2703  stage dancers, master instructors, etc.

Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 11:59:24 -0400
From: Gülden Özen
<gulden@TANGOPHILIA.COM>
Subject: stage dancers, master instructors, etc.

I'd like to send my personal reply to Bruno to the list this time as this
issue has been revisited by Sergio in his great posting about "false or
mistaken ideas", thanks Sergio!
Best,
Gulden

>Apologies.
>I should have been more clear about the "stage show" concept, I guess.
>These names (Fabian, Luciana,..) are not affiliated with stage shows
>touring around the world. Most people outside of Argentina were exposed to
>their teaching, not to a show they were engaged with. They are better
>known as "traveling instructors".
>
> Having said that, I see nothing wrong with the teaching methodologies
> of many stage dancers (those whose names were first known because of
> their engagement with some stage show before their talent became known as
> instructors by many people outside of Argentina and actually, this
> definition makes my list much longer than Sergio's list of stage dancers)
> who have had more experience in the milongas of Buenos Aires than most
> people posting to this list. Some of them prefer to use a pattern to
> analyze the technique required for the elements of that pattern and this
> may work for some students while taken as "they- teach-patterns" by some
> others. It is a great lesson in musicality all by itself just to watch
> them and to understand how they interpret the music during a demo or
> during a milonga. Everyone has the right to make a choice to take classes
> with "stage dancers/instructors" or not but talking about their teaching
> skills and the material they teach, for whatever reason (i.e. "they
> cannot make a living if they don't teach flashy stuff"), in
> a speculative way isn't the best way to go.
>I hope I could make myself clear this time.
>Open to your corrections and contributions as always,
>
>Gulden
>
>
>At 05:57 PM 8/27/2004, Bruno wrote:

>>Gulden Ozen wrote:
>><Also, Luciana or Fabian, who have never been engaged in
>>a stage show and have started their tango career in the milongas of Buenos
>>Aires>
>>
>>This is on Fabian Salas' website:
>>"He is acclaimed as a teacher and performer by tango lovers around the
>>world. Fabián was a member of the original cast (1994-1995) of the
>>award-winning (Best Musical) argentine tango show "Gotán", and also
>>performed in the stage show "El Patio de la Morocha" (1993-1994) at the
>>"Teatro Municipal General San Martin" in Buenos Aires."
>>
>>Bruno
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
>>[mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of Gülden Özen
>>Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 1:56 PM
>>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] progress report
>>
>>Carlos,
>> Thank you for the explanation. I agree that as people get more
>>experienced and more comfortable with their movements they start paying
>>more attention to the intricacies of the music and how they can express
>>these through their dancing. However, I don't see how one wouldn't be able
>>to get this expectation satisfied by studying with an instructor like
>>Luciana Valle, Fabian Salas or Chicho (a few names out of the list of
>>instructors who visited your area in the past) along with many others! If
>>there is one virtuoso out there who could give meaning to music beyond
>>anybody's expectation, that should be Chicho and he can pretty well convey
>>it to his students. Also, Luciana or Fabian, who have never been engaged in
>>a stage show and have started their tango career in the milongas of Buenos
>>Aires are probably the last to come to mind when you talk about teaching
>>patterns as opposed to improvisation, communication and musicality! Manuel
>>just mentioned his experience with some of these instructors regarding
>>their focus on musicality. I would really be more careful when attributing
>>this kind of cause/effect relationship to some social phenomenon/outcome
>>like the one you pointed out. As you mention, your community has many good
>>instructors locally available at very convenient prices and it would be
>>really an overstretch for many students to spend a big chunk of money all
>>at once to cover the expenses of a couple of days with a visiting
>>instructor. We see that the events with less flashy names as instructors
>>and with lots of opportunity to dance are getting better attendance than
>>"big" festivals with masters (at least in US) and it would be very hard to
>>say that this is because people don't want to take classes anymore with
>>"master" instructors! I'd rather think that people tend to spend less money
>>for more fun and more actual dancing experience with many different
>>partners. And probably, the usual "tango weekend" schedules or big
>>festivals are not seen as the best opportunity to meet these expectations...
>>
>>Gulden
>>
>>At 02:07 PM 8/27/2004, Carlos Rojas wrote:
>> >Gülden Özen wrote:
>> >
>> >-"Do you mean that all the visiting instructors who used to teach in
>> >Portland(...)no longer visit you because there is no interest in the
>> >community.."
>> >-"Or could it be due to becoming a more established community in the past
>> >ten years and starting to hold two big annual events like Valentango and
>> >October Fest"
>> >- "Maybe it is also due to having ~20 local instructors"
>> >
>> >Gülden,
>> >I am sure that the all the reasons you mentioned contribute to the lack of
>> >attendance to workshops, I am one of the organizers here as well, and in
>> >talking with other organizers and dancers, the feedback I got is that they
>> >are tired of learning steps.
>> >
>> >I think the reason Portland's dance level is good, is because from the
>> >beginning we have focused on social dancing, consequently dancers want to
>> >learn to dance well, rather than learn fancy combinations.
>> >
>> >I have also hear people more interested in learning to dance to the music,
>> >this to me is a sign of a community maturing and advancing to higher
>>levels.
>> >
>> >Having teachers/dancers like Alex Krebs and Robert Haulk (among many other
>> >good ones), have made it possible for our community/dancers to grow and
>> >mature.
>> >
>> >
>> >Carlos Rojas
>> >Portland, OR
>>