when they went down. I ask everyone who is worried about this to go back and read El Turco's comments, and look at the general tone of his writing. Even though this was his first trip to Bs.As, he danced quite a bit and was obviously happy with the dances he received. Your attitude is all-important. If you go down arrogant, or pushy, or worried or hesitant, you probably won't be very fun to dance with. Try being happy and nice. In any case, GO. It can be a tango-changing experience if keep yourself open to it, and let the experience teach you. I understand so much more with every trip. Lois Donnay Minneapolis > I agree about la glorieta... going to BsAs quite often, a > year ago I used to love it, and a year later i don't like it > anymore, mainly for the low level of dancing... it's a pity > but there is not much we can do about it... still, the place > is worth going at least once, because the natural setting is > great ! H�l�ne > > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango > [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Sergio Vandekier > Sent: mardi, 10. mai 2005 16:47 > To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: [TANGO-L] Understanding codes > > > Yale Tango Club - Tine writes: "I went there (La glorieta) > on my recent > trip and was quite taken aback by the MO of inviting. > Men will position themselves a meter or two in front of you > and if you're not looking in their direction, they will start > gesturing wildly and waving at you, even verbally asking if > you want to dance." > > I used to go to La Glorieta de Belgrano, an open dance in the > middle of a park situated close to where I live when I am in > Buenos Aires. We always followed the milonga codes according > to tradition until the place became very popular with > tourists. This attracted a different type of dancer, the one > with whom no Argentine woman would ever dance . > > So now he goes to La glorieta places himself head down and > wiggles his legs in the air to attract the attention of the > tourist lady who unsuspectedly accepts the invitation to > discover that he is a very poor dancer. > > Summary: He does what he does because you are a tourist. You > should learn the ritual of 'Cabeceo" properly before you go > to Buenos Aires and disregard any invitation that does not > follow the codes. Pichi explained this quite clearly. > > > --------- > Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to Tango-A > rather than to Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To > subscribe to Tango-A, send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname > Lastname" to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU. > --------- > > --------- > Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to Tango-A > rather than to Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To > subscribe to Tango-A, send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname > Lastname" to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU. > --------- > > Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 09:13:20 -0700 From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Re: Understanding codes Hi Sergio, I am sorry that the presence of sexy foreign tangueras has inspired some lewd and lecherous fellow Argentines to ruin this tango opportunity for you. Tine Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: Yale Tango Club - Tine writes: "I went there (La glorieta) on my recent trip and was quite taken aback by the MO of inviting. Men will position themselves a meter or two in front of you and if you're not looking in their direction, they will start gesturing wildly and waving at you, even verbally asking if you want to dance." I used to go to La Glorieta de Belgrano, an open dance in the middle of a park situated close to where I live when I am in Buenos Aires. We always followed the milonga codes according to tradition until the place became very popular with tourists. This attracted a different type of dancer, the one with whom no Argentine woman would ever dance . So now he goes to La glorieta places himself head down and wiggles his legs in the air to attract the attention of the tourist lady who unsuspectedly accepts the invitation to discover that he is a very poor dancer. Summary: He does what he does because you are a tourist. You should learn the ritual of 'Cabeceo" properly before you go to Buenos Aires and disregard any invitation that does not follow the codes. Pichi explained this quite clearly. ************************ Tango Club at Yale YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com www.yaletangoclub.org To subscribe to our event emails, please email us or visit our website. To unsubscribe, send us an email, or if you're in a hurry, do it yourself by sending an email to YaleTangoClub-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com. If it doesn't work, just let us know. We're nice people and we really don't want to aggravate anybody. Thanks! Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 18:36:34 +0000 From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Understanding codes II Campanero says : "The "code" of the milongas in BsAs is what it is. It might not be fair, just or politically correct, but it works in those milongas. There is no point in bemoaning those facts or in holding it's participants in contempt. There is nothing wrong with choosing one's dance partner using whatever criteria we want...." Codes exist for a reason. Some people dance Argentine tango as if it was a Fox-trot and then are surprised that there are some different codes of conduct to theirs some place else. Most ballroom dances are done for fun but Tango has other components, of concentration, communication and deep spiritual connection between partners that make this dance a special experience. A man, good dancer knows that unless both members of this equation that we call tango, vehemently wish to dance with each other this connection will not occur and the dance will be a failure. Such a man will do everything in his power to grant the lady he wishes to dance with absolute freedom of choice. He never will place himself directly in front of her, or address her verbally or by gesticulation (unless he knows her very well, and wishes to joke), he will rather stand in front to one or the other side so that she will eventually see him and stare or continue directing her gaze someplace else. A woman, good dancer knows that unless she exercises that absolute freedom to choose the man she wishes to dance with, the resultant tango will be a total failure and will leave her with a sensation of frustration. Summary: for any human interaction such as a casual dance, or a superficial contact, people use some codes of conduct, for other such as love, romance or a especial dance, with deep spiritual connection, on the other hand there are different codes to follow. Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 18:46:46 +0000 From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Understanding codes III Tine says: "Hi Sergio, I am sorry that the presence of sexy foreign tangueras has inspired some lewd and lecherous fellow Argentines to ruin this tango opportunity for you. Tine" The environment at "La Glorieta" was ruined more by the naive, ignorant woman that accepts invitations to dance totally outside any codes of conduct than by the men that such attitude attracts. Those men would not be there if it wasn't for those ladies that come from abroad looking for them. Let me know next time you come to town. PS. please read Pichi's note in detail. Sometimes I think I understand the frustrations of Hector Masseli. :))) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:01:24 +0200 From: Peter Jouliard <Peter_Jouliard@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Understanding codes II if there is a code in place, ok, why not follow it. if i am in spain i speak spanish. makes sense. but, what is wrong if a man states his wish to dance with a women polity with words? and what is so difficult for her to decline the offer. If you accept that 2 people dance with each other because both have a reason to do it, it seems natural that there are reasons that one of them may not accept an offer. I know, that is not real life. there, we have questions of "honour", "reject", etc. If you have other interest than just dancing with another person (to be seen with a good dancer/to proof yourself, to protect your ego, you name it) then of course, all kinds of problematic interactions arise. Then you define and defend tango and related behaviour as you see it, etc. Wouldn't it be nice if we (tango dancers) could just meet each other in our wish to dance and accept and respect us. then we do not need codes to regulate behaviour because it will be "regulated" by the respect for each other. peter Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:12:37 -0400 From: "Steininger, Francine" <FSteininger@IIE.ORG> Subject: Re: Understanding codes II Well, that would be great... but when someone asks you when you're not looking at them, or comes up from behind and taps you on the shoulder, = (the "sneak up on you apprpoach") etc, its not always easy to say no, particularly if you like the person or just know he's a nice guy. And = if you do, it could be a variety of reasons (tired, you just don't want to dance with him that night, or he had a pungent dinner (!), or you = just don't connect with him and find him difficult to follow, or because you're waiting for someone else to get off the floor for the last = dance), or whatever, you risk "alienating" him or getting him upset (which is unpleasant for the follower as well)... the idea of being able = to have a signal for mutually understanding eachother prior to the request, is a great one - both for the woman (because she has more = control over her choice, and doesn't have to reject) and for the man - since he doesn't have to deal directly with rejection. my 2c... -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:01 PM To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Understanding codes II if there is a code in place, ok, why not follow it. if i am in spain i speak spanish. makes sense. but, what is wrong if a man states his wish to dance with a women polity with words? and what is so difficult for her to decline the offer. If you accept that 2 people dance with each other because both have a reason to do it, it seems natural that there are reasons that one of them may not accept an offer. I know, that is not real life. there, we have questions of "honour", "reject", etc. If you have other interest than just dancing with another person (to be seen with a good dancer/to proof yourself, to protect your ego, you name it) then of course, all kinds of problematic interactions arise. Then you define and defend tango and related behaviour as you see it, etc. Wouldn't it be nice if we (tango dancers) could just meet each other in our wish to dance and accept and respect us. then we do not need codes to regulate behaviour because it will be "regulated" by the respect for each other. peter Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:29:09 +0200 From: Peter Jouliard <Peter_Jouliard@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Understanding codes II Hi francine "the idea of being able to have a signal for mutually understanding each other prior to the request, is a great one - both for the woman (because she has more control over her choice, and doesn't have to reject) and for the man - since he doesn't have to deal directly with rejection." if i do not want to invite you, you will not signal that you do not want to accept. if i signal that i do want and you appear not to see it or do not accept the invitation, then it is a rejection! So she has the same control if she does it with a code or if she simply says it gently. What changes is, that one can play "having not seen the signal" so the person "signaling" may play not having sent it. it is all about protecting your ego, not loosing face. And yes that is that is a big deal in real life and so in tango. peter Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:44:16 +0200 From: Peter Jouliard <Peter_Jouliard@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: codes and making rejection easier there are a lot of reasons a women might reject to dance with me, that have nothing to do with me. She is tired, she is waiting for her prefered dancer, she doesn't like the music, etc. there are also a lot of reasons related to me. she doesn't like my style of dancing, she doesn't like my skill level, she thinks i am to sweaty or to old or to ugly. or she simply doesn't like me, can't maybe even tell the reason. if i, as a leader who invites, can't accept these facts of life, but have to get angry with the women, or myself, or tango or society, then i'd better start collecting stamps. no code will help me. peter Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:59:02 -0400 From: "Steininger, Francine" <FSteininger@IIE.ORG> Subject: Re: Understanding codes II Yes, I suppose it's the subtlety of the thing that makes a difference... having said that - its all quite nuanced, and I'm sure in different = environments the codes evolve to meet the way the tango evolves in that city or culture... and of course, dealing with people you know is = different from those you don't. In the end I think the important thing is to pay attention to your partner (this goes for both women and men, = as women also ask here...) and really see if they seem to enjoy dancing with you. Being observant and sensitive to your partners, and the code = of the group you are with, and being willing to adapt, is probably the best way to go... -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 3:29 PM To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Understanding codes II Hi francine "the idea of being able to have a signal for mutually understanding each other prior to the request, is a great one - both for the woman (because she has more control over her choice, and doesn't have to reject) and for the man - since he doesn't have to deal directly with rejection." if i do not want to invite you, you will not signal that you do not want to accept. if i signal that i do want and you appear not to see it or do not accept the invitation, then it is a rejection! So she has the same control if she does it with a code or if she simply says it gently. What changes is, that one can play "having not seen the signal" so the person "signaling" may play not having sent it. it is all about protecting your ego, not loosing face. And