3948  Is tango universal?

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 03:13:01 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Is tango universal?

Aron says: " I believe there is nothing mystical about this: tango has a
little from the
values and vices of almost every social class, using the cultural heritage
of dozens of ethnicities, mixed in the pan of the developing Buenos Aires
and Montevideo, then later involving more than half the planet in the
process. No suprise people of any class and nationality will find something
interesting in it."

Tango (IMO) the same as Jazz and the blues, Rebetica or Fado originated in
certain places, and under very specific circumstances.

They are a unique product of a particular period, a place and its
circumstances. They are the artistic expression of poor disenfranchised,
displaced people inhabiting an underworld somewhat distant from the frame of
morality and the law.

The new musical forms originally despised by the ruling classes were finally
accepted as an expression of their own culture.

Tango is the product of a generation of Argentines, descendants from
Europeans (mostly Italians that were musicians and taught music to their
children). Its components are the Milonga Campera, a musical form from rural
areas, el candombe, a dance performed by African slaves that had been born
in Argentina, the Habanera another dance arriving from Cuba that had its
origins in the interaction of African and Spanish elements, and finally the
tanguillo espan`ol (a musical form Southern Spain).

Those elements produced the Argentine tango only in Buenos Aires and in
Montevideo around 1880 due to the interaction of the gaucho (the argentine
cowboy), the compadrito (an urban character of the underworld), the blacks
and the European immigrants.

Argentines are not envious of anything from Montevideo or Uruguayan as we
consider each other as brothers. Argentina and Uruguay were part of a same
nation for most of their history, we are very similar racially and
culturally. Tango is not the only thing that we have in common. We share the
same history, the same language, the same religion, the same race our
economies are interdependent.

Tango is then a creation of those people, inhabitants of the periphery of
B.A and Montevideo..
Any foreign deviation of the original recipe created something (better or
worse) different from Argentine Tango. Some Argentines may have accepted
some variations in choreography inspired in Europe or musical influences
from jazz.

American, International or Finish tango are beautiful musical variations and
dances but they certainly are not Argentine tango.

The magic of the our tango derives from the embrace, the communication, the
feeling, the freedom to create, the unique music, the extraordinary lyrics,
the richness of its choreography.
As tango evolves in Argentina it maintains those characteristics.

Tango revival lasts now for 15 - 20 years. During this period tango
communities have developed all over the world. To the credit of foreign
dancers we have the fact that they traveled to Buenos Aires to learn the
culture and /or brought Argentine instructors to develop their groups.
Now we have a new generation of vibrant foreign dancers and excellent
teachers many extremely creative in terms of musical shows and exhibitions.
Most of them play by authentic rules as hey know that the moment they
deviate they are creating something different.

Rebetica, also known as `Greek Blues,' featuring violin, guitar, oud and a
variety of stringed instruments (cembalo, lyre) accompanying some of the
most impassioned and beautiful vocals ever recorded. Rebetica, like American
country blues, was the music of the lower classes in Greece and Asia Minor(
Turkey) and was concerned with lost love, impending death, hashish, sex,
prison, gambling and other pursuits of the underworld, often played in dance
rhythms.

Fado is a type of folk music which most likely originated in the 1820s in
Portugal. It is characterized by mournful tunes and lyrics, often about the
sea or the life of the poor. The music is usually linked to the Portuguese
word saudade (a word with no accurate equivalent in English; being a type of
longing, it conveys a complex mixture of sadness, pain, nostalgia, happiness
and love), and its origins are probably from a mixture of African slave
rhythms with traditional music of Portuguese sailors, with Arabic influence.
Some theories say it was derived from Brazilian music styles like Lundum and
Modinha.

Out of the four musical forms that I provide as examples : Jazz and Blues,
Rebetica, Fado and Tango,
only Jazz and tango acquired a universal expression.

Yes art belongs to everyone, to the whole human race, to enjoy, to create,
to modify.

But... most of the Western art of the world is within Italy, a big portion
in France and Spain. Some in Greece, the Hellenic cities of Anatolia and
Egypt. I do not wish to ignore the Great German musicians or the Russian
contribution to literature or the Dutch painters, I am sure every nation is
proud of some artistic achievement. All those creative explosions occurred
at certain time, in certain places and under specific circumstances that are
difficult to reproduce.
The more alienated you are of the original culture the more distant your
artistic production will be from the original one.

