3043  Preaching tolerance

Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:14:10 -0600
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Preaching tolerance

Oh, dear - such silly bickering...

It seems to me that we get many more emails complaining about an imagined
offense on somebody else than is warranted. I'd like to remind everyone
about what my mother always told me - people may have bad manners, but you
have worse manners when you point out their bad manners to them. TOLERANCE!

It also seems to me that many times the offender is 1. a new poster (we were
all there once) 2. writing without proofreading (that's my excuse) 3.
different culturally from the predominantly North American/Northern European
tango experts that control this list. Maybe, just maybe, other cultures are
not so sensitive. Maybe they're OK with strong language, or passion, or
blunt statements. Maybe their translation is different. In any case I am
quite worried that many people we would love to hear from (like the
Porteno's!) are not posting because the Moral Police will react so strongly.

Lois Donnay
Minneapolis, MN

Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 18:09:22 -0400
From: Gülden Özen
<gulden@TANGOPHILIA.COM>
Subject: tolerance

Dear Aron,
You have a very nice and calm attitude in general and that's a very
positive thing. However, in this case, why do you see the list as a medium
where "newcomers" need to be tolerated and pampered especially if they are
overzealous enough to post 19 messages in a period of 5 days in a fashion
that triggers the perception that we're facing an "agent provocateur" (I
certainly did not believe that he was a new list member and I agree with
Christian, probably he is already back under another name)? Why
wouldn't the newcomer give himself/herself the time to see what is going
on before ambitiously posting probably without even reading? Are the
"mistakes" he/she is apologizing for the type of mistakes that any newcomer
in any medium could make or are they deliberate acts of being disrespectful?
I understand Sergio's suspicion as this situation gave me the same
suspicion. It is certainly easier for me to ignore the suspected "lurker"
or anybody else who can closely resemble him through this list. However,
given the history of constructive and active participation Sergio has shown
on this list and having been a target for these type of people as a result
, it is not surprising that he wanted to address an "agent provocateur" for
who and what he is.
Anybody who wants to play mysterious games like an adult should also have
the flexibility to deal with the consequences like an adult.
I am sorry but I cannot share your sympathy in this case.

Sincerely,

Gulden

At 03:29 PM 8/12/2005, =?iso-8859-2?Q?=C1ron_ECSEDY?= wrote:

>Now v0orbugw1l has unsubscribed from the list as he disclosed it to me.
>
>He may have appeared tactless at times, but he was not exactly rude or even
>disturbingly critical (not more than others list members).
>
>I consider it disturbing that someone got excommunicated from the list in 4
>days (that is how long he has been posting) for not identifying himself
>(don't forget: he wasn't misrepresenting himself! He openly remained
>anonymus.). Obviously, it is the sign of times and the state of the world a
>little bit, but I do not believe this was either necessary or prudent - not
>to mention kind - considering that he was a newcomer.
>
>Also, I must disclose that I do know his full name and identity and I can
>tell you that he is neither Alberto Paz, neither a troll of any kind (I'll
>respect his wish to remain anonymus). He was maybe slightly inexperienced in
>the subtleties of discussion on the list and maybe unaware of the fact that
>people here are very sensitive to anonym posts, however, at the end of the
>day he meant no harm.
>
>IMHO If you think someone (especially someone new!) is out of line then I
>suggest that you write a message in private telling this to the person,
>before posting any retributive messages on the list. As the list has no
>moderator, I believe that it is the responsibility of the community to make
>newcomers aware of their trespassings. Also it is the old members (posters)
>responsibility to be wiser than any new poster, who may not even be aware
>that their language or criticizm is too harsh for the standards of the list.
>
>Don't get me wrong: I don't mean to be a wiseass, I just merely trying to
>promote a method to create a more benign environment here.
>
>Cheers,
>Aron
>
>
>Ecsedy Áron
>***********
>Aron ECSEDY
>
>Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
>ICQ# 46386265
>
>https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
> * * * * *
> https://www.milonga.hu/
>
>"Follow those who seek the truth.
>Run from those who claim to have found it."
>
>"There is more than one way to cook an omlette."
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
> > [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of v0orbugw1l
> > Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 8:23 PM
> > To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> > Subject: [TANGO-L] Sincere Apologies To Ms.Herreman (Tine)
> >
> > Ms. Herreman:
> >
> > I sincerely apologize for the distress and anguish that I caused you.
> > It was a thoughtless, cruel and unconscionable act was from my part.
> > I can assure you that I have never danced with you, nor do I
> > intend to approach you. One reason is that I dance at a
> > different venue, the other that I would be too ashamed to face you.
> >
> > Again, please accept my apologies.
> > More apologies for I cannot disclose my name.
> >