yes that is that is a big deal in real life and so in tango. peter Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:14:47 -0400 From: Nitin Kibe <nitinkibe@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Understanding codes II >From: Peter Jouliard <Peter_Jouliard@HOTMAIL.COM> >Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 21:01:24 +0200 > >but, what is wrong if a man states his wish to dance with a women polity >with words? and what is so difficult for her to decline the offer. If you >accept that 2 people dance with each other because both have a reason to do >it, it seems natural that there are reasons that one of them may not accept >an offer. I know, that is not real life. there, we have questions of >"honour", >"reject", etc. > In terms of accept/reject, tango is perhaps less simple than life, where you know more about the other party. For example, would you refuse a not so good dancer if you knew the person was a nobelist, a billionaire (!!), head of state, etc.? Precisely because in most milongas people know little more about each other than what is visible, namely physical attributes and dance skills, rejection is more "personal", more tied up with "honour" etc. I would also like to mention symmetry between the capital spent in asking and the effort spent in rejecting. Most asymmetric scenario: Man makes long lonely visible walk across floor, woman rejects brusquely in a nanosecond. Same outcome but better symmetry and so less bad feeling: woman spends more time, softens the blow with smiles, small talk, lets him down gently, etc etc. Cabeceo has good symmetry: neither party spends much capital/effort, a glance, raised eyebrow from the one; a slight yes/no nod from the other; no particularly hard feelings, no visibly bruised ego, la milonga continua. Good wishes to all. NK Wash DC Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:13:23 -0600 From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET> Subject: Re: Understanding codes II Hi, Sergio: >Most ballroom dances are done for fun but Tango has other components, of concentration, communication and deep spiritual connection between partners that make this dance a special experience.< Why spiritual? According to Maria Nieves for her Tango is the closest to having sex (a un polvo) without the sexual contact. Excuse my choice of words, but I think Tango can be many things to make it cut and dried. Best regards, Bruno Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:08:48 -0500 From: "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM> Subject: Re: Tango Codes as Traffic Rules Sergio Vandekier wrote: > I think the same as Oleh and El Turco that there is no conflict what > so ever > :))). > > We all agree that there are different tango styles that should be > cultivated > and practiced the problem is the where and the when. I have a hard time believing that the codes dictate how people dance. The codes dictate that you avoid running into people. The codes are about traffic management. Everyone follows the rules, then collisions are minimized. It's almost like driving a car: -- if you can go forward, you go forward -- don't arbitrarily stop and put your car in reverse -- check your blind spot before you change lanes -- don't drive on the wrong side of the road All that said, I liked Sean's previous post about crowding backsteppers and learning the change of front. It's like tapping your brakes for a tailgater. One other point I haven't seen raised in this discussion: figures more than 2 or 3 steps long have multiple exits at every intermediate point before the final step. Most of the time, I don't see teachers showing students where and how to bail out of figures. Even so, you can learn a lot exploring your options. -- Christopher L. Everett Chief Technology Officer www.medbanner.com MedBanner, Inc. www.physemp.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 13:51:58 -0300 From: "Janis Kenyon" <jantango@feedback.net.ar> Subject: [Tango-L] Milonga Codes To: <Tango-L@MIT.EDU> I am a regular viewer of Codigos de Milongas, a new program on Solo Tango which follows young men at home to the milonga with a commentary by men who have danced tango for many years. Program #2 presented Damian (23) who spoke about taking many classes and then privates to learn. He learns the hard way when he approaches a girl at her table in Plaza Bohemia. She refused him, so he went to ask another girl who accepted. Carlos Matera (organizer of Sunderland) was speechless when he saw Damian wearing jeans to a milonga. Matera wasn't in agreement with anything Damian did or said. Program #3 had Jonathan (21) showing his white shirt and jacket, but putting on a black t-shirt and pants. He talked about the importance of the codes, but complained about getting excuses when girls didn't want to dance with him. He carried his shoes in a bag, which never existed when Roberto Dentone was young, who commented "muy loco." Jonathan went to invite a girl to dance as soon as the guy at her table went to the men's room. After he danced with the girl, Roberto commented, "Tango is an embrace. He broke the embrace. He needs to keep his head straight to be more elegant." Program #4 showed Gaspar (20) wearing a t-shirt, pants, and sneakers. Salvador A. Molinari (Tito) pointed out that he's wearing comfortable clothing, but if a woman spends an hour doing her hair, makeup and getting dressed to dance, the least a man can do is to wear good shoes. Tito noted that he didn't bother to use deodorant or cologne. Gaspar went to La Viruta and approached a girl at her table. Tito remarked that this obligates a woman when she might have a commitment with someone else. Program #5 has Hernan (24) calling Gricel for a reservation on a Friday night. He wears a t-shirt and sneakers, so he feels out of place entering Gricel where all the men are wearing suits. He walks around looking for someone close to his age and finds a table nearby. He's the first one to use a head movement to invite a young woman. In his critique, Julio Cesar Rodriguez says sneakers are for the gimnasium, shoes are for the dance salon. In Program #6, Hugo (28) goes to Villa Malcolm where he invites a woman to dance before he has seen her dancing. He approaches her table and motions with his arm to invite her; she accepts because she has been looking at him since he sat down. He soon realizes that she isn't at his level, but makes the best of it. Oscar Steimez predicts that he won't want to dance with her again; later Hugo confirms this. I would like to see this program follow a real milonguero at home and at the milonga. New dancers could benefit from their many years of experience. Saturdays at 5:00pm; Mondays at 10:00pm Solo Tango TV - Canal 7 Cablevision www.tangocity.com Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 18:04:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Rick Jones <rwjones52@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga Codes During a recent three-week trip to Buenos Aires, I was very surprised at the number of people wearing blue jeans (and even sneakers) at evening milongas. It certainly cut into any feeling of elegance that the ladies created with their wonderful evening dress and that some of the guys did with their equally elegant attire. I would imagine that the