3426 Blacks and tango (breif)
Date: Sat, 14 May 2005 21:43:16 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Blacks and tango (breif)
My 2 cents:
I feel I may have pressed the wrong buttons when discussing the subject of
blacks or afro-argentines as creators of tango. However, I feel is good to
question what is on the books or posted in the websites regarding the
identity of the creators of the tango dance.
After reading non-mainstream books, and articles I stumble across
information, which contradicts what mainstream books portrait about the role
of blacks in tango, which is usually minimized or scattered.
I think that between 1860 and 1870 Tango appeared to have been born, and
introduced by blacks to others.
Why?
With the beginning of the first wave of immigrants they began to displace
blacks from their jobs whether these were menial ones or not. This forced
the way for blacks to earn a living as dance instructors teaching dances
that were popular in those times: Chotis, Cuadrillas, Lanceros, Polka,
Milonga, etc. In short, dance academies were created and run by blacks, and
appeared to be a market for teaching dances. It is at these academies that
the first choreographies of tango were tested, and subsequently were
reproduced elsewhere. Ten years later the first record of tango being dance
in a discreet brothel appeared.
Tango in 1870
In 1870 the first proof that tango was being danced was reported with the
detention of men and women in a discreet brothel. This police raid did not
happen by chance. The detained men were suspected of plotting a sort of coup
against the government in power. At the police station the detained women
when asked of their activities testified that they were dancing among other
things Tango.
The information I have gathered comes from Andres M. Carretero's book Tango
Testigo Social, and other articles, and reviews, which I find from time to
time.
I do not have an interest in making waves about this subject, but I learned
that the most important thing is to find out why? My main interest is in
learning the essence of tango from its roots to apply it to my dance.
Best regards,
Bruno
-----Original Message-----
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 00:38:05 -0700
From: Jean-Pierre Sighe <jpsighe@SIGHES.COM>
Subject: Re: Blacks and tango (breif)
Sir,
You have pressed the right buttons and I thank you for your honesty. Thank
you for the book reference. I'll see if I can get a hold of it. ( I would
not be surprised if somebody jumps up and down to "discredit " M. Andres
Carretero :)...Just a thought)
Jean-Pierre
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 8:43 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Blacks and tango (breif)
My 2 cents:
I feel I may have pressed the wrong buttons when discussing the subject of
blacks or afro-argentines as creators of tango. However, I feel is good to
question what is on the books or posted in the websites regarding the
identity of the creators of the tango dance.
After reading non-mainstream books, and articles I stumble across
information, which contradicts what mainstream books portrait about the role
of blacks in tango, which is usually minimized or scattered.
I think that between 1860 and 1870 Tango appeared to have been born, and
introduced by blacks to others.
Why?
With the beginning of the first wave of immigrants they began to displace
blacks from their jobs whether these were menial ones or not. This forced
the way for blacks to earn a living as dance instructors teaching dances
that were popular in those times: Chotis, Cuadrillas, Lanceros, Polka,
Milonga, etc. In short, dance academies were created and run by blacks, and
appeared to be a market for teaching dances. It is at these academies that
the first choreographies of tango were tested, and subsequently were
reproduced elsewhere. Ten years later the first record of tango being dance
in a discreet brothel appeared.
Tango in 1870
In 1870 the first proof that tango was being danced was reported with the
detention of men and women in a discreet brothel. This police raid did not
happen by chance. The detained men were suspected of plotting a sort of coup
against the government in power. At the police station the detained women
when asked of their activities testified that they were dancing among other
things Tango.
The information I have gathered comes from Andres M. Carretero's book Tango
Testigo Social, and other articles, and reviews, which I find from time to
time.
I do not have an interest in making waves about this subject, but I learned
that the most important thing is to find out why? My main interest is in
learning the essence of tango from its roots to apply it to my dance.
Best regards,
Bruno
-----Original Message-----
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Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 12:22:15 +0200
From: Ecsedy Áron <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: Blacks and tango (breif)
Why do I feel, that this conversation diverged from the original subject:
how much african cultural influence is present in tango?
You are all talking about the role of black people...with a slight political
ring to it. Considering how many different nations were present when tango
was evolving it is completely irrelevant whether those who actually
contributed to tango were from which ethnicity. The question is how much
they _used_ the actual dances of their ancestors in the creation of tango.
Does anyone know facts on this one beside speculations?
In the multi-ethnical environment of Argentina, considering the continuous
changes in tango ever since, I sincerely doubt that there was a 'single',
already developed form of tango at those times. What is more likely, that
what they called tango was quite dissimilar to what we call tango now. (the
earliest tango we know - at least what some teachers claim to be the
earliest: canyengue - is quite different in many aspect from the later
styles...not to mention the tremendous number of variations in the same time
period. So why do we think that even farther back in time tango was a
single, unified phenomenon?)
IMHO considering the characteristics of European dances and the dancing of
other known ethnicities present in Argentina at that time, almost all the
tango elements were present in some form in the European immigrant dancing
repertoire. Obviously, this does not outrule the actual influence of African
dances. However, it dilutes them quite a bit.
Considering that the non-black community at the time (even if it was not
outright racist) seemed to sneer at things with negro origin (they've
appeared to consider it low-class), and also considering the characteristics
of some African elements in other dances, I'd guess that the much criticized
quebradas may be the African influence we are looking for. The broken upper
body position is not really common in European dancing at the time. However
it is very common in other dances of African influence...
All the other kicks, taps, syncopations etc. they are very much present in
Eastern European (and Jewish) culture, while cortes are probably taken from
European court dances (maybe as parody?). Of course this does not prove that
it is the exclusive origin. It only shows that we may not be able to decide
for one or the other.
My 2 cents.
Cheers,
Aron
PS: Jean-Pierre, could you PLEASE stop being insulting all the time? Nobody
was insulting you, however you do call others racist son of a bitches, based
on YOUR OWN assumptions. There are some basic rules on this list. You are to
follow them. Too.
Ecsedy Áron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
ICQ# 46386265
https://www.milonga.hu/
"Follow those who seek the truth.
Run from those who claim to have found it."
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 08:05:14 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Blacks and tango (breif)
Ecsedy Aron wrote:
>how much african cultural influence is present in tango?<
My 2 cents:
They contributed with the rhythm of the music, and the technique of the
dance. There is a musical mapping which analyzes how much of the African
cultural influence is present in tango.
In the technique of the dance, as I have read, there were steps such as the
corrida, which may have come from the Primitive Chotis, and they adapted to
the dance. More less it would look as if you raise your heels a bit a
pretend you are walking *down* a flight of stairs, which is flat.
Regards,
Bruno
