1430  Sunderland

Date: Wed Dec 19, 2001 2:40 am
Subject: Sunderland

Jose began to point out who was present, and it dawned on
me that my relaxed casual dances had taken place among
most of the living legends of Argentine tango! And
twice, I had bumped into people! I began to look at
the dancers with a new eye, and suddenly the heart and
soul of tango felt very near in this old gymnasium.
The older couples were amazing. I looked at their
faces and tried to imagine all of the things they had
seen. The men were perfectly dressed in well fitting
suits, and fresh haircuts. There was a table of old
men next to us that I fell in love with. I wanted to
join them. They kept laughing and singing along with
the music, and giving each other a hard time. Couples
would dance by and they would torment certain ones,
tugging the men's coats, and grabbing at the women.
The ladies would pretend to slap them, and then end up
kissing them. And then the men would kiss each
other. (These Argentine men are always hugging and
kissing one another. I actually kissed my barber the
other day after the completion of a successful
haircut... but that's another story). Dancing couples
would sometimes wave and speak to other dancers, and
to people seated at tables.

Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2005 16:25:39 -0800
From: Dolores Longo <madolo@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: SA: Buenos Aires, last minute change for Sunderland milonga venue tonight!

The Milonga regularly held on Saturdays in Club
Sunderland will take place tonight at 22:30 in Club
Banco de Provincia in Vicente Lopez, where La Barranca
milongas are held on Fridays and Sundays:
H. Yrigoyen 803, Vicente Lopez,

If you know anybody planning to go, please pass the
information on.

Dolores

Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 22:34:49 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Style of dancing in Sunderland (Villa Urquiza)

Sergio wrote:

"Sin Rumbo and Sunderland in Villa Urquiza are places very well known all
over the world because , people here dance Traditional Salon Tango. You will
see that the posture of the dancers is like the one shown by Rick in his
pictures. There could be special events at either club, then people
(outsiders) come from all over. On those occasions the style could be
different."

One of my favorite milongas in Buenos Aires is very traditional "Milonga Del
Mundo" on Saturday nights in Sunderland (Villa Urquiza). Here is a picture
of me dancing at this milonga couple months ago
(https://www.tangospring.com/tangoimages/BA2005milongaSunderland01.jpg). At
this very friendly milonga most of the people dance with friends and most of
the people dance in close embrace style which is also known as milonguero
style. The style is known as milonguero in Buenos Aires too - I have May
issue of Tangauta in front of me with quite a few ads promoting instruction
in Tango Milonguero.

Obviously there could be other milongas and special events in Sunderland on
other days when people might dance tango in other styles (open or flexible
frame for example). They might even play basketball there on those days.
Saturday Milonga del Mundo is not one of those days.


Cheers, Oleh Kovalchuke

https://TangioSpring.com

Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:35:45 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Sunderland, Villa Urquiza

Oleh says, in reference to Sunderland's milongas:

"At this very friendly milonga most of the people dance with friends and
most of
the people dance in close embrace style which is also known as milonguero
style. The style is known as milonguero in Buenos Aires too - I have May
issue of Tangauta in front of me with quite a few ads promoting instruction
in Tango Milonguero. "

I really think that it was easier to discuss the "wet noodle" embrace
brought up by Oleh than this subject. This is the **last time I am going to
say it** (a lot of people will sigh with relief) :))

Close embrace has at least *TWO* different styles :

1- Traditional salon Tango

2- Milonguero Style

The two styles are different despite of being done in close embrace.

The word milonguero is confusing because it means many things.

Most people in Argentina do not know anything about different tango styles.
Even the old milongueros . If you ask them what style of tango do you dance?
They will say: I dance tango.
If you insists for more precision they will say "Salon". This meaning social
tango vs.Stage tango.
Everyone is convinced that they are dancing "tango" irrelevant of any
special attribute. This is normal because tango is personal and reflects the
personality of the dancer, there are as many styles as dancers, so everyone
knows that his tango is different to that of the others.

Milonguero means many things, anything relative to the milongas for
instance, anyone that goes regularly to the milongas, anyone that dances
tango and is ordinary, vulgar, the old good tango dancers, dancing well,
dancing in street wise manner, being poised and self confident in his
talking or acting at the milongas, etc, etc. Any of those attributes would
apply even if the person in question only dances in open embrace and never
in close style.

