4954 Flying into Buenos Aires
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:50:32 -0300
From: Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Flying into Buenos Aires
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Ahhhh the U.S. propaganda machine continues. Did your article also
state that in February that they rented equipment to bolster the system
until the new system could be installed? Nahhhh. Essentially the
Argentines admitted there was a problem and have taken steps to correct
it. Considering this defective country - when is the last time you head
of a plane in Argentina landing on a busy street? Or off the runaway?
Or into the Bay? All things that have happened and in the last 5 - 6
years in ....the U.S.
It is so interesting living here to see how the news gets skewed.
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 16:13:07 -0400
From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Flying into Buenos Aires
To: dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com, tango-l@mit.edu
Hi Deby,
I can understand your feelings, but I don't think this is any type of "U.S.
propaganda machine". It was just a small blurb in the Atlanta Journal &
Constitution. The article quoted the a world organization of controllers,
not any US sources. Here is a copy of the article from the Clarin, an
Argentine newspaper. I wont translate the whole thing but in a nutshell it
discusses a serious problem brought forward by the Argentine unions of
various trades of the aviation industry :
NEWSPAPER CLARIN May 16th 2007
Admiten que el sistema aireo esta "quebrado y colapsado", pero garantizan la
seguridad de los vuelos .
Asm lo seqala un comunicado elaborado por el Consejo de Seguridad Airea,
conformado por gremios y entidades del sector areonautico afines al
Gobierno. Del organismo no participan tres sindicatos fuertes, que son los
que denunciaron que el area Buenos Aires es insegura por la salida de
funcionamiento de los radares.
Sociedad
El Gobierno, entidades profesionales y gremios afines admitieron hoy que el
sistema aireo en el pams esta "colapsado" y "quebrado", pero, de todas
maneras, aseguraron que la seguridad de los vuelos "esta garantizada".
Asm lo seqals un comunicado emitido por el Consejo de Seguridad Airea. Este
organismo esta integrado por la Unisn de Aviadores de Lmneas Aireas, la
Asociacisn Argentina de Aeronavegantes, de azafatas y comisarios de a bordo,
la Asociacisn de Ticnicos y Empleados de Proteccisn y Seguridad a la
Aeronavegacisn (ATEPSA) y por una parte de los controladores y la Asociacisn
de Aviadores Civiles (AAAC).
El documento seqala que "para la OACI (Organizacisn de Aviacisn Civil
Internacional), para el Estado Nacional, para la Autoridad Aeronautica
Competente, para el Consejo de Seguridad Airea y para todos aquellos que
transiten nuestros cielos, la seguridad esta garantizada".
De todos modos, cabe destacar que no participan del Consejo tres sindicatos
fuertes del sector, que aseguran que el area Buenos Aires carece de
seguridad por la falta de funcionamiento de radares: la Asociacisn de
Pilotos de Lmneas Aireas (APLA), la Asociacisn de Controladores de
Transporte Aireo (ACTA) y la Asociacisn de Personal Ticnico (APTA).
Also, it's not fair to compare the number of airplane mishaps in Argentina
against the same in the USA. The sheer number of planes, flights, airports,
etc. In the USA must be hundreds or even thousands of times greater than in
Argentina or even most of South America combined.
Regards,
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
>From: Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>
>To: tango-l@mit.edu
>Subject: [Tango-L] Flying into Buenos Aires
>Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 15:50:32 -0300
>
>Ahhhh the U.S. propaganda machine continues. Did your article also
>state that in February that they rented equipment to bolster the system
>until the new system could be installed? Nahhhh. Essentially the
>Argentines admitted there was a problem and have taken steps to correct
>it. Considering this defective country - when is the last time you head
>of a plane in Argentina landing on a busy street? Or off the runaway?
>Or into the Bay? All things that have happened and in the last 5 - 6
>years in ....the U.S.
>
>It is so interesting living here to see how the news gets skewed.
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Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:21:58 +0200
From: Ecsedy Áron <aron@milonga.hu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Flying into Buenos Aires
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
Hi Manuel,
It is not unprecedented to have large runways without radar.
see: https://www.kentnews.co.uk/kent-news/Airport-without-radar-until-end-of-the-year-newsinkent1606.aspx
or FAA regulations at
https://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/PCG/N.HTM
Actually, international flight control regulations have very specific rules for approaching and landing on runways without radar.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_control
Also: I was in BsAs between 9 March and 1 April. We were on time, no hickups.
(However you should have seen what the German pilot did when we landed in Budapest (Frankfurt-Budapest)... He landed the plane like we were the first wave of an invading army: descent in a few minutes from high altitude (we were flying around 15kms at 1030km/h - we arrived ahead of schedule in a theoretically 1h40min flight after a 50min delay...), approaching the airport from an almost 90 degree-angle in patchy, but thick low altitude clouds, then stopping the turn towards the runway about a second before touchdown. I've heard the tires touching the runway at the same time I saw the first meter of asphalt under the wings. I almost clapped.)
Cheers,
Aron
R> I can understand your feelings, but I don't think this is any type of "U.S.
R> propaganda machine". It was just a small blurb in the Atlanta Journal &
R> Constitution. The article quoted the a world organization of controllers,
R> not any US sources. Here is a copy of the article from the Clarin, an
R> Argentine newspaper. I wont translate the whole thing but in a nutshell it
R> discusses a serious problem brought forward by the Argentine unions of
R> various trades of the aviation industry :
R> NEWSPAPER CLARIN May 16th 2007
R> Admiten que el sistema a?reo est? "quebrado y colapsado", pero garantizan la
R> seguridad de los vuelos .