responsibility for this trend lies squarely with the organizers. I would find it hard to believe that they can't set some sort of dress code for their milongas. Simple: no blue jeans, no sneakers, no whatever. If the organizers are letting this type of dress in, then there's no real incentive for anyone to dress differently. Rick Jones Washington DC Janis Kenyon <jantango@feedback.net.ar> wrote: I am a regular viewer of Codigos de Milongas, a new program on Solo Tango which follows young men at home to the milonga with a commentary by men who have danced tango for many years. Carlos Matera (organizer of Sunderland) was speechless when he saw Damian wearing jeans to a milonga...Program #4 showed Gaspar (20) wearing a t-shirt, pants, and sneakers...Program #5 has Hernan (24) calling Gricel for a reservation on a Friday night. He wears a t-shirt and sneakers... Date: Mon, 1 May 2006 19:24:15 -0600 From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga Codes Wait a minute. Which evening milongas were you at? I went to Consagrados, Bauen, Correo Viejo, Canning, Ideal (de la turca), El Beso (late-evening). At the afternoon and evening milongas I went to, almost everyone wore at least "office casual". I know the secretaries get off work and show up at 5:30 or 6:00. The men didn't always wear jackets. But, I never saw many blue jeans. Also the age range for the women ran 40 - 60. For the men 50 - 70. Maybe you attended younger milongas? On May 1, 2006, at 7:04 PM, Rick Jones wrote: > During a recent three-week trip to Buenos Aires, I was very > surprised at the number of people wearing blue jeans (and even > sneakers) at evening milongas. It certainly cut into any feeling > of elegance that the ladies created with their wonderful evening > dress and that some of the guys did with their equally elegant attire. > > I would imagine that the responsibility for this trend lies > squarely with the organizers. I would find it hard to believe that > they can't set some sort of dress code for their milongas. Simple: > no blue jeans, no sneakers, no whatever. > > If the organizers are letting this type of dress in, then there's > no real incentive for anyone to dress differently. > > Rick Jones > Washington DC Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 14:35:13 EDT From: TangoSherwin@aol.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Milonga Codes They were probably "youngsters" from the U.S. Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2006 18:49:23 -0300 From: "Janis Kenyon" <jantango@feedback.net.ar> Subject: [Tango-L] Women inviting men to dance and the milonga codes To: "Tango-L" <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU> The tradition in the milongas is for the man to invite a woman to dance with the movement of the head or lips. I wasn't aware that a place exists in Buenos Aires where the women do all the inviting until I viewed the recent program of Codigos de Milongas on Solo Tango (Sat 5pm, Mon 10pm, Wed 5pm). In this recent edition, milonguera Elba Biscay commented on a young woman's conduct in relation to the milonga codes as she knows them. Elba danced with Osvaldo Centeno in the finals of the Campeonato Mundial in August 2005. She pointed out that one has to like tango before you learn to dance it. She said, there are no men [with whom to dance these days]. The program followed 22-year-old Constanza as she prepared to dance at La Fiesta del Reves. She does all the inviting and dances with three men. On the last Tuesday of the month, women pay the 6 peso admission, but men get in free. Women do all the inviting. This may be appealing to those who aren't adept at using the cabeceo. I spoke with the organizer who told me they're having a Fiesta del reves tonight at Cabildo 3246 in Nunez from 10:30-2:00. Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:01:01 -0700 From: "David Hodgson" <DHodgson@TangoLabyrinth.com> Subject: [Tango-L] Argentine Tango codes, a meditation.. Hello all: I thought I would start off the new year with some thoughts that might be of interest to some, a passing fancy to many and I am sure fodder for a few. Recently there was a little talk about Cebeceo in our community and got me to thinking about ?The codes? in tango. I have only made a few changes that would only pertain to the community I dance in. the rest is really intended for Argentine Tango as a whole. Hope it is of some benefit to someone: Martin wrote something about Cebeceo, which is really great and hits the nail on the head. He also mentioned about the codes. I believe a little clarification and perspective on the codes needs to be mentioned, and I feel I can finally talk about now. I am going to guess most of people reading this list were introduced to the codes when they started tango. The cebeceo being one expression of these codes. The conflict and much confusion I see going around is that the codes we talk about with in Argentine Tango really do not exclusively exist with in the tango we all love, revel in, get frustrated with, hate and express. Nor just in the dance halls or floors where we share together. The codes exist everywhere in the world each of us lives in. The clerk checking out your groceries, or janitor. Your boss, and peers. Your husband or wife, partner, lover/s. Family, friends and loved ones. The stranger walking down the street, or standing next to in line at the movies, or at the next table in the restaurant. Perhaps part of a chosen spiritual path. Perhaps the sensual affections from a hot gal, getting hit on by a hot guy or even a lap dance >from a great stripper. Yes this extends to us on the dance floor and no one is really exempt. The confusion comes in where we think the codes begin and end in BSAS. They don?t. The codes that are talked about (or not talked about) in the milongas of BSAS are a dialect of the codes we experience in our everyday life. Are they important, yes extremely. Because the particular dialect of codes that exist in the milongas of BSAS are the model of the codes we develop for our selves with in our own expression of this dance. I am not Argentine nor was I raised there, so I do not understand a lot of the subtle details of the dialect of the codes down there. I was born and raised here in the US. I chose to live a different life than most of the people I see around me, which has often left me feeling like a stranger in my own home country, except for a few places. In these places I have been, the codes do not manifest them selves from a place of assumption (your codes are the same as everybody else?s. ?Egalitarian?). A few codes may be handed to you, for the most part you seek them out, discover, learn and integrate. In order for this to work one must develop their own codes and have this work with the rest of the dance hall. Which means that someone has to take it upon them selves to be aware of them selves and the world, make mistakes, get feedback from other people. Yes, also be open to receive a dance and open to ask for a dance. If there is rejection to a request, it is not personal, it is just a tanda. I did spend some time in BSAS, not as a tourist but for other reasons. Used the codes I?ve integrated long before I found tango (and continue to refine), that work in other places where I have earned my way, and had no problems in the milongas