2174 High heels
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:22:03 -0800
From: Jim Gillette <jimgil@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: High heels
Astrid's humorous comment about stilettos reminded me of something I have wondered about. I have heard a number of women who dance tango =
regularly say they have foot pain due to the shoes. Some have been injured and can't even dance in high heels anymore. I've heard others =
say that they have just learned to live with the pain. While in Buenos Aires, I took a class with Maria Plazaola at El Beso. She was wearing =
mid-calf boots with flat heels, and she danced beautifully. I've seen other female teachers and dancers wear dance sneakers when they can. My =
question is why is tango fashion so important that women would risk injury? I like the appearance of high heels at times but not at the =
expense of the woman's feet. Low heels and flats are fine with me if my partner is comfortable and we enjoy the dance.
Jim
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:21:44 -0800
From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: High heels
--- Jim Gillette <jimgil@ADELPHIA.NET> wrote:
> My question is why is tango fashion so important
that
> women would risk injury?
Hi Jim,
Take out the word tango in your above question and
your asking something as old as fashion itself. Who
knows. It's a personal choice I'd say.....
Regards,
Rose
Portland, OR
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 08:22:54 -0800
From: Sabina Lewis <sabina_nola@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: High heels and womens classes
A long time lurker speaks out.
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 09:44:50 -0800
From: peterwesser <peterwesser@OREGONDUCKS.ORG>
Subject: Re: High heels
Jim writes:
While in Buenos Aires, I took a class with Maria Plazaola at El Beso.
She was wearing mid-calf boots with flat heels, and she danced
beautifully.
I respond:
Hmm, this creates the impression that Maria habitually dances in flat
heeled shoes. But there is more to this story.
It's true Maria wears flat shoes when teaching, mostly demonstrating the
man's role. (Lead, follow are concepts that I do not hear expressed here
in Bs As).
And I agree she is an outstanding teacher of the milonguero style.
But when dancing with Gavito and Tete and the likes at the milongas
after her classes she wears high heels. This I have observed dozens of
times over the past 3 months.
Last night I told her about Jim's post and she said, I always wear high
heels when dancing (as opposed to when teaching), except maybe on
Wednesdays at the practica.
At one point during the milonga last night I asked her, how high are the
heels on the shoes you are wearing tonight? She said with an endearing
smile, "the highest." "How many centimeters?" "About 9or 10." This
translates to about 4 inches.
Does she dance well in flats? I think she does. Does the dance
exquisitely, beautifully in her high heels? I think she does and
obviously she thinks that high heels enhance her dancing.
None of the above touches on the question of pain or the why of high
heels in the first place. Is the perceived beauty of high heels simply
an acquired taste? If so, it's an engrained one as observed at the
milongas here in Bs As, and no doubt other places.
Happy tangos to all,
Peter.
<-----Original Message----->
From: Jim Gillette
Sent: 1/21/2004 6:26:03 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] High heels
Astrid's humorous comment about stilettos reminded me of something I
have wondered about. I have heard a number of women who dance tango
regularly say they have foot pain due to the shoes. Some have been
injured and can't even dance in high heels anymore. I've heard others
say that they have just learned to live with the pain. While in Buenos
Aires, I took a class with Maria Plazaola at El Beso. She was wearing
mid-calf boots with flat heels, and she danced beautifully. I've seen
other female teachers and dancers wear dance sneakers when they can. My
question is why is tango fashion so important that women would risk
injury? I like the appearance of high heels at times but not at the
expense of the woman's feet. Low heels and flats are fine with me if my
partner is comfortable and we enjoy the dance.
Jim
.
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 06:44:59 +0200
From: Joaquin Concha <j.concha@WEBMAIL.CO.ZA>
Subject: Re: High heels
"New research says women who wear high heels may avoid
painful knee conditions in later life.
Fears that spine-bending stilettos could lead to knee
arthritis are unfounded, according to University of Warwick
researchers.
...
...
In fact, there was a link between regular dancing in
three-inch heels and a reduced risk of knee problems, the
academic said."