Summary: tango is unique, it has a life of its own. It resides and thrives
where it is respected, it wilts and metamorphoses into something different
when it is not respected or becomes contaminated with estrange elements.
...On the other hand: There is no dictatorship, you may dance as you wish,
you may write the music that pleases you, there is no obsession with purity.

Best regards, Sergio

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:15:08 -0800
From: Randy Fisher <randyafisher@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Is tango universal?

Thank you Sergio!

I would like add an element. When something is being formulated or named is
there a cut off or deadline for the essential ingredients to include in its'
name. I think if we look around tango included a great many things that have
been lost through the filters of perception and time. There were many things
that we think are new and 'not tango' that were in tango as it was
developing. I am speaking only in Argentina and Uruguay for simplicity sake.

If we keep our eyes, heart, and mind open we will see the changes are not as
far as we believe. We see little pieces of evidence through history that
show nothing is new and they were doing amazing crazy strange things that if
we saw now we would say 'that is not tango'. It is really a change if it was
in someones' version of tango from Argentina. I am looking for inclusiveness
because and I realize there will always be people who will frown because
they can't see sameness. History is important and I love paying homage to
history, but it is history that shows our connection. It shows us mistake
after mistake and we repeat it and repeat it over and over again. Some day
we will find the thing that pulls us together in embrace it will be
universal and it may be tango.

Randy Fisher, San Francisco

> From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
> Reply-To: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 03:13:01 +0000
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [TANGO-L] Is tango universal?
>
> Aron says: " I believe there is nothing mystical about this: tango has a
> little from the
> values and vices of almost every social class, using the cultural heritage
> of dozens of ethnicities, mixed in the pan of the developing Buenos Aires
> and Montevideo, then later involving more than half the planet in the
> process. No suprise people of any class and nationality will find something
> interesting in it."
>
> Tango (IMO) the same as Jazz and the blues, Rebetica or Fado originated in
> certain places, and under very specific circumstances.
>
> They are a unique product of a particular period, a place and its
> circumstances. They are the artistic expression of poor disenfranchised,
> displaced people inhabiting an underworld somewhat distant from the frame of
> morality and the law.
>
> The new musical forms originally despised by the ruling classes were finally
> accepted as an expression of their own culture.
>
> Tango is the product of a generation of Argentines, descendants from
> Europeans (mostly Italians that were musicians and taught music to their
> children). Its components are the Milonga Campera, a musical form from rural
> areas, el candombe, a dance performed by African slaves that had been born
> in Argentina, the Habanera another dance arriving from Cuba that had its
> origins in the interaction of African and Spanish elements, and finally the
> tanguillo espan`ol (a musical form Southern Spain).
>
> Those elements produced the Argentine tango only in Buenos Aires and in
> Montevideo around 1880 due to the interaction of the gaucho (the argentine
> cowboy), the compadrito (an urban character of the underworld), the blacks
> and the European immigrants.
>
> Argentines are not envious of anything from Montevideo or Uruguayan as we
> consider each other as brothers. Argentina and Uruguay were part of a same
> nation for most of their history, we are very similar racially and
> culturally. Tango is not the only thing that we have in common. We share the
> same history, the same language, the same religion, the same race our
> economies are interdependent.
>
> Tango is then a creation of those people, inhabitants of the periphery of
> B.A and Montevideo..
> Any foreign deviation of the original recipe created something (better or
> worse) different from Argentine Tango. Some Argentines may have accepted
> some variations in choreography inspired in Europe or musical influences
> from jazz.
>
> American, International or Finish tango are beautiful musical variations and
> dances but they certainly are not Argentine tango.
>
> The magic of the our tango derives from the embrace, the communication, the
> feeling, the freedom to create, the unique music, the extraordinary lyrics,
> the richness of its choreography.
> As tango evolves in Argentina it maintains those characteristics.
>
> Tango revival lasts now for 15 - 20 years. During this period tango
> communities have developed all over the world. To the credit of foreign
> dancers we have the fact that they traveled to Buenos Aires to learn the
> culture and /or brought Argentine instructors to develop their groups.
> Now we have a new generation of vibrant foreign dancers and excellent
> teachers many extremely creative in terms of musical shows and exhibitions.
> Most of them play by authentic rules as hey know that the moment they
> deviate they are creating something different.
>
> Rebetica, also known as `Greek Blues,' featuring violin, guitar, oud and a
> variety of stringed instruments (cembalo, lyre) accompanying some of the
> most impassioned and beautiful vocals ever recorded. Rebetica, like American
> country blues, was the music of the lower classes in Greece and Asia Minor(
> Turkey) and was concerned with lost love, impending death, hashish, sex,
> prison, gambling and other pursuits of the underworld, often played in dance
> rhythms.
>
> Fado is a type of folk music which most likely originated in the 1820s in
> Portugal. It is characterized by mournful tunes and lyrics, often about the
> sea or the life of the poor. The music is usually linked to the Portuguese
> word saudade (a word with no accurate equivalent in English; being a type of
> longing, it conveys a complex mixture of sadness, pain, nostalgia, happiness
> and love), and its origins are probably from a mixture of African slave
> rhythms with traditional music of Portuguese sailors, with Arabic influence.
> Some theories say it was derived from Brazilian music styles like Lundum and
> Modinha.
>
> Out of the four musical forms that I provide as examples : Jazz and Blues,
> Rebetica, Fado and Tango,
> only Jazz and tango acquired a universal expression.
>
> Yes art belongs to everyone, to the whole human race, to enjoy, to create,
> to modify.
>
> But... most of the Western art of the world is within Italy, a big portion
> in France and Spain. Some in Greece, the Hellenic cities of Anatolia and
> Egypt. I do not wish to ignore the Great German musicians or the Russian
> contribution to literature or the Dutch painters, I am sure every nation is
> proud of some artistic achievement. All those creative explosions occurred
> at certain time, in certain places and under specific circumstances that are
> difficult to reproduce.
> The more alienated you are of the original culture the more distant your
> artistic production will be from the original one.
>
> Summary: tango is unique, it has a life of its own. It resides and thrives
> where it is respected, it wilts and metamorphoses into something different
> when it is not respected or becomes contaminated with estrange elements.
> ...On the other hand: There is no dictatorship, you may dance as you wish,
> you may write the music that pleases you, there is no obsession with purity.
>
> Best regards, Sergio
>
>