R> As? lo se?ala un comunicado elaborado por el Consejo de Seguridad A?rea,
R> conformado por gremios y entidades del sector areon?utico afines al
R> Gobierno. Del organismo no participan tres sindicatos fuertes, que son los
R> que denunciaron que el ?rea Buenos Aires es insegura por la salida de
R> funcionamiento de los radares.
R> Sociedad
R> El Gobierno, entidades profesionales y gremios afines admitieron hoy que el
R> sistema a?reo en el pa?s est? "colapsado" y "quebrado", pero, de todas
R> maneras, aseguraron que la seguridad de los vuelos "est? garantizada".
R> As? lo se?al? un comunicado emitido por el Consejo de Seguridad A?rea. Este
R> organismo est? integrado por la Uni?n de Aviadores de L?neas A?reas, la
R> Asociaci?n Argentina de Aeronavegantes, de azafatas y comisarios de a bordo,
R> la Asociaci?n de T?cnicos y Empleados de Protecci?n y Seguridad a la
R> Aeronavegaci?n (ATEPSA) y por una parte de los controladores y la Asociaci?n
R> de Aviadores Civiles (AAAC).
R> El documento se?ala que "para la OACI (Organizaci?n de Aviaci?n Civil
R> Internacional), para el Estado Nacional, para la Autoridad Aeron?utica
R> Competente, para el Consejo de Seguridad A?rea y para todos aquellos que
R> transiten nuestros cielos, la seguridad est? garantizada".
R> De todos modos, cabe destacar que no participan del Consejo tres sindicatos
R> fuertes del sector, que aseguran que el ?rea Buenos Aires carece de
R> seguridad por la falta de funcionamiento de radares: la Asociaci?n de
R> Pilotos de L?neas A?reas (APLA), la Asociaci?n de Controladores de
R> Transporte A?reo (ACTA) y la Asociaci?n de Personal T?cnico (APTA).
R> Also, it's not fair to compare the number of airplane mishaps in Argentina
R> against the same in the USA. The sheer number of planes, flights, airports,
R> etc. In the USA must be hundreds or even thousands of times greater than in
R> Argentina or even most of South America combined.
R> Regards,
R> Manuel
Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 23:42:58 +0000
From: "Sergio Vandekier" <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Flying into Buenos Aires - Airfares
To: tango-l@mit.edu
In early March lightning destroyed the main radar at the airport of Ezeiza.
This occurrence has been used by certain unions to pressure the government
to increase their salaries.
The marked improvement of the Argentine economy (has grown about 8.5 - 9%
for 4 years in a row) caused most unions to demand increases in their
salaries (15 to 25%). The unions whose demands were met say that air traffic
into B.A. is totally safe. The unions that are not satisfied claim that it
is not.
This was compounded by an unprecedented congestion in air traffic to and
>from Argentina due to marked increase in tourism from abroad and national as
well.
The government stated that air traffic is safe. Flights are controlled
manually keeping aircrafts 10 minutes apart when necessary. Replacement
radars were sent from Spain and other smaller radars were rented as well.
Manual control of air traffic is the standard in many parts of the world.
A couple of years ago I reviewed the incidence of aircraft accidents all
over the world. Argentina (if i remember well) had 11 (counting private and
commercial planes) in 100 years; much less than most other parts of the
world. I remember that the worst record belonged to Russia's Aeroflot with
big accidents almost every year and sometimes two per year.
In summary : the only result of all this problems so far has been some delay
of flights. I have noticed similar delays in the USA as well.
As to the cheaper air fare for me over the years has been with Aerolineas
Argentinas.
I have paid between 450 dollars and 1000 dollars for round trip open for one
year from New York or from Miami.
Regards, Sergio
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:56:00 -0600
From: Clif Davis <clif@clifdavis.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Flying into Buenos Aires
To: tango-l@mit.edu
How about those riots yesterday in BsAs? Not a pretty sight.
Deby Novitz wrote:
> Ahhhh the U.S. propaganda machine continues. Did your article also
> state that in February that they rented equipment to bolster the system
> until the new system could be installed? Nahhhh. Essentially the
> Argentines admitted there was a problem and have taken steps to correct
> it. Considering this defective country - when is the last time you head
> of a plane in Argentina landing on a busy street? Or off the runaway?
> Or into the Bay? All things that have happened and in the last 5 - 6
> years in ....the U.S.
>
> It is so interesting living here to see how the news gets skewed.
>
>
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 11:50:06 -0400
From: "tangosmith@cox.net" <tangosmith@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Flying into Buenos Aires
To: clif@clifdavis.com, tango-l@mit.edu
Sounded almost as ugly as the one in Los Angeles a couple of weeks ago.
-----------------
Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 08:56:00 -0600
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Flying into Buenos Aires
How about those riots yesterday in BsAs? Not a pretty sight.
Deby Novitz wrote:
> Ahhhh the U.S. propaganda machine continues. Did your article also
> state that in February that they rented equipment to bolster the system
> until the new system could be installed? Nahhhh. Essentially the
> Argentines admitted there was a problem and have taken steps to correct
> it. Considering this defective country - when is the last time you head
> of a plane in Argentina landing on a busy street? Or off the runaway?
> Or into the Bay? All things that have happened and in the last 5 - 6
> years in ....the U.S.
>
> It is so interesting living here to see how the news gets skewed.
>
>
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