2210 chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:18:06 +0100
From: Melina Sedo <melinasedo@ONLINEHOME.DE>
Subject: chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
Hi Marisa, hi Phil,
packed dancefloors and dancers not knowing how to deal with that
situation are a universal Tango problem. We' ve also got them in
Europe. ;-)))
But: in my opinion there are quite a few things, teachers and
organizers can do. A lot of them have been said thousands of times, but
sometimes it may be good, to think about this principles again...
At a lesson:
-Teach and emphasize improvisation from the beginning. Abandon rigid
structures.
-Teach techniques. People are less dangerous if they are able to
coordinate their actions.
-Make clear that there is a dance line and that dancing against this
line with your backside is not very sensible. Forget the notorious
first backstep! ;-))
-Practice dancing in a line, without changing the distance to the other
couples or without stopping in one place for a time longer then a few
seconds. This is a very good exercise for creating a floating "Ronda".
-Teach your pupils to listen and dance to the music they hear.
-Teach methods to change the directions and practise them: We also use
the method of stepping deliberately in front of the pupils. Another
exercise is to built a kind of parcours with objekts to navigate
around.
-Stress, that a Milonga is a social event, where people want to amuse
themselves and where everybody is responsable for keeping the "peace".
(Also the followers!) A Milonga is not a stage.
-Invent exercises which build a kind of "common feeling", like: All (!)
following one leading person whith their eyes closed.
-Teach simple things and dance acording to the principles you teach. A
lot of instructors teach the "correct" philosophy, but change into
Gustavo & Giselle the moment they step onto a dancefloor. Be an
example! ;-)))
At a Milonga or a festival:
-Stop inviting great showstars, who encourage the people to throw their
legs high in the air. Invite couples with their feet on the ground.
-Do not play music which is too expressive, when the danceflooor is
crowded: byebye Piazolla, byebye my dear Pugliese.
-Encourage sensible dancers to come to your Milonga and be an example.
-Talk to "wrongdoers" privetely and nicely.
-Dim the lights and create an intimate atmosphere. People will stop
showing off, if they can't be seen. ;-))
-If it gets too bad, talk to the audience in a friendly but serious way
and ask them to show a little more thoughtfulness. Make clear, you do
not only talk to the beginners.
Excuse me, if I've overdone it. The teacher broke through... ;-)))
But, to encourage you: I've seen quite a few "scenes" change from
would-be-stages into places, were people like to dance together after
the organizers decision to change things. It works!
Cheers,
Melina
Melina Sedó & Detlef Engel
--------------------------
www.tangodesalon.de
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 12:25:23 +0100
From: "Christian Lüthen" <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
Subject: Re: chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
> Excuse me, if I've overdone it. The teacher broke through... ;-)))
>
> Melina
not at all ... but so true what you say!
print it out, folks, print it out ... in large font letters ...
... and hand it out ... esp. to the "experienced" dancers (those who "think"
they are the better ones) ...
best wishes for peaceful flowing floorcraft by
Christian
--
chrisitan@eTanguero.net
https://www.eTanguero.net/
GMX ProMail (250 MB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS, Virenschutz, 2,99 EUR/Monat...)
jetzt 3 Monate GRATIS + 3x DER SPIEGEL +++ https://www.gmx.net/derspiegel +++
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:22:35 -0500
From: Ronda Patino <rondap@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
Hi Melina,
You will not find anyone in the world who can follow line of dance better
than Gustavo and Giselle Anne. In fact, some of the first tango classes I
took where line of dance was taught, were by Gustavo and Giselle Anne during
the first CITA convention in 1999. Many of the so called "stage dancers"
have amazing body control. The two you picked, Gustavo and Giselle Anne,
have an amazing repertoire, decades of experience and intelligence and
social graces to go with it! They can dance circles around you on or off the
stage.
I am all for line of dance and dancing with your partner, the music, and
everyone in the room. We teach this every class, but please do not
denigrate the best dancers of our time.
Arrepentidas to all,
Ronda
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 6:18 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
Hi Marisa, hi Phil,
packed dancefloors and dancers not knowing how to deal with that
situation are a universal Tango problem. We' ve also got them in
Europe. ;-)))
But: in my opinion there are quite a few things, teachers and
organizers can do. A lot of them have been said thousands of times, but
sometimes it may be good, to think about this principles again...
