1555 Waxing or waning?
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 15:06:35 -0700
From: Evan Wallace <evanw@INGENIUX.COM>
Subject: Waxing or waning?
I have had several debates recently about the state of the worldwide tango scene, and decided it was time to take the discussion to this =
forum.
It is the opinion of several promoters and teachers I have been talking with that attendance in workshops with visiting instructors, and also in =
local classes and milongas, has been down over the last year or so. From this they infer a decline in the size and vibrancy of the tango =
community worldwide, and that the growth of tango has peaked or is possibly in decline.
I don't believe this is true. I think the decreased attendance at any particular event is due to the tremendous increase in the number of =
workshops, classes, teachers, and dances over the past several years, resulting in lower *average* attendances at each event, even while the =
total size of the Tango community continues to grow.
The definitive answer to this question lies, of course, in knowing how many Tango dancers there are, and whether that number is going up or =
down. So, I'm curious: has anyone tried to do a head count of the worldwide tango community or estimate the number of dancers?
This is not a simple proposition. One would first have to define what constitutes a member of the tango community. Is it someone who dances at =
least once a month? Someone who takes at least two classes a month for three months or more? Would you count people in their first beginner's =
classes? Then would come the even harder task of counting or estimating these numbers worldwide.
Has anyone taken a shot at this, either quantitatively or qualitatively? What kind of experiences are you having in your communities? Are we =
waxing or waning? What is happening in other dance communities, like swing and salsa?
Evan Wallace
www.tango42.biz
Seattle, WA
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:38:38 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG>
Subject: Re: Waxing or waning?
>I have had several debates recently about the state of the worldwide
>tango scene, and decided it was time to take the discussion to this
>forum.
>
>It is the opinion of several promoters and teachers I have been
>talking with that attendance in workshops with visiting instructors,
>and also in local classes and milongas, has been down over the last
>year or so. From this they infer a decline in the size and vibrancy
>of the tango community worldwide, and that the growth of tango has
>peaked or is possibly in decline.
The Tango-L membership has slowly declined 5-10% in the last several years.
This is probably more of a metaphor than a true measure for worldwide
tango growth. It indicates that for every one who joined slightly
more un-subscribed.
My experience (limited as it is) leads me to believe that most
locations are a variation on the same theme: slow decline or slow
growth. The exceptions that I know of are smaller communities where
tango is new and fresh inspiration is generating growth.
Denver is a moderately mature community of 8 years since our VERY
first workshop. I keep a pretty broad mailing list of tango people,
that I purge regularly of non-active people. My list would indicate
relatively slow growth over the last four years. The Denver tango
club has also shown slow growth over the same period as measured by
end of year membership. Denver milongas and practicas have also shown
zero to slow growth, as measured by attendance.
We have more teachers than ever, and more beginners in classes. If
only growing slowly, then for some reason fewer people graduate from
class to community. I suspect that mature communities are less
welcoming to newcomers.
>This is not a simple proposition. One would first have to define
>what constitutes a member of the tango community. Is it someone who
>dances at least once a month? Someone who takes at least two classes
>a month for three months or more? Would you count people in their
>first beginner's classes? Then would come the even harder task of
>counting or estimating these numbers worldwide.
My rule of thumb is the following:
If the active community is 400 people, then 200 are beginners or not
really active, 200 are active monthly and 100 are active weekly.
Active means attending a milonga or practice. Class attendance is
something else entirely.
This rule MIGHT be applicable to other communities, which would
enable the possibility of estimating community size. Some communities
might be more dedicated (same people at all events); other
communities might be less dedicated (distinct attendance at each
event).
--
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org/
stermitz@tango.org
303-388-2560
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 16:18:04 -0400
From: John Gleeson <jgleeson@CONCENTRIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Waxing or waning?
> So, I'm curious: has anyone tried to do a head count of the worldwide
> tango community or estimate the number of dancers? This is not a simple
> proposition.
Why don't we ask George W. Bush or Tony Blair to do it - they did
such a wonderful job of finding and counting the WMDs :<)
John G.
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 16:18:04 -0400
From: John Gleeson <jgleeson@CONCENTRIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Waxing or waning?
> So, I'm curious: has anyone tried to do a head count
of the worldwide
> tango community or estimate the number of dancers?
This is not a
simple
> proposition.
Why don't we ask George W. Bush or Tony Blair to do it
- they did
such a wonderful job of finding and counting the WMDs
:<)
John G.
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 10:00:12 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Waxing or Waning
Tom Stermitz wrote:
>The Tango-L membership has slowly declined 5-10% in the last several
years.
>This is probably more of a metaphor than a true measure for worldwide
tango
>growth. It indicates that for every one who joined slightly more
un-subscribed.
In would be careful about interpreting membership in Tango-L as indicative
of the state of Tango in the world. First, some internet service
providers introduced screening software which blocked emails from the
listserver and eventually led to the cancellation of some subscriptions to
Tango-L. Second, many of the people who have quit Tango-L are highly
accomplished tango dancers. They simply found that Tango-L did not serve
their needs.
>My experience (limited as it is) leads me to believe that most
>locations are a variation on the same theme: slow decline or slow
>growth. The exceptions that I know of are smaller communities where
>tango is new and fresh inspiration is generating growth.
On this point, I think that Tom is correct. My own experiences of the
past year, however, suggests to me that many large cities are made up of
smaller communities. I think that finding ways to reach into those small
communities can result in stronger growth.
With best regards,
Steve
Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 19:00:54 +0100
From: Guy Williams <guyzen@FREEUK.COM>
Subject: Re: Waxing or Waning
> Tom Stermitz wrote:
>
> >The Tango-L membership has slowly declined 5-10% in the last several
> years.
>
Stephen Brown responded
>
> In would be careful about interpreting membership in Tango-L as indicative
> of the state of Tango in the world. ................. Second, many of the
people who have quit Tango-L are highly
> accomplished tango dancers. They simply found that Tango-L did not serve
> their needs.
>
> Steve
>
I agree with Steve; I prefer dancing to talking about it.
I am trying to understand why salsa is more popular here in the UK
I hypothesise:
1. It has a head start on Tango and we may catch up in time.
2. Salsa may be easier to learn ( a friend made this comment whilst learning
both) and people without patience and/or commitment may drop out.
3.The two dances attract people for different reasons.
My impression is that Tango is growing slowly in the UK.
Guy
