3926  Fraseo

Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:54:44 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Fraseo

Dear Linda,

There is no "Nationalism" in my thoughts, they are rather a mere reflection
of my observation.

To be more specific: Lack of rhythm applies mostly to the American
inhibited white male, it does not apply to women or to black people.

As to "Fraseo" Horacio Salgan, as you suspect, is referring to music and not
to dance.

What is "fraseo' in Music? A short musical thought: typically two to four
measures long, closing with a cadence. Cadence is a progression of chords
moving to a harmonic close, point of rest or sense of resolution.

What is "fraseo" in dancing? A series of dance movements comprising a
section of a pattern.

Ball room tango is danced in a series of set movements, a series of
slow-slow-quick-quick-slow or some other combinations of slows and quicks.
You are better off if you can adjust your sets of quicks and slows to the
musical phrase lasting 8 or 16 beats.

Argentine tango on the other hand gives you the liberty of walking all slows
if you wish, or you may pause, or you may sprinkle some slows mixed with
quicks but the important element here is that you step when you wish. It is
fundamental and basic that when you wish to step, that step *must* fall on a
beat. You cannot step off the beat. But you do not have to follow any
pattern of any kind. So you can step on every beat, on every second beat, on
every third beat or the way you wish.

So if "fraseo is a musical thought"...it is going to be "your" thought"
which you will express independently of the musical phrases.

So (IMO) to teach musical fraseo to a beginner of Argentine Tango is to make
him waste his time. (it does not matter the nationality of the instructor).

The dancer has to recognize the beat, period.
Then he can walk as it pleases him, preferably with some changes in
dynamics.

In this respect think of tango music as being a river that at times comes
down a mountain very fast, at times circulates in the plains, meandering and
very slowly, at times it almost stops, it pauses, but it undulates a little.
So try to dance fast to the rapid, stormy periods, slowly to the calm, sunny
weather, pause when necessary and dance the pause, shaking, rippling a
little, doing little movements, low boleos, circles or meneo, etc.

Step as you wish but it has to be on a beat. Eventually you will dance
differently to every orchestra.

It is obvious that you cannot dance the same way to Di Sarli, to Pugliese,
to Calo or to D'Arienzo.

But to learn to dance to the different orchestras takes a long time...it
frequently takes several years,
6 or 7 , of regular dancing to different types of tango music.

At the beginning the tendency will be to dance the same way to every
orchestra with little changes in dynamic , then you will notice that your
interpretation of some of the music is easy and you feel comfortable but
that you feel uneasy and frustrated with others. Finally arrives the
glorious day when you can dance properly to every orchestra.

Summary:

Musical "fraseo" (IMO) is irrelevant to dancing Tango Argentino because you
create your own "thoughts" or "frases", you step as you wish on the beat,
and then express your temper or feelings in the way you do it. You have
freedom to dance fast or slowly, to pause or not to pause, there is no
dictatorship of the music on your dancing . It is best if you show changes
in dynamics according to the spirit of the music at that particular moment.

Best regards, Sergio

Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 17:16:15 EDT
From: Bill King <Euroking@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Fraseo

Sergio,

I think the operative term you mention is "inhibited". Inhibitions are the
controlling factor, I don't think being white male, female or of color is the
controlling factor, although the relative occurrence of inhibitions might be
higher in one group over another, it is not the controlling factor. One's
environment and how one is raised in that environment and how one grows
psychologically and intellectually within that environment dictates the learning curve
when it comes to rhythm. Believing you don't have rhythm probably perpetrates a
self-fulfilling myth, a myth that over time might be a reality.

Inhibitions can arise from many factors, almost all of which we can overcome
if we try or believe. Fear of failing, looking ridiculous, being shunned
because of your inability to step and move to every beat, trying to memorize
complex biomechanical patterns and also remember you are the lead and the follows
depend on your lead, certainly doesn't add to the relaxation therapy of a
beginner. Throw in cultural motivations and expectations, and its a wonder that
dancing survives at all.

Reading this list it is evident there is a tremendous passion for Tango, a
passion that transcends words. Again trying to attain the skills to match these
expectations within a community again doesn't help a beginner relax. And it
is relaxation that offers the key to progress.