and on the streets. Did not impose, just walked in as my self, with what I know, paid attention to the space where I was, danced well, and made sure to tip the server or barkeep. Had no problems getting dances from most of the women (many were local), helped a few women start getting dances from the locals by showing her off. Yes it does help that I dance well, I also work my ass off to be good. If someone wants to adopt a few things from The Argentine dialect into their own codes, this is great (refinement of your own codes). Or perhaps someone takes up the practice of integrating the culture and lives it all the time for a while, outstanding (they will have a lot to share when the project is complete). If someone wants to take this on as a research project, fabulous (Please teach what you learned). I believe the knee jerk reaction going on is (from some of the Argentines I have talked with and some of the people pulling a sales job touting the Argentine way). Is about Argentine Tango loosing its heart or the real meaty, juicy, sublime experience we all crave, or even loosing contact with it?s culture. That is up to the people who dance Tango. If we rely on the formula of steps, or imposing that walking is the only way, or continue to prop ?Connection? on a pedestal. Then yes, the Tango we love will become another ballroom dance. Flaccid. If we take this next year and developed what our expression is as a community, (individually and as a whole), find our own voice and style. Not being right but also tossing in an embellishment and style of arrogance. Men and Women alike. We have a good community, teachers, people and dancers. >>From my eye and experience our community has the potential, but also has a lot to learn, experience and integrate. This is just a next step in the evolution with in our community (please fell free to add any community name in here). For the Leads: If you want to tout what you got (Lies!! like your foot work). I want to see what you got out there on the dance floor and I want to see this in the face and eyes of the Follow (Nuff said). For the Follows: I don?t just want to see how flashy the adornment you can do are (boring). I want to see that you are clearly present with the Lead, you have accepted a dance from. That your embellishment is a beautiful accent to the expression of your individual voice (because there are a few of us that are listening to this when we lead you). Some people are a part of Tango for fun and a nice social dance only. Thank you!! Others are here for different reasons. Thank you!! There is room and expression for everyone. Each dancing as individuals, in an embrace with another, and moving as a whole on the entire floor. Regardless if it is in Portland, San Francisco, Seattle, New York, Denver, London, Tokyo, Berlin, etc. Or even the many salons of BSAS. When we visit places they will say ?Wow, that is dance style of city your from. Show me something of your style and I will show you something of my own style?. Or possibly ?Buddy, that sucks, show me that step again and will show you a different step?. If Argentine Tango is to remain out of the realm of ballroom, then this is one way how to keep it living and breathing, out of many possibilities. As far as Argentine Tango forgetting where it came from. I like to think of this Tango as a connection with a Lover you can never forget. It marks you for your life time, and no matter where you go there is a thread that is expressed through this mark. It makes us who we are. Also for us who dance tango, know we can integrate and not hide this thread. Argentine Tango must travel away from BSAS for a time, but will never forget and will return with a new expression. As Tango will do with each of us. Now this people,, are the codes and that is also sexy. I also believe (along with the above) that it is equally true the Argentines will not let any one else forget where Argentine tango came from either. Hope everyone is having fun and Happy New Year!!!! David Hodgson No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.17.13/1207 - Release Date: 1/2/2008 11:29 AM Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:10:18 +0000 From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> Subject: [Tango-L] Gricel - Codes To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu> Pat reports a fight she observed at Gricel and adds "I feel this unusual incident didn't reflect so much on Gricel, because it was such an exception to the rule, but simply illustrated the fact that Porte?os are fallible human beings, too." 1- "This unusual incident",...It should be very unusual as it goes against one of our traditions, when there is a need for discussion, an argument or a fight we normally go "outside", we do not do it in front of everyone else. Alcohol drinking frequently plays a role in these cases. 2- "I feel this unusual incident didn't reflect so much on Gricel," I totally agree with this, my impression, not knowing about that particular incident, is that (most likely) the fight was not originated by something related to tango dancing or problems of navigation (this would be rather absurd). The milonga provides the space where the traditional man/woman role is preserved. Even when in "real" life this is no longer the case. The man is always in charge, he takes the indicative, he makes the decisions, no woman would attempt to pay for anything in the presence of a man, he always pays,etc, etc. Both women and men preserve (in public) the masculine image of the man. Nothing is more threatening than to disrespect someone's masculinity and even worse due to women. Nobody interferes with what seems to be a relationship between a man and a woman. That is the reason nobody will ask you to dance if you are perceived to be "even slightly" interested in a particular person. Recently while I was in Mar del Plata, I danced with a lady psychologist that goes to the milongas very frequently, since she is one of the best dancers everybody asks her to dance, this has been so for years. After a few dances I asked her if I could sit at her table. I did that for a couple of milongas on different days, we sat together and danced together. Then I got a flu and I did not go dancing for a whole week. She went to the usual milongas for that week but nobody asked her to dance, even when she was alone. There are many codes that we follow unconsciously, for example respecting the dancing floor: We do not cross the dancing floor even when it is empty, when moving from place to place we follow the periphery of the floor. We do not stand in the middle of the floor eating or drinking, even if it is empty between tandas, etc.. My impression is that arguments like the one described (most likely) originated in a grudge lasting for some time and due to someone disrespecting the traditional codes that exist aat the milongas. There has been some degree of confusion in the last few years due to a big influx of tango tourists that come and do not know the traditional codes. This caused changes in the Argentine dancer behavior that from time to time can cause problems among themselves. Finally, as Pat says "porte?os are fallible human beings, too." I entirely agree, being a porte?o, and probably more so than people from other latitudes. Best regards, Sergio Windows