1019 Need some light
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 18:01:53 EST
From: Timothy Pogros <TimmyTango@AOL.COM>
Subject: Need some light
I have also heard that an amague can be considered either a threat, or a fake
out
and the Boleao is an interrupted Ocho
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:18:08 -0700
From: Pablo Tapia <pablo.tapia@ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Need some light
I would say a boleo is an interrupted rotation (or a change of direction of
a rotation). I wouldn't call it an interrupted ocho.
Pablo
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:02 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] Need some light
I have also heard that an amague can be considered either a threat, or a
fake
out
and the Boleao is an interrupted Ocho
Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 23:25:24 -0800
From: Ed Loomis <TangoBear@OSBTOWN.COM>
Subject: (fwd) Re: [TANGO-L] Need some light
Why not call it an interrupted ocho? Boleos are mostly led as a surprise
spring back during the rotation phase of an ocho for the lady. Most
exercises for learning to lead boleos involve arresting a back ocho and
springing it back on itself. Yes, there are other set-ups for a boleo but
most of us learn with ochos first.
Ed
On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:18:08 -0700, Pablo Tapia <pablo.tapia@ASU.EDU>
wrote:
>I would say a boleo is an interrupted rotation (or a change of direction of
>a rotation). I wouldn't call it an interrupted ocho.
>
>Pablo
>
>From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
>[mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Timothy Pogros
>Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:02 PM
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: [TANGO-L] Need some light
>
>
>I have also heard that an amague can be considered either a threat, or a
>fake out and the Boleao is an interrupted Ocho
>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:16:23 -0800
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: (fwd) Re: [TANGO-L] Need some light
I think that calling a boleo an interrupted ocho would only encourage
that dreaded jerking around of the woman that inexperienced dancers
try when they first learn it. Been there, done that, hate it.
I prefer it as being a change of rotation in the woman's axis that
can be done once a lead becomes cognizant of her axis. What the
woman does with her leg is often her choice.
Trini
--- Ed Loomis <TangoBear@OSBTOWN.COM> wrote:
> Why not call it an interrupted ocho? Boleos are mostly led as a
> surprise
> spring back during the rotation phase of an ocho for the lady. Most
> exercises for learning to lead boleos involve arresting a back ocho
> and
> springing it back on itself. Yes, there are other set-ups for a
> boleo but
> most of us learn with ochos first.
>
> Ed
>
> On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:18:08 -0700, Pablo Tapia
> <pablo.tapia@ASU.EDU>
> wrote:
>
> >I would say a boleo is an interrupted rotation (or a change of
> direction of
> >a rotation). I wouldn't call it an interrupted ocho.
> >
> >Pablo
> >
> >From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
> >[mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Timothy Pogros
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:02 PM
> >To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> >Subject: [TANGO-L] Need some light
> >
> >
> >I have also heard that an amague can be considered either a
> threat, or a
> >fake out and the Boleao is an interrupted Ocho
> >
=====
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.patangos.org/
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 12:25 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] (fwd) Re: [TANGO-L] Need some light
Why not call it an interrupted ocho? Boleos are mostly led as a surprise
spring back during the rotation phase of an ocho for the lady. Most
exercises for learning to lead boleos involve arresting a back ocho and
springing it back on itself. Yes, there are other set-ups for a boleo but
most of us learn with ochos first.
Ed
On Tue, 11 Feb 2003 17:18:08 -0700, Pablo Tapia <pablo.tapia@ASU.EDU>
wrote:
>I would say a boleo is an interrupted rotation (or a change of direction of
>a rotation). I wouldn't call it an interrupted ocho.
>
>Pablo
>
>From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
>[mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Timothy Pogros
>Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:02 PM
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: [TANGO-L] Need some light
>
>
>I have also heard that an amague can be considered either a threat, or a
>fake out and the Boleao is an interrupted Ocho
>
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:31:35 -0800
From: Carlos Lima <amilsolrac@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Need some light
Not too long ago Timothy Pogros sprach ...
"I have also heard that an amague can be considered either a threat, or a
fake out and the Boleao is an interrupted Ocho"
According to the Real Academia (the same mentioned in Corrientes and
Esmeralda? I do not know, those lyrics seem to me an amphigoury, could never
make heads or tails of them) the noun is actually 'amago', and the verb is
'amagar': amago, amagas ... que yo amague, etc.
In tango circles (at least) in BAs the un-schooled variant 'amague' for the
noun is deeply ingrained, but that is neither standard Catellano, nor is it
Lunfardo. Lunfardo is something other than un-schooled Castellano, right?
Probably the most common contemporary meaning of 'amago' is fake move, faint,
and that is the way it is used in tango: a move reminiscent of a soccer fake.
The numerous other more or less living shades of meaning all gravitate around
the idea of an indicated but not consummated action, something that seems
headed to happening, but does not actually happen.
Some threats are amagos, but that does not make 'amago' mean threat as such.
I have seen the word amago (changed into amague) used to mean an appel (foot
stamping), on the grounds that it appears ... well ... threatening. Apart
from my rather not seeing (or hearing) tango dancers stamping their feet,
even on stage, calling that an amago, or amague, is kind of a funny
misunderstanding, I feel.
Now boleos, or voleos, as the word is sometimes spelt. I say a led boleo is a
move where a woman's leg is viewed somehow like a whip, and the man cracks
the whip (in a non-violent way, of course, please guys and girls, no need to
panic). Other boleos are more or less convincing imitations of led boleos.
Most (properly) led boleos are induced by "cutting" a woman's pivot. The
pivot can be preceded by another boleo, or an "open", or a pass forward (my
translation of cruce adelante), or a pass back or, theoretically, at least, a
"close", or nothing ... So a pivot that is part of an ocho (or back ocho, or
[back] ocho mouvement) is just one of many possibilities.
In linear boleos an initiated STRIDE is "cut", turning the expected STEP into
an amago of sorts. Or amague, if you cannot suffer to appear to be an
independent thinker in the tango world.
Cheers,
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:17:12 -0800
From: Carlos Lima <amilsolrac@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Need some light
During the recent discussion about boleos, something (I am not sure exactly
what) reminded me of the witticism to the effect that a husband is what
remains of a lover after the nerve is removed. (Not sure of attribution, but
I believe an early 20th century woman writer.)
Once, long ago, while sitting in an Argentine restaurant in North America,
some tango music, I mean, tango Muzak, was playing. It occurred to me that it
was tango music with the nerve removed.
Eventually I came in contact with the notion of tango dancing with the nerve
removed. Through descriptions only. Well no, not quite. I always worried,
perhaps overmuch, about unwittingly roughing up my partner ... ever so
slightly. So I get no complaints on that score (not me!) but once or twice,
fortunately just that, I was fairly sharply rebuked for being too bland as I
steered a lady through the dangerous rapids of a wild milonga floor.
Since then I try to make sure that my boleos contain enough energy exchange
to forestall any further accusation of blandness ... you know, no whimpy
boleos. After all, if I miscalculate and she slices some innocent fellow
dancer's calf, no one will think of blaming me, or dare blaming her.
At an advanced (!) level the important thing is precisely to avoid the middle
ground. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Either just "gently invert the
direction of rotation" and see what the lady will do with it on her own, or
else slice away. I am trying to decide which of these to embrace, as I make
my way out of Charlie Brown's milk toast.
Cheers,
PS - A number of people noticed that I mispelt feint as faint in my posting
of yesterday. I apologize. Spelling IS important.