When I hear that AT is a very difficult dance to learn if not the most
difficult dance, it was a wonder why I tried or anyone tries. If it weren't for the
infectious and seemingly infinite variety of music, I would not have. But
the learning only began when I saw the opposite. AT is easy; it is the search
for competence and enjoyment that takes time and practice. I don't have to step
to every beat, step on beat -- yes, but not every beat. I don't have to worry
about leading variations of every move in every dance; I need to walk, to
feel and to give. Every piece is different every time. This is the path. Easy to
walk but difficult to master.

Releasing inhibitions is the answer. Some can never let go, some can
eliminate easier, and some have no inhibitions when it comes to dancing. But as a
Jesuit once said--- "All things are relative!"

Thank you,

Bill in Seattle

Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 03:42:17 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Race, gender, rhythm and fraseo.

Steve Pastor says:

(Re. White men not dancing to the music) "This happens not only at country
western places. I have also found a fair number of women, as well as men,
who don't dance to the music when dancing tango" .

Dear Steve, I discovered, after reading your note that most of my
observations of white males not dancing to the beat come from
"Country-Western" places. I like that music very much to the point that I
used to go dancing every night of the week. I use some two step music on
occasion, to inspire some of my country-western friends to do the tango
walk. :))

It is true, country-western places have an ambiance of cigarette smoke,
cowboys with some alcohol circulating in their veins, beautiful cow-girls
and great music to dance swing, rumba, cha-cha or waltz.
I used to mesmerize them, on occasion, by using the tango choreography to
some of that music.

In any case, you are right, most of those people are never on the beat, not
only by chance or mistake. This is not so prevalent in ballroom or tango.

As to fraseo, it seems that we all have developed our own way of teaching,
we use our own technique, we have our own music preference, our own little
secrets and they seem to work for most of us.

I am sure that fraseo is very useful for Tom (whom I consider a very good
teacher and dancer), I am used to "showing and doing" rather than talking,
so it is possible that when I walk with my students to teach musicality,
unconsciously I make them walk according to Tom's fraseo.

Summary: Use your own method to teach as long as it seems to work, fraseo
may be a useful tool to teach musicality. My note to Linda , where I said
dancing off the beat was mostly prevalent in white males, should have been
a private answer to her and went to the list by mistake.

With sincere apologies to everyone, Sergio

Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:46:50 -0400
From: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Race, gender, rhythm and fraseo.

Here is a perfect illustration of why white men can't dance:

https://www.popculturemag.com/opinion/skippo/dance.html

Seth

On 10/27/05, Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Steve Pastor says:
>
> (Re. White men not dancing to the music) "This happens not only at country
> western places. I have also found a fair number of women, as well as men,
> who don't dance to the music when dancing tango" .
>
> Dear Steve, I discovered, after reading your note that most of my
> observations of white males not dancing to the beat come from
> "Country-Western" places. I like that music very much to the point that I
> used to go dancing every night of the week. I use some two step music on
> occasion, to inspire some of my country-western friends to do the tango
> walk. :))
>
> It is true, country-western places have an ambiance of cigarette smoke,
> cowboys with some alcohol circulating in their veins, beautiful cow-girls
> and great music to dance swing, rumba, cha-cha or waltz.
> I used to mesmerize them, on occasion, by using the tango choreography to
> some of that music.
>
> In any case, you are right, most of those people are never on the beat,
> not
> only by chance or mistake. This is not so prevalent in ballroom or tango.
>
> As to fraseo, it seems that we all have developed our own way of teaching,
>
> we use our own technique, we have our own music preference, our own little
> secrets and they seem to work for most of us.
>
> I am sure that fraseo is very useful for Tom (whom I consider a very good
> teacher and dancer), I am used to "showing and doing" rather than talking,
>
> so it is possible that when I walk with my students to teach musicality,
> unconsciously I make them walk according to Tom's fraseo.
>
> Summary: Use your own method to teach as long as it seems to work, fraseo
> may be a useful tool to teach musicality. My note to Linda , where I said
> dancing off the beat was mostly prevalent in white males, should have been
> a private answer to her and went to the list by mistake.
>
> With sincere apologies to everyone, Sergio
>

!

>