Live? SkyDrive?: Get 25 GB of free online storage. https://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_042009 Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 13:56:44 +0930 From: "Pat Petronio" <petronio@adam.com.au> Subject: [Tango-L] Gricel - codes To: <tango-l@mit.edu> I think Sergio has hit the nail right on the head with his perceptive comment. The incident I described (by the way, which took place Oct 2007, not last year) seemed to be very much related to male - female relationships, fueled by some alcohol. Navigational problems or lack of skill on the dance-floor were irrelevant. Clearly the tension which erupted got the better of the men involved. One question though: it certainly surprised me and my partner that the organisers of the milonga did not appear to take firm action eg. by asking the men to leave the venue for that night. The seething anger (one of the men was sitting at a table nearby us) was quite disturbing to all around. Would it be seen as too heavy-handed for the organisers to take the action which I described? Regards, Patricia Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:58:28 +0000 From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> Subject: [Tango-L] Traduction tango codes To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu> Dear friends this work on "Milonga codes" written in French by Frederic Megret Mc Gill University, has over 35 pages. I translated page 12 that refers to the subject we were disussing. When I finish reading the original I might add to this initial translation. Requirement for a certain individual behavior: (page 11-12) Beyond the demand that you should know the dance, there are unwritten milonga codes, a call to a certain personal behavior, that one could describe as (more or less) " to know one's place"; for instance, as an example, never dance at a milonga anything that you do not know perfectly well. One should have a feeling of the role one is to play. In this respect there is no place for an excess of narcissism or of humility. It is bad manners for instance to dance to attract attention, to show off; or even worse to look at oneself dancing in the mirror. This type of behavior is considered to be vulgar, but it will also, eventually damage the reputation of your partner. It shows lack of respect for a certain ethic tanguera which is minimalist. The "best" is the enemy of the "good". In this respect here one is situated at the opposite extreme of other social or sport dances and their ethics of competitiveness and performance. Even if the elements of competition can be latent in tango, they must remain secondary in order not to affect the spirit of the milonga. A good dancer will know how to find an equilibrium between a modest tango and certain moments of shine the same as the music itself has slow and dynamic periods. The dancing floor is not a stage, and those that are sitting are not the public, it is important to dance first for your partner and eventually and in second place for the outside; in third place for oneself. To forget oneself is the best road to tango extasis. On the other hand it is important to consider oneself as a dancer. It is not useful or appropriate, for instance to apologize after each mistake. This turns the dance into an unpleasant experience. When you denigrate yourself again and again this translates into lack of confidence, something that is incompatible with dancing tango. Turning to another subject, beyond self complacency or morality, Milonga defines its subject not as a client or consumer but as somebody we could call a citizen milonguero. It is expected that not only he will not be an "offender" but that he will provide his stone to the edifice of the milonga. In summary what is demanded from a milonguero, up to here, other than the "rituals of preparation"(1) is to minimally know how to dance and not to be presumptuous. Best regards, Sergio (1) rituals of Preparation for the milonga is another chapter. New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. https://www.microsoft.com/windows/pc-scout/default.aspx?CBID=wl&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_pcscout:102009 Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:48:42 -0700 (PDT) From: randy cook <randycook95476@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Traduction tango codes To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu> Dear "Citizen Milongueros," I hear echoes of the Paris Commune of 1871 in the work of this Frederic Megret. It isn't merely an essay on codes of the milonga, but of the role of the citizen in a ideal democratic society. Perhaps this is what we should aspire to be, both on and off the dance floor! Many thanks, Randy Cook --- On Sun, 10/25/09, Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> wrote: > From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> > Subject: [Tango-L] Traduction tango codes > To: "Tango-L List" <tango-l@mit.edu> > Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 4:58 PM > > Dear friends this work on "Milonga codes" written in French > by Frederic Megret > Mc Gill University, has over 35 pages. I translated page 12 > that refers to the subject we were disussing. >? > When I finish reading the original I might add to this > initial translation. >? >? > Requirement for a certain individual behavior: (page > 11-12) >? > Beyond the demand that you should know the dance, there are > unwritten milonga codes, a call to a certain personal > behavior, that one could describe as (more or less) " to > know one's place"; for instance, as an example, never dance > at a milonga anything that you do not know perfectly well. >? > One should have a feeling of the role one is to play. In > this respect there is no place for an excess of narcissism > or of humility. >? > It is bad manners for instance to dance to attract > attention, to show off; or even worse to look at oneself > dancing in the mirror. This type of behavior is? > considered to be vulgar, but it will also, eventually damage > the reputation of your partner. It shows lack of respect for > a certain ethic tanguera which is minimalist. >? > The "best" is the enemy of the "good". In this respect here > one is situated at the opposite extreme of other social or > sport dances and their ethics of competitiveness and > performance. >? > Even if the elements of competition can be latent in tango, > they must remain secondary in order not to affect the spirit > of the milonga. >? > A good dancer will know how to find an equilibrium between > a modest tango and certain moments of shine the same as the > music itself has slow and dynamic periods. >? > The dancing floor is not a stage, and those that are > sitting are not the public, it is important to dance first > for your partner and eventually and in second place for the > outside; in third place for oneself. >? > To forget oneself is the best road to tango extasis. >? > On the other hand it is important to consider oneself as a > dancer. It is not useful or appropriate, for instance to > apologize after each mistake. >? > This turns the dance into an unpleasant experience. >? > When you denigrate yourself again and again this translates > into lack of confidence, something that is incompatible with > dancing tango. >? > Turning to another