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 10:51:58 -0800
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: Re: Is tango universal?

What differentiates dances.

Ability to dance with each other. If we are able and enjoy dancing with each
other, we are dancing the same dance. If not, if we have different type of
connection, different technique, different view of what is good and what is
not, if we consider differences in each other as mistakes - we do not
understand each other, we do not enjoy each other, we do not dance the same
dance.

One of us should learn another dance.

I have seen a lesson recently, when a young beautiful couple taught a linear
boleo to the group of older people and beginners. They can hardly walk
together, but given a lesson on a linear boleo! They came to learn Argentine
Tango, but were given a lesson of Neo Tango. Will it help them in on their
way?

Igor Polk from San Francisco.

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 11:23:17 -0800
From: Iron Logic <railogic@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Is tango universal?

Sergio says >>>>
Most of them play by authentic rules as hey know that the moment they
deviate they are creating something different.

>>>

Are you then suggesting Chicho, Fabian etc created something different? And is not Argentine Tango?
IL

Randy Fisher <randyafisher@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
Thank you Sergio!

I would like add an element. When something is being formulated or named is
there a cut off or deadline for the essential ingredients to include in its'
name. I think if we look around tango included a great many things that have
been lost through the filters of perception and time. There were many things
that we think are new and 'not tango' that were in tango as it was
developing. I am speaking only in Argentina and Uruguay for simplicity sake.

If we keep our eyes, heart, and mind open we will see the changes are not as
far as we believe. We see little pieces of evidence through history that
show nothing is new and they were doing amazing crazy strange things that if
we saw now we would say 'that is not tango'. It is really a change if it was
in someones' version of tango from Argentina. I am looking for inclusiveness
because and I realize there will always be people who will frown because
they can't see sameness. History is important and I love paying homage to
history, but it is history that shows our connection. It shows us mistake
after mistake and we repeat it and repeat it over and over again. Some day
we will find the thing that pulls us together in embrace it will be
universal and it may be tango.