More at
https://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_852856.html?menu=news.quirkies
https://www.webmail.co.za/dialup Webmail ISP - Cool Connection, Cool Price
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 21:31:28 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: High heels
> In fact, there was a link between regular dancing in
> three-inch heels and a reduced risk of knee problems, the
> academic said."
>
For all those with a scientific research background it should be obvious
that the correlation of factors has not been clarified in this statement.
Does the wearing of 3 inch heels reduce the knee problems or is it the
regular dancing? I would assume, that women who dance regularly are fitter
than women who don't, and the muscles of their thighs, which support the
knees' movements, are better trained and toned. And dancing is gentler on
the knees than jogging, running and jumping.
It would take another study to establish whether women dancing regularly in
flat shoes also have more knee problems than women who dance in high heels,
and several other studies checking other possible combinations of factors.
Basically, the problem with high heels is not the osteoarthritis in the
knees, but the forced lowering of the metatarsal area which can lead to
problems with the bone structure of the foot . Also, the study does not
explain what the "spine bending" wearing of high heels does to the back.
Any sports doctors, osteopaths, Rolfers or similar among us who can answer
any of those questions?
Astrid
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 10:41:59 -0700
From: Deb Sclar <deb@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: High heels
On a similar topic:
The following is a news item posted on CBC NEWS ONLINE
at https://www.cbc.ca/news
HIGH HEELS MAY REDUCE ARTHRITIS RISK: STUDY
WebPosted Fri Jan 9 13:45:24 2004
Toronto---A new study suggests women who wear high heels may have a
reduced risk of developing arthritis in the knees. British researchers
found a significant link between regularly dancing in three-inch heels
and lower arthritis risks.
The study also found that women who wore any size of heel suffered fewer
knee problems, although the effect wasn't as great as with stilettos.
Approximately two per cent of women over 55 suffer from osteoarthritis in
the knees. That's double the rate for men.
Rsearchers theorized that high heels was a contributing factor in
arthritis. But they found the most important factor in developing
arthritis of the knees, is being overweight before the age of 40.
The study isn't generating enthusiasm amongst chiropractors. They warn
that high heels put a woman's entire body out of alignment, which puts
more stress on the body. That can lead to a whole set of other
potential problems.
The study was published in the Journal of Epidemiology and
Community Health.
Copyright (C) 2003 CBC. All rights reserved.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 9:45 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] High heels
"New research says women who wear high heels may avoid
painful knee conditions in later life.
Fears that spine-bending stilettos could lead to knee
arthritis are unfounded, according to University of Warwick
researchers.
...
...
In fact, there was a link between regular dancing in
three-inch heels and a reduced risk of knee problems, the
academic said."
More at
https://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_852856.html?menu=news.quirkies
https://www.webmail.co.za/dialup Webmail ISP - Cool Connection, Cool Price
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 13:24:30 -0800
From: Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: High heels
>
>> In fact, there was a link between regular dancing in
>> three-inch heels and a reduced risk of knee problems, the
>> academic said."
>>
>For all those with a scientific research background it should be obvious
>that the correlation of factors has not been clarified in this statement.
This is an understatement. If you look at the abstract of the actual study at
https://jech.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/abstract/57/10/823
there is no statement about dancing and osteoarthritis. It might be in the
body of the article, but it is clear that such a correlation is not
statistically significant. The reporting is quite sloppy in my opinion.
I think the interesting result from the article is that there could be found
no correlation between wearing high-heeled shoes and increased incidence of
osteoarthritis. That's all - and is probably good enough news.
The claims about actually preventing osteoarthritis by wearing high-heeled
shoes are not significant statistically, as the article abstract says
explicitly.
In fact there were only 29 women with osteoarthritis, 82 "controls", and only
71 women of the 111 total who ever wore 3-inch heels (we are not talking about
regularly wearing 3-inch heels, just wearing 3-inch heels at least
once). These numbers seem really small for a robust statistical analysis.