At a lesson:
-Teach and emphasize improvisation from the beginning. Abandon rigid
structures.
-Teach techniques. People are less dangerous if they are able to
coordinate their actions.
-Make clear that there is a dance line and that dancing against this
line with your backside is not very sensible. Forget the notorious
first backstep! ;-))
-Practice dancing in a line, without changing the distance to the other
couples or without stopping in one place for a time longer then a few
seconds. This is a very good exercise for creating a floating "Ronda".
-Teach your pupils to listen and dance to the music they hear.
-Teach methods to change the directions and practise them: We also use
the method of stepping deliberately in front of the pupils. Another
exercise is to built a kind of parcours with objekts to navigate
around.
-Stress, that a Milonga is a social event, where people want to amuse
themselves and where everybody is responsable for keeping the "peace".
(Also the followers!) A Milonga is not a stage.
-Invent exercises which build a kind of "common feeling", like: All (!)
following one leading person whith their eyes closed.
-Teach simple things and dance acording to the principles you teach. A
lot of instructors teach the "correct" philosophy, but change into
Gustavo & Giselle the moment they step onto a dancefloor. Be an
example! ;-)))
At a Milonga or a festival:
-Stop inviting great showstars, who encourage the people to throw their
legs high in the air. Invite couples with their feet on the ground.
-Do not play music which is too expressive, when the danceflooor is
crowded: byebye Piazolla, byebye my dear Pugliese.
-Encourage sensible dancers to come to your Milonga and be an example.
-Talk to "wrongdoers" privetely and nicely.
-Dim the lights and create an intimate atmosphere. People will stop
showing off, if they can't be seen. ;-))
-If it gets too bad, talk to the audience in a friendly but serious way
and ask them to show a little more thoughtfulness. Make clear, you do
not only talk to the beginners.
Excuse me, if I've overdone it. The teacher broke through... ;-)))
But, to encourage you: I've seen quite a few "scenes" change from
would-be-stages into places, were people like to dance together after
the organizers decision to change things. It works!
Cheers,
Melina
Melina Sedó & Detlef Engel
--------------------------
www.tangodesalon.de
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 16:24:11 -0500
From: ozeng <ozeng@NEURO.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
I totally agree with Ronda. Unfortunately, some people without having the first-hand experience or knowledge of what they are talking about =
can easily degrade two of the most incredibly wonderful instructors and dancers of all times...that's just sad...
Wish everyone can be fortunate enough to study with Gustavo and Giselle Anne or at least have a chance to see them dancing at a milonga which =
could be a great learning experience all by itself for those who are open to it.
Gulden Ozen
________________________________
Sent: Tue 2/3/2004 11:22 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
Hi Melina,
You will not find anyone in the world who can follow line of dance better
than Gustavo and Giselle Anne. In fact, some of the first tango classes I
took where line of dance was taught, were by Gustavo and Giselle Anne during
the first CITA convention in 1999. Many of the so called "stage dancers"
have amazing body control. The two you picked, Gustavo and Giselle Anne,
have an amazing repertoire, decades of experience and intelligence and
social graces to go with it! They can dance circles around you on or off the
stage.
I am all for line of dance and dancing with your partner, the music, and
everyone in the room. We teach this every class, but please do not
denigrate the best dancers of our time.
Arrepentidas to all,
Ronda
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 6:18 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
Hi Marisa, hi Phil,
packed dancefloors and dancers not knowing how to deal with that
situation are a universal Tango problem. We' ve also got them in
Europe. ;-)))
But: in my opinion there are quite a few things, teachers and
organizers can do. A lot of them have been said thousands of times, but
sometimes it may be good, to think about this principles again...
At a lesson:
-Teach and emphasize improvisation from the beginning. Abandon rigid
structures.
-Teach techniques. People are less dangerous if they are able to
coordinate their actions.
-Make clear that there is a dance line and that dancing against this
line with your backside is not very sensible. Forget the notorious
first backstep! ;-))
-Practice dancing in a line, without changing the distance to the other
couples or without stopping in one place for a time longer then a few
seconds. This is a very good exercise for creating a floating "Ronda".
-Teach your pupils to listen and dance to the music they hear.
-Teach methods to change the directions and practise them: We also use
the method of stepping deliberately in front of the pupils. Another
exercise is to built a kind of parcours with objekts to navigate
around.
