1982 hated Eight Count Basic (8CB).
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 20:10:02 -0800
From: Philip Seyer <philipseyer@ILOVEMUSIC.COM>
Subject: hated Eight Count Basic (8CB).
I've seen many posts over the years about the hated Eight Count Basic (8CB) -- or is it just the hate 8CD backstep?
What suggestions do you have on what would be helpful to teacher beginners, if not not the 8CB? Everyone needs to start somewhere and =
beginners need a foundation to build on. What would be the best foundation to build on? That's a difficult question. In answering it, =
try to put yourself in a beginners shoes. Think back on where you first started learning Argentine Tango. What was it like? Would do you think =
would have helped you the most? Thanks for your ideas.
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:15:24 -0600
From: "Berger, Sherwin" <Sberger@RTICO.COM>
Subject: Re: hated Eight Count Basic (8CB).
I think that beginners should be taught to walk first: "left foot forward,
right foot together and touch (not stand on), then right foot forward, then
left foot together and touch. Walk all the way across the room this way,turn
around and do it again, again and again.
Then go backwards...right foot back, then left together and touch. Etc.
Then go left foot to side, then right foot touch, right foot to side, then
left foot touch,
This gives a good basic step for dancing tango or other dances! Some
teachers I had didn't do it this way, others did. but I'm glad I learned it
along the way.
Regards from
Sherwin Berger
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Seyer [mailto:philipseyer@ILOVEMUSIC.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 10:10 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] hated Eight Count Basic (8CB).
I've seen many posts over the years about the hated Eight Count Basic (8CB)
-- or is it just the hate 8CD backstep?
What suggestions do you have on what would be helpful to teacher beginners,
if not not the 8CB? Everyone needs to start somewhere and beginners need a
foundation to build on. What would be the best foundation to build on?
That's a difficult question. In answering it, try to put yourself in a
beginners shoes. Think back on where you first started learning Argentine
Tango. What was it like? Would do you think would have helped you the most?
Thanks for your ideas.
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:24:11 -0800
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: hated Eight Count Basic (8CB).
Ditto, I first learned the so called 8 basic, later it took me 2 years
to get it out of my head.
I only teach how everything one needs to dance tango, is in one's every
day walk. No fancy technique, no special physical abilities, no
enhanced brains needed, no prior dance experience; just walk and
feeling.
And that all the steps tango has are in the structure of the molinete,
but I never put numbers on it. Rather, I show them how to match the
molinete structure to "danceable" tango music.
Carlos Rojas
Portland, OR
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 8:10 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] hated Eight Count Basic (8CB).
I've seen many posts over the years about the hated Eight Count Basic
(8CB) -- or is it just the hate 8CD backstep?
What suggestions do you have on what would be helpful to teacher
beginners, if not not the 8CB? Everyone needs to start somewhere and
beginners need a foundation to build on. What would be the best
foundation to build on? That's a difficult question. In answering it,
try to put yourself in a beginners shoes. Think back on where you first
started learning Argentine Tango. What was it like? Would do you think
would have helped you the most? Thanks for your ideas.
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 12:01:25 EST
From: LGMoseley@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: hated Eight Count Basic (8CB).
I suspect that the original purpose of the back step was to try to fit the
D8CB into exactly 8 beats (if one merely steps side left, perhaps with a
swiverl, into the Salida, then it takes only 7 beats). Three points arise;
1. Any fixed pattern is poor Tango. Tango is an improvisational dance. We
teach the basic walk by saying that the brush-step (on the half-beat) is the most
important 'step' in Tango because with both partners on one foot, the leader
can change his mind on ANY step, and the lady can follow any change of mind.
It also helps to keep people on the beat. At least that way if people dance off
the beat, they do so consciously and deliberately, rather than automatically.
2. One can always avoid it while still sticking to 8 beats, if that is what
you want to do, by stepping sideways left, and then either brush or do firulete
with your right foot without changing weight. That way, you can make your
basic pattern, supposing that you have one, fill whatever number of beats you
want it to.
3. The dreaded back step is impolite and potentially dangerous if you make
the step straight back along the line of dance. However, who says that the step
has to be straight back along the line of dance. I frequently use the back
step as a navigational aid. However, to do so, I always make sure that I am
facing towards the middle of the floor before I take that step. I might have
finished the previous move with a turning resolucion, or a a rulo, for example.
That way, I have (a) had a look around before moving to ensure that I will not be
endangering any other couples and (b) my back step is towards the wall or the
corner. I can also use that back step as the preparation for a turn
temporarily to take up a new line to avoid other people.
So, I agree that the back step is potentially dangerous. Whether it is also
actually dangerous, depends on how and when you use it. If you really are
brushing on every step, you can change your mind and avoid trouble (for you and for
others) at any point, including just before, during, or after the back step.