So in Argentina Tango milonguero means tango well done, done with poise,
knowing what you are doing. To some it will mean the tango done by Susana,
cacho, Tete, and others.

I brought up the subject of different tango styles in the mid 90s. after I
read an article in the Clarin newspaper and described in this forum Salon
(traditional tango danced in Villa Urquiza), milonguero (the one danced by
Susana Miller, Cacho Dante, Tete and others) and Nuevo Tango (the one danced
by Gustavo Naveira, Fabian Salas, Chicho Frumboli and Pablo Veron).
That one undoubtedly was the first reference to those styles .

The words "Tango Milonguero" and "Ocho Milonguero" were new, had just
started to circulate.
That Style which became popular in the 50s. was known by other names : Club
style, Confiteria Style, Caquero Style, Tango del Centro). The terminology
that i used in that first note to tango-L stuck in the USA to certain extent
except that:

People in the USA think of "Milonguero" as any dancing done in close embrace
and "Salon" any dancing in open embrace.

I have spent many hours trying to explain that this is not correct because
"Salon" can be danced in close embrace and that this is different to the
close embrace of "Milonguero Style".

Most people in the USA still think of close embrace=milonguero.

I grew up in Villa Urquiza, I should know the clubs of my neighborhood and
what styles of tango people dance there. Sin Rumbo and Sunderland are two
clubs where the Salon Traditional style is taught and danced every week both
in open and close embrace. The openness or closeness of the embrace
naturally will vary with the available space at the floor and the time when
you arrive.
Open early or late when there is space and close embrace when it is crowded.

People come to these clubs from all over the world and portenos from all
over the city to learn the Traditional Salon Style . Some people all over
the world are calling the tango danced there "Villa Urquiza Style".

Why it is important to know all this? ... or perhaps it is not important at
all?...

...this note is long enough so we can discuss that in a different occasion.

Have a good day, Sergio

Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 18:04:27 -0700
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Sergio, I agree with you 100 per cent ..Re: [TANGO-L] Sunderland, Villa Urquiza

Dear Sergio:

I agree with you 100 per cent. People here in the USA
just do not "get it". They think they know all about
Argentina and they do not know. As you say, there is
no "close embrace Milongero Style" that has anything
to do with Argentina. Milongero is just the word for
a good dancer. The name and the style of this
so-called milongero dance was created here in the USA
by people in the United States who think they know all
about Argentine Tango, and most of them cannot even
speak Argentine Spanish. Here in Houston, for example,
the people who teach close embrace cannot speak the
Argentine Spanish language, are not themselves from
Argentina, and some of them have never been to
Argentina even once in the entire lives ever. The idea
that these people can teach Argentine Tango is just
absurd.

Now I am hearing that there are people living in
Buenos Aires who are trying to sell this dance back
the the USA for export to the ignorant. Apparently
they are now buying advertising in local BsAs
Magazines, to make it seem like the dance is local.
As you and others have said many times...until blue in
the face....the only people who dance this dance are
from outside the country, and most of them cannot even
dance with the local people at all because they do not
know how.

This whole business of close embrace milongero style
is just becoming another example of the Ugly American.
What is the deal? It is a USA dance, not an
Argentine dance. Sorry, but as a native of Houston,
Texas, I am embarrassed to see US citizens acting in
such a manner, just to make a buck. It just makes me
furious.

Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com

--- Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
wrote:

>
> I really think that it was easier to discuss the
> "wet noodle" embrace
> brought up by Oleh than this subject. This is the
> **last time I am going to
> say it** (a lot of people will sigh with relief) :))
>
> Close embrace has at least *TWO* different styles :
>
> 1- Traditional salon Tango
>
> 2- Milonguero Style
>
> The two styles are different despite of being done
> in close embrace.
>
> The word milonguero is confusing because it means
> many things.
>
> Most people in Argentina do not know anything about
> different tango styles.
> Even the old milongueros . If you ask them what
> style of tango do you dance?
> They will say: I dance tango.
> If you insists for more precision they will say
> "Salon". This meaning social
> tango vs.Stage tango.