Additionally, it is generally an unacceptable stretch to deduce causation
from correlation, e.g. an association/correlation between wearing high heels
and not having osteoarthritis does not imply that wearing high heels caused a
reduction of osteoarthritis incidences.
Still, the researchers couldn't pin osteoarthritis on regular wear of high
heel (i.e. more than 1 inch high and as high as 3 inch) shoes. However they
did find that "Being overweight with body mass index of 25 or above at age
36-40 years was a key factor and increased the risk of developing
osteoarthritis of the knee by a factor of 36."
Also see https://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/327/7418/768-b
Konstantin
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 14:23:00 -0800
From: Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: High heels
>Additionally, it is generally an unacceptable stretch to deduce causation
>from correlation, e.g. an association/correlation between wearing high heels
>and not having osteoarthritis does not imply that wearing high heels caused a
>reduction of osteoarthritis incidences.
In fact, talking about feet, did you know that there is a link between feet
size and reading skills in children?
I am not joking - this is true!
Of course the real reason for reading better has nothing to do with the size
of feet but with the fact that, statistically, children with larger feet are
also older.
Konstantin
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:50:44 -0800
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
Subject: Re: High heels, reading ability, general rant
> In fact, talking about feet, did you know that there is a link between
feet
> size and reading skills in children?
>
> I am not joking - this is true!
What correlation is that? Is it small feet or large feet that indicate
higher reading skills? From personal family experience I find no
correlation. I am the best reader in the family, including inlaws, of which
there are many of various sizes since our daughters have provided us with 5
very tall sons-in laws (so far). I and both daughters have quite small feet,
but Al's are even smaller, for a man, and his reading skills are about
average. The over-6-foot sons-in-law vary from low average to very high.
This appears to me a variation on the idea that women who gain more weight
in pregnancy and have larger babies produce healthier offspring -- all
ascribable to a Darwinian law of averages. E.g. Larger people are
historically healthier and more intelligent because in the past, and in the
most unfortunate parts of the globe today, larger smarter folks tend to
survive over their weaker dumber counterparts thus persisting in the gene
pool. In populations where people are educated in nutrition, and have the
economic ability to choose what they put in their bodies I can't imagine
that size is indicative of health, intelligence or reading ability.
Back on the subject of High Heels, my medical theory is that the best policy
is to vary heel heights in daily life as well as dancing from totally flat
through whatever height is comfortable ( for me it's 2 3/4") but to NEVER
NEVER wear any pair of shoes for 5 minutes if they are not comfortable, no
matter how chic, sexy or expensive. I've never had the slightest problems
with my feet, knock on wood.
Sorry to add to the rant quotient of the beloved T-list; just couldn't help
myself,
Abrazos,
Barbara
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:07:21 -0800
From: Kos Zahariev <Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: High heels, reading ability, general rant
>
>> In fact, talking about feet, did you know that there is a link between feet
>> size and reading skills in children?
>>
>> I am not joking - this is true!
>
>What correlation is that? Is it small feet or large feet that indicate
>higher reading skills? From personal family experience I find no
>correlation. I am the best reader in the family, including inlaws, of which
[...]
Sorry, I actually provided the answer to the reason for the correlation at the
end of my email (after a few blank lines).
This was supposed to be an example of a truthful correlation (kids
having larger feet tend to be better readers) which is void of any causality.
The answer to the apparent larger feet - better reading mystery is that it is
older kids who read better (and older kids statistically have larger feet than
younger kids, which is completely irrelevant to the reading ability of course).
Sorry if I have confused anyone. This was meant to be a fun example of how
deceptive it is to infer causality from correlation. I think I saw the example
in one of John Allen Paulos's books - probably this one - "Innumeracy -
mathematical illiteracy and its consequences".
Konstantin
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:23:33 -0500
From: rtara <rtara@MAINE.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: High heels, reading ability, general rant
I have a theory about heel heights.
We should really be talking about heel angles.
Try this experiment.
Take your shoes and socks off.