If it is that crowded, you can always wait and listen for someone saying "Mira
como esperan - my bonita" or the equivalent.
Laurie Moseley
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:14:34 +0000
From: Lisa Maloney <tgcat@GCI.NET>
Subject: hated Eight Count Basic (8CB).
Philip Seyer wrote:
I've seen many posts over the years about the hated Eight Count Basic (8CB) -- or is it just the hate 8CD backstep?
What suggestions do you have on what would be helpful to teacher beginners, if not not the 8CB? Everyone needs to start somewhere and =
beginners need a foundation to build on. What would be the best foundation to build on? That's a difficult question. In answering it, =
try to put yourself in a beginners shoes. Think back on where you first started learning Argentine Tango. What was it like? Would do you think =
would have helped you the most? Thanks for your ideas.
-----
Philip (and list) my first experience was on a visit to California. I
wandered into a tango lesson already underway, desperately wanting to dance
SOMETHING before getting on a plane back to Alaska.
In the lesson they were teaching something which I presume was the 8CB --
some set steps with a cross in there somewhere for the woman. They taught
different modifications and some different movements, but since the lesson
was already underway, I was more or less handed over to one of the dancers
who'd been sitting nearby. It was very easy to follow him and at some
point we started to digress from what they were doing in the lesson.
For the rest of the night, I spent my time dancing while slowly absorbing
things like the songs coming in tandas, or the idea that if I say "thank
you" it actually means "thank you, go away" (oops!). "Tango
posture? What's that?"
So my initial introduction to tango didn't involve semantics, it was only
about the feeling; some of the necessary knowledge was presented to me by
very understanding and courteous partners throughout the night and some
more of it I am still learning up here. But that is all secondary to the
FEELING that I walked away with that night, and it is the FEELING that
became my foundation.
If I had been steeped in the idea of a basic step I would have walked away
from there and never associated with the tango again, because once you
learn to "color within the lines" it can be a struggle to break free, and
even moreso to leave the lines behind entirely. The other bit of good
fortune was getting to dance with very good leads, so that I didn't even
realize it was possible to feel unsafe or abandoned in the
partnership. (Also important for a foundation, yes? At least to realize
that this is possible, as opposed to a "pipe dream"..)
I hope that little story helps -- in this case I do feel that I got a very
useful and evocative foundation, even though there are of course a lot of
things I still need to learn. I realize that just putting someone out to
flail on the floor with no introduction at all is a bad idea, but if you
are open to it you can learn a pattern of movement from your lead quite
easily. If you are not open to it, teaching that you step "Here, then
here, then do this and that -- that's the tango" is still probably not the
solution.
Lisa
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 17:25:01 -0500
From: Miamidances@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: hated Eight Count Basic (8CB)
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Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 00:15:11 +0100
From: Christian Lüthen <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
Subject: on counting ... up to 8 ... Re: [TANGO-L] hated Eight Count Basic (8CB)
hola listeras y listeros!
I followex the (once again) discussion the last days ...
... but now I really have to bring out what I thought a couple of
days ago.
the 8CB 'per se' is no problem at all ... and actually for beginners
it is probably quite handy, but the 8CBwBS
[8CountBasic_With_BackStep_] is the problem!!!
On 14 Nov 2003 at 17:25, Miamidances@AOL.COM wrote:
> [...]
> Rule for the basic 1 & 2 following LOD; if I start forward facing
> LOD, I use a 7-count basic leaving off the dreaded back step, and
> finish backward facing against LOD.
_impossible_! Tango counting has to be able to be divided by four
(4)! you can _not_ count up to "7" in tango! what then, after "7"?
leave 'one' over? an impair number in countin in tango does not work
at all!
and, here we go:
8CB is no problem at all ... as long as you do step '1' "on the spot"
... read: shift your weight and "that's it". [but do not ommit the
'count' of step '1'!]
if just shifting weight is to complicated (and for beginners it will
be) ... do just a _ _very_ _ small 'back' step ... let's say half an
inch, or so!
but do NOT start counting any uneven numbers! this is impossible!
*tango* rhythm has to be dividable by 2 (/4), ... seven (7) is
definitly impossible. [if someone claims to be able ... prove to me
that you're able to play dave brubeck's "unsquare dance" from the
scores without any rehearsel ... {"unsquare dance is a 7/4 rhythm ...
:-)) }]
> [...]
> The 8-count basic should not be dreaded, only the improper use of the
> 8-count basic.
true! counting up to '8' is no prob at all ... as long as there is
_no_ backstep involved!
safe dances!
christian
christian@eTanguero.net
https://www.eTanguero.net/