-Stress, that a Milonga is a social event, where people want to amuse
themselves and where everybody is responsable for keeping the "peace".
(Also the followers!) A Milonga is not a stage.
-Invent exercises which build a kind of "common feeling", like: All (!)
following one leading person whith their eyes closed.
-Teach simple things and dance acording to the principles you teach. A
lot of instructors teach the "correct" philosophy, but change into
Gustavo & Giselle the moment they step onto a dancefloor. Be an
example! ;-)))
At a Milonga or a festival:
-Stop inviting great showstars, who encourage the people to throw their
legs high in the air. Invite couples with their feet on the ground.
-Do not play music which is too expressive, when the danceflooor is
crowded: byebye Piazolla, byebye my dear Pugliese.
-Encourage sensible dancers to come to your Milonga and be an example.
-Talk to "wrongdoers" privetely and nicely.
-Dim the lights and create an intimate atmosphere. People will stop
showing off, if they can't be seen. ;-))
-If it gets too bad, talk to the audience in a friendly but serious way
and ask them to show a little more thoughtfulness. Make clear, you do
not only talk to the beginners.
Excuse me, if I've overdone it. The teacher broke through... ;-)))
But, to encourage you: I've seen quite a few "scenes" change from
would-be-stages into places, were people like to dance together after
the organizers decision to change things. It works!
Cheers,
Melina
Melina Sedó & Detlef Engel
--------------------------
www.tangodesalon.de
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 03:36:36 -0500
From: bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM
Subject: Re: chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
Melina wrote:
-Stop inviting great showstars, who encourage the people to throw their legs high in the air. Invite couples with their feet on the ground.
Why do some of the people on this list seem to thing that stage dancers don't know how to tell the different between what they dance on stage to what they dance in the milonga? I have watched and worked with at least 30 professional couples from Argentina and the United States who can put on a gorgeous stage show and then dance appropriately at a milonga. Most of them generally teach the difference too. They are professionals, they know the difference. I don't know who you guys are watching dance...but I have never seen a professional or master tango dancer from Argentina mistake the difference.
And as for what is taught in workshops... you know, when you are in a class, especially an advance level class, at times you are going to find other professionals in those classes who want instruction for stage dancing... not just social dancing. Every teacher is going to teach differently, it's up to the student to determine which workshops and teachers they need for their purpose of dancing (unless you are a beginner and haven't learned the difference yet). For example, I have taken a class one day with a couple who taught appropriate technique and movement for dancing at the milonga, and the next day taken another class from the same couple who taught an extravagant combination that I could use for stage. Teachers shouldn't stop teaching the different styles, it's up to the student to be in their appropriate level class. You know, not only beginners take classes, so do other advanced level and professional dancers. ESPECIALLY at congresses.
And I'll continue to say as I do to ALL of my students. If you REALLY want to get the most out of the instruction you pay for and REALLY learn how to dance....private lessons are a must. It is very difficult for a teacher to see in detail where an individual student needs to improve during a large group class or workshop. But, in my experience, very few tango dancers are willing to spend the money on private instruction. That could be our biggest problem in the milongas.
Nicole
Miami
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:03:29 -0500
From: ozeng <ozeng@NEURO.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
"Dimming the lights" is something that one needs to be careful about. How are people going to see each other across the dance floor and use =
"cabaceo" to communicate if they can't even see the dancers on the dance floor? I hope this is not what you meant.
Gulden
________________________________
Sent: Tue 2/3/2004 6:18 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
At a Milonga or a festival:
-Dim the lights and create an intimate atmosphere. People will stop
showing off, if they can't be seen. ;-))
Excuse me, if I've overdone it. The teacher broke through... ;-)))
Melina
Melina Sedó & Detlef Engel
--------------------------
www.tangodesalon.de
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 07:39:37 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: chaotic dancefloors and how to avoid them
Melina wrote:
>-Dim the lights and create an intimate atmosphere. People will
>stop showing off, if they can't be seen. ;-))
In addition to dimming the lights, a fog machine can be helpful in
preventing too show offs on the dance floor. Make sure that you only make
the fog dense enough that offending dancers cannot show off effectively,
but all the dancers can still see the adjacent couples. ;-)
--Steve (de Tejas)