When you stand on the ball of your foot and lift your heel, you create an
angle with the floor.
If the angle you make is 30 degrees, for example, and the distance from the
ball of your foot to the center of your heel is 6 inches, you will most
comfortably wear a three inch heel.
If the angle is 30 degrees and the distance from he ball of your foot to the
center of your heel is 9 inches, however, you could comfortably wear a 5
inch heel.
The matter of comfortable heel height is a function of the geometry of your
body.
Best regards,
Robin
Tara Design, Inc.
www.taratangoshoes.com
Toll Free in US: 1-877-906-8272
18 Stillman St.
So. Portland ME 04106
207-741-2992--
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:23:16 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: High heels, reading ability, general rant
>
> > When you stand on the ball of your foot and lift your heel, you create
an
> > angle with the floor.
> >
> > If the angle is 30 degrees and the distance from he ball of your foot to
> the
> > center of your heel is 9 inches, however, you could comfortably wear a 5
> > inch heel.
> >
> There is a huge difference between standing on tip toes for a moment, and
> looking at the angle, and actually walking around like that for hours,
with
> the full weight of your body on the ball of your feet all the time. I
don't
> think ANYBODY would want to do the latter in 5 inch heels. The simple fact
> that your foot is long enough to squeeze in a 5 inch heel underneath does
> not mean anything yet. I do not see how anyone could "comfortably wear" 5
> inch heels.
> I once read some sado-maso foot fetishist page on the net, for which
someone
> sent me the URL, and it said, that for the highest possible heels (5 or 6
> inches or whatever it was) "it is possible for a woman to walk one or two
> meters" in those shoes, and the necessary condition is, that "at least a
> half inch of the fleshy part of the foot has to be in contact with the
> floor"in order to do that. No thank you.
>
> Astrid
>
>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:18:12 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: High heels, reading ability, general rant
> When you stand on the ball of your foot and lift your heel, you create an
> angle with the floor.
>
> If the angle is 30 degrees and the distance from he ball of your foot to
the
> center of your heel is 9 inches, however, you could comfortably wear a 5
> inch heel.
>
There is a huge difference between standing on tip toes for a moment, and
looking at the angle, and actually walking around like that for hours, with
the full weight of your body on the ball of your feet all the time. I don't
think ANYBODY would want to do the latter in 5 inch heels. The simple fact
that your foot is long enough to squeeze in a 5 inch heel underneath does
not mean anything yet. I do not see how anyone could "comfortably wear" 5
inch heels.
I once read some sado-maso foot fetishist page on the net, for which someone
sent me the URL, and it said, that for the highest possible heels (5 or 6
inches or whatever it was) "it is possible for a woman to walk one or two
meters" in those shoes, and the necessary condition is, that "at least a
half inch of the fleshy part of the foot has to be in contact with the
floor"in order to do that. No thank you.
Astrid
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 11:26:25 -0800
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: High heels, reading ability, general rant
"....I once read some sado-maso foot fetishist page on
the
net, for which someone
sent me the URL, and it said, that for the highest
possible heels (5 or 6
inches or whatever it was) "it is possible for a woman
to walk one or two
meters" in those shoes, and the necessary condition
is, that "at least a
half inch of the fleshy part of the foot has to be in
contact with the
floor"in order to do that. No thank you."
Astrid, I couldn't agree with you more. Speaking of
sado-maso, why don't we just go back to binding
women's feet the way they used to in old China and
settle this issue once and for all? We could then wear
heels of any height. I think.
I absolutely love those 6-inch stilettos, wore them
for years every day, and not just for dancing, and am
paying the price for it now. I did find a really
useful purpose for them, though, while travelling on
crowded New York subways. Crowded New York subways are
notorious for mashers, where thousands of people are
sqeezed into the subway cars by professional
"squeezers" like so much meat into a sausage skin.
During peak commute hours, of course. The best way to
discourage these mashers I found was to place one of
those stiletto heels on top of the big toe of the guy
leaning against you in the back (since you have no
room for escape) and put your entire weight on it.
