283  Don't disturb the follower (was centering)

Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:29:36 -0800
From: JeffryesSussex <doktordogg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Don't disturb the follower (was centering)

--- Clifton Chow <TangoPassionMoon@AOL.COM> wrote:

> First, I realised that some of them dance Tango like
> the salsa or disco,
> moving and swaying their upper bodies to a rhythm
> they hear in the Tango.

> Besides telling them outright
> to stop it, does anyone
> have any other suggestions?
>
> Second, many new followers, as may be expected, do
> not know Tango music very
> well. They seem to be so worried about knowing my

lead

> that they can't seem to
> relax and just let the music guide their rhythm.

I think in both cases you're talking about something
that needs to be addressed by instruction, not
leading. I've gone on record on this list with my
views about the proper sources of instruction:
classes/lessons conducted by teachers. It shouldn't
come from leaders, and never at milongas.

I've danced with beginners who bounced to the beat. I
doubt that it can be changed by the lead. There's a
certain amount of information that has to be
introduced by teachers. In the mean time, I can
imagine worse things than a woman bouncing to the
beat. At least a "bouncer" has time! Yayyy. The
musical understanding is there. If she continues to
study and begins to express her rhythmic understanding
more in a tango way, those will be some very nice
dances coming up.

This has been said many times. If the beginner you're
dancing with has problems like this, my advice is shut
up and dance to her level. That might mean walks and
weight shifts and nothing more.

Leaders can feel frustrated that there isn't more
happening in the dance because it seems like a
reflection on their leading ability. "If I'm a great
leader, she ought to be able to feel these ochos and
crosses, etc." Maybe a genius leader CAN improve a
beginner's dancing through the lead. However, the aim
never should be that. It's a little cruel to treat
one's partners as a "proving ground" for one's
leading.

I don't imagine women are so impressed by dances in
which they miraculously do things they hadn't done
before. I'm betting they like to be able to dance and
to look good while doing it. Maybe some would care to
respond to that.

This is what I would like to say about the "Centering"
thread...

You, as a leader, can't "center the follower". Don't
try.

A follower can dance and be on her center, or she
can't yet. It's up to her.

If a follower can center herself, what the leader can
do is avoid disturbing her center.

If she can't, it's up to her to seek instruction.
Leave her learning process to her. If you still want
to dance with her, find other good reasons.

The best way to avoid disturbing your partner's center
is having one of your own.

I've seen lots of debate about solo practice. I
believe it's a great idea. Naturally, it won't teach
you to partner. However, if you can do everything you
need to do by yourself, at least you have a chance at
not disturbing your partner's center. If you can't
stand up on your own two feet, guess what will happen
to your partner's center?

When partnering, there are the additional challenges
of accommodating one another's space and not confusing
turning and moving (you can't turn and move at the
same time).

I don't think a leader can center the follower, but I
think a good leader can lead and accommodate a
follower who has a center of her own.

Jai

Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:17:04 -0800 (PST)
From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] [OT] Men|Women|Dancing Ability [WAS Re: Don't
blame your follower]
To: shepherd@arborlaw.com, Huck Kennedy <huck@eninet.eas.asu.edu>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu

"And they cringe when they see the guys on 'Dancing With The Stars' wearing
spandex and gliding around...no matter how masterful and powerful the
dancing might be."

And rightly so. But maybe not for the same reasons as I do, which is an almost
complete lack of musicality, and absolutely atrocious music. "So You Think You
Can Dance" is a better show if you understand musicality in the least, and there
is much, much less posturing.

The song used in the Gap commercial was swing, not blues.
Music for The Gap Khaki Swing comes from Louis Prima???s swing number,
???Jump, Jive an??? Wail???, performed by Brian Setzer and Orchestra.
http://www.duncans.tv/2005/gap-khakis
They also did a commecial with line dancers using Dwight Yoakum's verison of
"Crazy Little Thing".

I have a few other minor quibbles with your post, (If women want men to dance,
they should not laugh at them or get frustrated with them when they don't get
it. One young woman was telling me recently that she though it was OK to
laugh at her boyfriend's mistakes. I advised he to think otherwise. He shook
his head in agreement.), but I agree with most of what you have written.


Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:40:06 -0700
From: <doug@swingfusion.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] [OT] Men|Women|Dancing Ability [WAS Re: Don't
blame your follower]
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>, <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>

<steve> The song used in the Gap commercial was swing, not blues.
Music for The Gap Khaki Swing comes from Louis Prima???s swing number,
???Jump, Jive an??? Wail???, performed by Brian Setzer and Orchestra.
</steve>

Wait. Way off topic, but I have to ?jump? into this. Prima did not play
swing, but rather jump blues. Brian Setzer plays rock and roll with horns.
Carol is a Lindy Hopper and knows her swing, and I am a Lindy Hopper/Balboa
dancer and Swing DJ who has served as head DJ at National Swing events. So
don?t go there. :-)

D. (doug@swingfusion.com)