subject, beyond self complacency or > morality, Milonga defines its subject not as a client or > consumer but as somebody we could call a citizen > milonguero. >? > It is expected that not only he will not be an "offender" > but that he will provide his stone to the edifice of the > milonga. >? > In summary what is demanded from a milonguero, up to here, > other than the "rituals of preparation"(1) is to? > minimally know how to dance and not to be presumptuous. >? > Best regards, Sergio >? > (1) rituals of Preparation for the milonga is another > chapter. > ? ??? > ???????? > ?????? ??? > ? > New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more. > https://www.microsoft.com/windows/pc-scout/default.aspx?CBID=wl&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_pcscout:102009 > Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 08:07:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@yahoo.com.ar> Subject: [Tango-L] french written paper on milonga codes To: tango-l@mit.edu I have been reading the paper that Andy Ungureanu mentioned in his previous post. This paper is an annalysis of the milonga codes, as a kind of "non written codes for the everyday life" , the kind of legal contract we called here in Buenos Aires " ad hoc" , for instance, when taking a bus or a taxi cab, just by paying the ticket or the fare , there is a tacit agreement within the passenger and the driver, that in case of accident, can be used as ground for a legal claim. A non written contract. This french paper is not bad , I found it amusing . On the core of the work, it is not about milonga codes on itself, but as a reference for this author, to explain how non written codes, within a legal frame , are being done.. The sources quotes for non written legal codes , are good, some legal works of Jutras, Reisman and Mac Donald, concerning this subject of non written contracts in the everyday life. I will translate a part of the paper, that i found interesting , on page 3. I am not deeply fluent in french language, but like to read french authors, and this writer of the paper, Fredric Megret, from University Mc Gill from Canada, writes in plain french ( not dialect ) , is understandable. I am trying to follow his comments, as best as possible alberto " Ours, will be an attempt to define the essential structure of the Milonga Codes, as a system of laws or reulgations, to be able to appreciate the value of its origin and purpose. With that aim, we will try to understand the characteristics of the normative system "milonga" and the inherent characteristics related to tango as a dance on itself, so to be able to annalyze furthermore the nature of the social regulations an the role of normatives, based on an agenda of research consisting in an understanding of , how instituzionalized legal orders and everyday life can be understood in each other?s terms (Jutras ,2001, Legal dimensions of everyday life, p.51). As a system of laws, the Milonga codes are an attempt to answer a regulation dilemma. A regulation dilemma is a dilemma born out from the need to regulate a social order. It consists in a knowledge an choose on what kind of values, what kind of purposes, and into what extent , such a regulation code would have to operate. The codes , are conceived to be comprehensive of the particularities of the specific environment where they apply , that who is going to be regulated. The milonga , as a site of regulation , presents many specific aspects. At the same time, the milonga reveals at the same time, the dance and the socialization. The tango rioplatense, is different from the stage tango due to their social aspect; and also it is different for the particularities of the dance, from a simple social gathering. In other words, the tango is here , more than a certain name to a cultural reference, but a kind of tango atmosphere where the tango is danced in a discreet fashion ( in a kind of environment of folklore expression) ,which is an integer part of social dance.. What is the dilemma for the regulation or codes for milonga ? It is more than one dilemma , to be a manifold set of dilemmas, that could be sinthetized as follows: - How can a fairly large number of people , dance in a limited space, allowing the development of intimacy, the co living and the keeping of forms of dance in harmony ? - How can be done an inner area in an social universe that is motioned by individualities in contradiction, such as egoism ,the wanting for encounter, the competence, love, jealousy, erotic , ambition, oniric dreams and sensuality ? - How is it possible to do, with a social scope that is remarcable wide due to the diversity of ages , social position and cultural origins ? - How is it possible, at last, to make perdurable a social phenomenon that has to adapt itself in order not to be a fossile / elephant cemetery , being at the same time , persisting alongside the evolving time line, without loosing their original authenticity ? The answer to all this questions is the purpose of milonga codes , a rich heritage of regulations, transmitted from generation to generation, maybe not totally clear , maybe barroque , and generally , difficult to be revealed and to access. Yahoo! Cocina Encontra las mejores recetas con Yahoo! Cocina. Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:26:33 +0000 From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> Subject: [Tango-L] Translation Codes II To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu> La Piste (The dancing floor) page 19. For instance, the rule that stipulates that one should dance counter clock wise (which undoubtedly expresses a metaphoric wish to resist the pass of time till late at night) is equivalent to the rule that one should drive on the right side of a road. La pista (dancing floor) is a highway with many lanes (in general three) divided by yellow lines. There are different opinions with respect to passing rules: about overtaking in general or passing during a change of direction of the line of dance, by some, others treat the "yellow line" with more flexibility mostly when dealing with couples that are particularly slow dancers. It is, on the other hand, poor manners to overtake during traffic jams, this naturally should cause slowing down of the line of dance. Passing on the right side, blind point for the leader, is absolutely forbidden, as such action can easily end up with an accident including the tables as well. In case you arrive late to the dancing floor, the priority is for the couples that are already dancing. Saludos, Sergio La piste Par e emple, la norme selon laquelle l?on danse dans le sens con raire au aiguilles d?une mon re (laquelle e prime sans dou e une volon ? m? aphorique de r?sis er au emps jusque ard dans la nui ), es l??quivalen de la r?gle qui veu que l?on roule ? droi e sur une rou e. La pis e es une rou e ? plusieurs voies (g?n?ralemen rois) s?par?es par des lignes jaunes. Les avis divergen quan au condi ions de d?passemen : apparen ? ? un d?passemen en c? e ou dans un virage par cer ains, d?au res in erpr? en avec plus de fle ibili ? la ligne jaune lorsque confron ?s ? des couples consid?r?s comme par iculi?remen len s ; il es en revanche de mauvais on de en er des d?passemen s en si ua ion d?embou eillage, ce qui ne peu que con ribuer au ralen issemen s ; e les d?passemen s par la droi e, angle mor du meneur, son par iculi?remen proscri s, d?au an qu?ils peuven ais?men se solder par un acciden de able. En cas d?arriv? ardive, la priori ? es au couples d?j? engag?s sur la pis e. Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow! https://microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/default-ga.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:102009 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 17:10:37 +0000 From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> Subject: [Tango-L] Translation Codes III To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu> Navigation It is agreed that everyone will adjust his figures to the available space. The same as nobody would drive over 70 miles/h on a narrow country side road. The authorized speed is variable but under no circumstance it should be faster than the music itself. Everyone should be master of his own speed; this means that you should be able to slow down or even stop if necessary, independently of the stage of the complex figure you might have been executing. It is not advisable to stop for long periods in the middle of the floor, when you have green light and there are many couples behind you waiting. Remember that tango is a progressive dance, therefore try to avoid stationary positions not justified by the music, which could lead you and others into a condition of somnolence. In case of distress, loss of orientation or a discussion that causes the couple to stop dancing, it is strongly advisable to move out of the line in order not to disturb the circulation. On the other hand it is bad manners to object to the pause of a couple when such a pause is justified by the music. This behavior would be equivalent to press the horn because a car in front of you stopped at the red light. Saludos, Sergio PS. I do not you, but I find all this humorous as well as precise. :)) Windows 7: I wanted more reliable, now it's more reliable. Wow! https://microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/default-ga.aspx?h=myidea?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_myidea:102009 Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:42:34 -0700 From: Huck Kennedy <tempehuck@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Translation Codes II To: tango-l@mit.edu <ecf43f370910261642v5bdb2065i80f267fc27190c86@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:26 AM, Sergio Vandekier < sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Passing on the right side, blind point for the leader, is absolutely > forbidden, as such action can easily end up with an accident including the > tables as well. > Thanks, Sergio. I'd like to tattoo that on the foreheads of some people who are habitual offenders so they'd be reminded everytime they looked in the mirror. Huck Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 04:05:22 +0000 From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> Subject: [Tango-L] Translation Milonga Codes IV To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu> Page 31 - Frederic Megret - Mc Gill University - Los c?digos milongueros forman parte de la cultura tanguera. Y si contin?a el proceso de licuaci?n de las convenciones que dan encanto y marco al baile, estaremos mutilando un legado del cual muchos argentinos estamos orgullosos . (The Milonga Codes are part of the Tango Culture. Should the process of dilution of the conventions that frame and give charm to the dance continue, we will be mutilating a legacy of which many Argentines are proud of). The Milonga Codes have a function of identification and filtration or screening between the inside and the outside of the tango scene. They are markers for those that know them, and mysterious for those from the outside world (that would have a lot to do before it could find any logic). It comes to mind the scene in the movie "Eyes wide shut" in which Tom Cruise enters a mansion where a clandestine orgy is taking place, he is unaware that he provided the wrong password at the entrance and that this has marked him from the beginning. The transgressor ignores that he was identified as an intruder from the start. Certain rules are never explained, they become true codes in the sense that only a very attentive observation of customs in force at the milongas can allow elucidation. Milonga codes are then at the same time elements of clarity for the inside and of opacity for the outside, they create the certitude of the "otherness" of tango and make the tango community something totally separated and different from the rest of society. Best regards, Sergio Le Code des milongas e son ? ude posen ?galemen la ques ion des rappor s du collec if au par iculier e inversemen . En r?ali ?, on peu souligner une cer aine priori ? on ologique e a iologique du g?n?ral sur le par iculier, du collec if sur le couple, e du couple sur l?individu. Le social pr?c?de le couple, au sens o? le ango n?a jamais e is ? e ne pourrai e is er au remen que socialemen , de la m?me mani?re que le couple domine l?individuel, au sens o? il es presque absurde d?imaginer un ango dans? seul. En ermes norma ifs, l?on peu faire ou ce que l?on veu Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. https://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009 Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 03:56:03 +1100 From: tony parkes <macromagix@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Translation Codes II To: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>, tango-l <c63a5fe70910260956u764ea1f6i4ec3e92f7ea14cca@mail.gmail.com> hola sergio i felt empathy with all your points save the last. my experience here in bs.as is that after the tanda has started, couples entering the floor tend to force their way into the line of dance and from that i felt the codigo was that couples already on the floor were obliged to allow latecomers in. for example, dance on the spot rather than moving forward and colliding with the newcomers. interesting > In case you arrive late to the dancing floor, the priority is for the couples that are already dancing. > > Saludos, Sergio Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:00:55 +1000 From: Tango22 <tango22@gmail.com> Subject: [Tango-L] Translation Codes II To: tango-L@mit.edu Tony Parkes wrote..... my experience herein bs.as is that after the tanda has started, couples entering thefloor tend to force their way into the line of dance and from that i felt the codigo was that couples already on the floor were obliged to allow latecomers in. Perhaps there are some cultural differences here too. In Aus. it was (is) the custom to invite a lady to dance at the table and to escort her, from behind, to the floor. This leads to couples walking to a spot on the floor without a lot of regard for the flow, especially disruptive in a crowded floor. We suggest dancers enter the line of dance from the edge, lady's back to the tables (for protection). From there, there are a number of ways to enter the freeway at the general speed and not disrupt the flow. Perhaps it is like BsAs taxis, where the unwritten rule seems to be, if you have your nose in front, the space is yours, but don't hesitate. John Continue to From Tangled to Hot German Potato Salad Nuevo \| ARTICLE INDEX

1491 Codes