Works like a charm.
Luda
=====
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:48:30 +0200
From: "Christian L?then" <christian.luethen@gmx.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] high heels verboten [a high heels rules proposal]
high heels verboten [a high heels rules proposal]
After getting knocked out my feet last night by a high styletto heel punching my achil tendon I'd like to propose some 'rules' concerning wearing shoes with high heels.
1st - height:
Maximum height of heels should be not more than one centimeter [2/5 of an inch] per year of (regular) tango dancing experience. For the first three years a maximum height of 3 cm [1 1/5 inches] is granted. (that is after four years 4 cm total is allowable)
2nd - diameter:
The minimum diameter to start with would be 1 centimeter [2/5 of an inch]. Per year of tango dancing experience 1/10 of a centimeter [1/25 of an inch] may be deducted from the starting one centimeter.
This posting also is a PLEDGE to tango teachers to include in the very first classes (and continously repeated!) instructions and exercises on how to carefully set your feet backward (this also accounts for the leaders!) ...
... especially to teach and exercise 'to feel with your feet': once there is / there might be a resistance while putting down the feet the dancer should immediately lift it up and release any force towards the ground. [and not shall 'push throuh'].
Christian
P.S.: the pain when being hit was one thing last night, the frustration not being able to dance afterwards while Dan Boccia was playing such wonderful music last night at Portland Tango Oktoberfest was ever more painful [thanks Dan for the best music selction by now for this years festival!]
.
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Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:33:16 -0400
From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] high heels verboten [a high heels rules
proposal]
To: Christian L?then <christian.luethen@gmx.net>
Cc: tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>
High heels are a fact of life in tango.
Women get speared with high heels at least as much as men, if not more.
They are usually being danced into someone else's feet and that's how
it happens. Women frequently have open top shoes so it can actually
puncture the foot. When that happens we are not only done for the
night, we can need to go to the doctor or the hospital.
Please feel sorry for us and fix your floorcraft as leads so you do not
do this to us. You are driving the bus, not us.
We know you like the way they look. You would not want us all wearing
dance sneakers at milongas, now would you.
Christian L?then wrote:
> high heels verboten [a high heels rules proposal]
>
>
> After getting knocked out my feet last night by a high styletto heel punching my achil tendon I'd like to propose some 'rules' concerning wearing shoes with high heels.
>
>
> 1st - height:
> Maximum height of heels should be not more than one centimeter [2/5 of an inch] per year of (regular) tango dancing experience. For the first three years a maximum height of 3 cm [1 1/5 inches] is granted. (that is after four years 4 cm total is allowable)
>
>
> 2nd - diameter:
> The minimum diameter to start with would be 1 centimeter [2/5 of an inch]. Per year of tango dancing experience 1/10 of a centimeter [1/25 of an inch] may be deducted from the starting one centimeter.
>
>
> This posting also is a PLEDGE to tango teachers to include in the very first classes (and continously repeated!) instructions and exercises on how to carefully set your feet backward (this also accounts for the leaders!) ...
> ... especially to teach and exercise 'to feel with your feet': once there is / there might be a resistance while putting down the feet the dancer should immediately lift it up and release any force towards the ground. [and not shall 'push throuh'].
>
>
> Christian
>
>
> P.S.: the pain when being hit was one thing last night, the frustration not being able to dance afterwards while Dan Boccia was playing such wonderful music last night at Portland Tango Oktoberfest was ever more painful [thanks Dan for the best music selction by now for this years festival!]
>
>
>
> .
>
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd
Arborlaw PLC
Ann Arbor MI USA
734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f
Arborlaw - a legal blog for entrepreneurs and small business
https://arborlaw.com
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:50:29 +0200
From: "Christian L?then" <christian.luethen@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] high heels verboten [a high heels rules
proposal]
To: tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>
Carol,
please re-read my posting!
> High heels are a fact of life in tango.