Randy Fisher, San Francisco

> From: Sergio Vandekier
> Reply-To: Sergio Vandekier
> Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 03:13:01 +0000
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [TANGO-L] Is tango universal?
>
> Aron says: " I believe there is nothing mystical about this: tango has a
> little from the
> values and vices of almost every social class, using the cultural heritage
> of dozens of ethnicities, mixed in the pan of the developing Buenos Aires
> and Montevideo, then later involving more than half the planet in the
> process. No suprise people of any class and nationality will find something
> interesting in it."
>
> Tango (IMO) the same as Jazz and the blues, Rebetica or Fado originated in
> certain places, and under very specific circumstances.
>
> They are a unique product of a particular period, a place and its
> circumstances. They are the artistic expression of poor disenfranchised,
> displaced people inhabiting an underworld somewhat distant from the frame of
> morality and the law.
>
> The new musical forms originally despised by the ruling classes were finally
> accepted as an expression of their own culture.
>
> Tango is the product of a generation of Argentines, descendants from
> Europeans (mostly Italians that were musicians and taught music to their
> children). Its components are the Milonga Campera, a musical form from rural
> areas, el candombe, a dance performed by African slaves that had been born
> in Argentina, the Habanera another dance arriving from Cuba that had its
> origins in the interaction of African and Spanish elements, and finally the
> tanguillo espan`ol (a musical form Southern Spain).
>
> Those elements produced the Argentine tango only in Buenos Aires and in
> Montevideo around 1880 due to the interaction of the gaucho (the argentine
> cowboy), the compadrito (an urban character of the underworld), the blacks
> and the European immigrants.
>
> Argentines are not envious of anything from Montevideo or Uruguayan as we
> consider each other as brothers. Argentina and Uruguay were part of a same
> nation for most of their history, we are very similar racially and
> culturally. Tango is not the only thing that we have in common. We share the
> same history, the same language, the same religion, the same race our
> economies are interdependent.
>
> Tango is then a creation of those people, inhabitants of the periphery of
> B.A and Montevideo..
> Any foreign deviation of the original recipe created something (better or
> worse) different from Argentine Tango. Some Argentines may have accepted
> some variations in choreography inspired in Europe or musical influences
> from jazz.
>
> American, International or Finish tango are beautiful musical variations and
> dances but they certainly are not Argentine tango.
>
> The magic of the our tango derives from the embrace, the communication, the
> feeling, the freedom to create, the unique music, the extraordinary lyrics,
> the richness of its choreography.
> As tango evolves in Argentina it maintains those characteristics.
>
> Tango revival lasts now for 15 - 20 years. During this period tango
> communities have developed all over the world. To the credit of foreign
> dancers we have the fact that they traveled to Buenos Aires to learn the
> culture and /or brought Argentine instructors to develop their groups.
> Now we have a new generation of vibrant foreign dancers and excellent
> teachers many extremely creative in terms of musical shows and exhibitions.
> Most of them play by authentic rules as hey know that the moment they
> deviate they are creating something different.
>
> Rebetica, also known as `Greek Blues,' featuring violin, guitar, oud and a
> variety of stringed instruments (cembalo, lyre) accompanying some of the
> most impassioned and beautiful vocals ever recorded. Rebetica, like American
> country blues, was the music of the lower classes in Greece and Asia Minor(
> Turkey) and was concerned with lost love, impending death, hashish, sex,
> prison, gambling and other pursuits of the underworld, often played in dance
> rhythms.
>
> Fado is a type of folk music which most likely originated in the 1820s in
> Portugal. It is characterized by mournful tunes and lyrics, often about the
> sea or the life of the poor. The music is usually linked to the Portuguese
> word saudade (a word with no accurate equivalent in English; being a type of
> longing, it conveys a complex mixture of sadness, pain, nostalgia, happiness
> and love), and its origins are probably from a mixture of African slave
> rhythms with traditional music of Portuguese sailors, with Arabic influence.
> Some theories say it was derived from Brazilian music styles like Lundum and
> Modinha.
>
> Out of the four musical forms that I provide as examples : Jazz and Blues,
> Rebetica, Fado and Tango,
> only Jazz and tango acquired a universal expression.
>
> Yes art belongs to everyone, to the whole human race, to enjoy, to create,
> to modify.
>
> But... most of the Western art of the world is within Italy, a big portion
> in France and Spain. Some in Greece, the Hellenic cities of Anatolia and
> Egypt. I do not wish to ignore the Great German musicians or the Russian
> contribution to literature or the Dutch painters, I am sure every nation is
> proud of some artistic achievement. All those creative explosions occurred
> at certain time, in certain places and under specific circumstances that are
> difficult to reproduce.
> The more alienated you are of the original culture the more distant your
> artistic production will be from the original one.
>
> Summary: tango is unique, it has a life of its own. It resides and thrives
> where it is respected, it wilts and metamorphoses into something different
> when it is not respected or becomes contaminated with estrange elements.
> ...On the other hand: There is no dictatorship, you may dance as you wish,
> you may write the music that pleases you, there is no obsession with purity.
>
> Best regards, Sergio
>
>