I did not argue to make high heels illegal (perhaps you just didn't get the 'jeux du mot' of my subject line) ... but limit certain kinds of heels to a certain experience / level of social (not stage or stagelike !) dance!
> Women get speared with high heels at least as much as men, if not more.
Which does not contradict my posting, but actually stressing it.
> Please feel sorry for us and fix your floorcraft as leads so you do not
> do this to us. You are driving the bus, not us.
If the bus (= follower) allows the driver to 'drive' it - fine. But a lot of buses/followers are not just following but initiate a lot of (dangerous) movements themselves! =;-o
> We know you like the way they look.
To be honest: I think that most styletto style high heels do not look very appealing (dancewise, perhaps sexuality wise for those who like that) ... usually the larger/wider and not so high heels look much better for dancing ... IMHO!
> You would not want us all wearing dance sneakers at milongas, now would
> you.
No problem with that! ;-) My partner nearly allways wears sneakers (due to a spine problem) ... but as she knows how to dance there is not a difference.
It's not the (shiny) shoes that make a good dancer ... but some (stylleto) shoes are more a kind of a weapon. And one should be educated/trained before allowed to walk around with that weapon!
So, please, re-read my original posting and get the point.
Christian
.
> Christian L?then wrote:
> > high heels verboten [a high heels rules proposal]
> >
> >
> > After getting knocked out my feet last night by a high styletto heel
> punching my achil tendon I'd like to propose some 'rules' concerning wearing
> shoes with high heels.
> >
> >
> > 1st - height:
> > Maximum height of heels should be not more than one centimeter [2/5 of
> an inch] per year of (regular) tango dancing experience. For the first
> three years a maximum height of 3 cm [1 1/5 inches] is granted. (that is after
> four years 4 cm total is allowable)
> >
> >
> > 2nd - diameter:
> > The minimum diameter to start with would be 1 centimeter [2/5 of an
> inch]. Per year of tango dancing experience 1/10 of a centimeter [1/25 of an
> inch] may be deducted from the starting one centimeter.
> >
> >
> > This posting also is a PLEDGE to tango teachers to include in the very
> first classes (and continously repeated!) instructions and exercises on how
> to carefully set your feet backward (this also accounts for the leaders!)
> ...
> > ... especially to teach and exercise 'to feel with your feet': once
> there is / there might be a resistance while putting down the feet the dancer
> should immediately lift it up and release any force towards the ground. [and
> not shall 'push throuh'].
> >
> >
> > Christian
> >
> >
> > P.S.: the pain when being hit was one thing last night, the frustration
> not being able to dance afterwards while Dan Boccia was playing such
> wonderful music last night at Portland Tango Oktoberfest was ever more painful
> [thanks Dan for the best music selction by now for this years festival!]
> >
> >
> >
> > .
> >
>
> --
> Carol Ruth Shepherd
> Arborlaw PLC
> Ann Arbor MI USA
> 734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f
> Arborlaw - a legal blog for entrepreneurs and small business
> https://arborlaw.com
>
--
.
Der GMX SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
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Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 21:41:30 -0300
From: "Madreselva Zapatos" <info@madreselvazapatos.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] high heels
To: "Robin Tara" <rtara@maine.rr.com>, "Deby Novitz"
<dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>, <tango-l@mit.edu>
I have to agree with Tara though I think many women are afraid of high heels
even though they dance beutifully and do not even try thinking always that
they can hurt their partner or themselves!! I would tell them give it try
!!! it is not only that you look sexier but it is also that you feel sexier
too!! Apart from that, saloon tango or tango danced at milongas here in BA
was originally done on heels though maybe not 9 or 10 centimiters but 6 or 7
yes!!! and all your movements look nicer and seixier after all that is what
tango is about to express your senxuality through a passionate & sexy dance
between two people and I personally think that is one of the main reasons
why foreigners have adapted tango as their dance!!
regards,
Natalia Laguzzi
MADRESELVA SHOES
Venezuela 3502
Buenos Aires CP 1220
Phone: 005411 4958 1645
Cel Phone: 0054 9 11 6640 9787
info@madreselvazapatos.com.ar
www.madreselvazapatos.com.ar
www.mimipinzon.com.ar
----- Original Message -----
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 10:11:42 +0200
From: "Christian L?then" <christian.luethen@gmx.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] high heels
To: tango-l@mit.edu
> !!! it is not only that you look sexier but it is also that you feel
> sexier too!!
Sure? TOO high heels do not look sexy but ordinary ... TOO high heels are more turning down a (real) male than attracting.
Pinpoint heels, too high, are more a 'turn down' for me than a 'get me on'.
Dancing good in lower / appropriate fitting heels will get you much more attraction of the right leaders ... inappropriate (height and/or styletto) will attract the attention of the 'wrong' male [all right: micht be 'the right' for some ... but do not complain if those are asking to lie down on your back very soon ....]
> Apart from that, saloon tango or tango danced at milongas here in BA
> was originally done on heels though maybe not 9 or 10 centimiters but 6
> or 7 yes!!!
Very good point!
> and all your movements look nicer and seixier after all that is
> what tango is about [...]
My words: tango in the *right* height of heels looks/is much sexier than in TOO high heels!
Regards,
Christian
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Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:49:16 -0300
From: Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] high heels
To: Madreselva Zapatos <info@madreselvazapatos.com.ar>
Cc: Robin Tara <rtara@maine.rr.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
With all due respect Natalia, you have shoes to sell which is a
completely different outlook than advice from someone who dances and
teaches. I have sat in several shoe stores where the owners/clerks urge
women to go for the higher heel. Why? Because they want the woman to
buy shoes. I have sat in shoe stores where the clerks who do not dance
and know nothing about dancing are dispensing advice on shoes. (Oh you
look so sexy...Oh those look so wonderful...)
Once a clerk showed me a pair of shoes with that crappy plastic stiletto
heel. I told her I did not want that heel, that I wanted a traditional
heel. (Still slim but not plastic and attached through the sole) She
began to "sell" me on the idea of that shoe. Telling me that once I
danced in it, it would be OK. I told her it would not be OK and when I
explained why it would not be OK, I got back information that was 100%
incorrect. Here was a shoe salesperson who DOES NOT dance telling me
how I could be dancing in these shoes. She had no idea if I danced well
or knew what I was talking about. Her whole conversation was delivered
very smoothly and in a manner that was very convincing but was pure
garbage. I am sure (had I not been me)I would have bought those too
high of crappy heeled shoes because this tango shoe store salesperson
was so sure they were a good thing for me. I would look so beautiful,
so elegant....
Women who are afraid to buy shoes that are too high usually have
reason. Yes, they may look sexy when you stand in front of a mirror. A
woman dancing with her butt sticking out, her arm draped around the man
holding on for dear life as he pushes her around the dance floor
(because she is so heavy hanging on him) does not look sexy. She looks
stupid.
If you cannot take confident strides walking normally in a pair of
heels, then they are TOO DAMN HIGH. Do yourself and your partners a
favor and buy shoes that fit you and are easy for you to walk in. You
might find you are dancing more and complaining less about your feet.
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:08:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] high heels
To: tango-l@mit.edu
--- Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com> wrote:
> I have sat in shoe stores where the clerks who do not
dance and know nothing about dancing are dispensing advice
on shoes.
Good point, Deby. Though I've been quite happy with the
service I've gotten stateside buying Tara Tango shoes and
Comme Il Fauts. Could the knowledgeable shoe folk out
there share their insights on what to look for in picking
shoes?
> Women who are afraid to buy shoes that are too high
> usually have reason.
This reminds me of the first time I invested in a pair of
real tango shoes. Being a sweatshirt/jeans kind of gal, I
had ordered an all-black pair with a 2.5 inch heel. What I
got instead was a pair of black shoes with a 3.5 inch heel
and red trim! Oh, dear! How racy! I hesitantly tried
them on, but I fell in love with them! They gave me more
confidence! Whenever I'm in them, I can't help but strut.
I'm so glad I was shipped the wrong pair!
I see the same change when other women buy their first pair
of real tango shoes, whether it's a 2 incher or a 4 incher.
So I think it's less about the heel height than helping
one feel great about oneself. For that, sometimes one
needs to push the envelope.
For local regular milongas, I prefer to wear dance sneakers
or character shoes since I'll occasionally dance the man's
part. For big local milongas or when I go out of town,
I'll switch to my "real tango shoes" that are 3.5 inchers.
Perhaps that's one reason local women in BsAs wear lower
heels at the usual milonga? They already know everyone, so
they don't need to get attention. I also hear that people
are shorter there in than in the States. I am guessing
that that usually means a smaller foot, so a lower heel
would be better.
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:20:53 -0400
From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] high heels
To: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
I'm not an engineer but I have heard the opposite -- taller woman, more
weight concentrated on the heel point, so a smaller broader heel is
better. And then there's the complications with a shorter lead and
taller follow but that's yet another discussion.
> they don't need to get attention. I also hear that people
> are shorter there in than in the States. I am guessing
> that that usually means a smaller foot, so a lower heel
> would be better.
>
> Trini de Pittsburgh
>
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd
Arborlaw PLC
Ann Arbor MI USA
734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f
https://arborlaw.com
your intellectual property expert outside counsel
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 03:18:39 -0600
From: "Cammie " <milonguera@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] high heels verboten [a high heels rules
proposal]
Christian, I am so glad to hear these words. I can only wear low heels and
am very careful about keeping my heels down and stepping back carefully, but
all I hear from most men (and women) is how elegant the high heels are. I
can't imagine wearing 3 to 4 inch heels, much less stiletto heels. And, I
don't have to take 3 or 4 pairs when I go dancing ? all my shoes (Tara) are
comfortable enough to wear all night.
I often see women who start out wearing their 4 inch high heels but later in
the evening have to change into their dance sneakers or limit their dancing
or stop dancing because their feet hurt!
Also, during festivals or local workshops with milongas the same evening, I
can?t even wear my low heeled shoes during class and then again at the
milongas, so do wear my dance sneakers during class. They have also made my
feet a million times more comfortable at the outdoor milongas during the
Denver festivals, which take place on a very smooth, but extremely hard
floor, especially since they are immediately followed by an all night
milonga.
Cammie in Denver.
P.S. I remember overhearing a conversation in the women?s bathroom at a
festival in California a few years ago: one woman saying to another that a
friend of hers picked all his partners by what shoes they wear wearing.
Pretty shallow, huh (I assumed he meant high heels)!
Christian L?then wrote:
Carol,
please re-read my posting!
> High heels are a fact of life in tango.
I did not argue to make high heels illegal (perhaps you just didn't get the
'jeux du mot' of my subject line) ... but limit certain kinds of heels to a
certain experience / level of social (not stage or stagelike !) dance!
> Women get speared with high heels at least as much as men, if not more.
Which does not contradict my posting, but actually stressing it.
> Please feel sorry for us and fix your floorcraft as leads so you do
> not do this to us. You are driving the bus, not us.
If the bus (= follower) allows the driver to 'drive' it - fine. But a lot of
buses/followers are not just following but initiate a lot of (dangerous)
movements themselves! =;-o
> We know you like the way they look.
To be honest: I think that most styletto style high heels do not look very
appealing (dancewise, perhaps sexuality wise for those who like that) ...
usually the larger/wider and not so high heels look much better for dancing
... IMHO!
> You would not want us all wearing dance sneakers at milongas, now
> would you.
No problem with that! ;-) My partner nearly allways wears sneakers (due to a
spine problem) ... but as she knows how to dance there is not a difference.
It's not the (shiny) shoes that make a good dancer ... but some (stylleto)
shoes are more a kind of a weapon. And one should be educated/trained before
allowed to walk around with that weapon!
So, please, re-read my original posting and get the point.
Christian
