100 Keep It Simple Nice and Easy
Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 01:11:06 EDT
From: Arthur Greenberg <AHGberg@AOL.COM>
Subject: Keep It Simple Nice and Easy
Hi Learning Dancers:
There is so much that I was supposed to learn when I first started my
initiation into the art of dancing the Argentine Tango.
First....we want you to learn how to walk. No one told me that it was a
specialized type of walk; a Tango Dance Walk. When I had "mastered" the walk
solo (by myself without partner for about 15 minutes) I was provided with a
partner, a rather large young lady, approx 5'-11" and solidly built, I guess
she weighed in at 160 pounds.(all of it very nicely arranged on her lovely
female body.) Let's just call her, "Blondie"! Blondie was instructed to
provide me with some resistance to my forward motion while leaning toward me
to "retard" my forward walk. We assumed our dance hold and commenced. 10
minutes later we were "totally drenched with perspiration". We were both
quite exhausted from this effort and we both required some rest from this
vigorous exercise. Included in her mission was the extension from the hip as
well as an extended ankle, with her toe stretching backward to its farthest
point and a controlled roll-down from the toe, then to the ball of her foot
and then to avoid her putting any weight on her heel as she commenced her
next step (of course brushing the inside of her ankles and knees as one leg
passed the other. (By this time I was ready for a shower and a complete
change of clothes!) Blondie looked as if someone hit her with a full pail of
water. She was dripping wet! (She also was in need of a shower but I
hesitated to suggest it!) Perhaps some improvement in the air conditioning
might have helped. (But I doubt it!)
Walking to the Cross was the second mission for Blondie. It was explained to
me that I led this cross when I brought my right foot up to and closed it to
my left foot, changing weight. This had to be accomplished by stepping
outside my partner without us losing contact with each other's upper chest
and the integrity of our hold was maintained. .
The resolution followed. Half of a "Waltz Step", forward left, side right,
close left to right achieving about a "quarter of a turn". The Lady does the
counterpart.
We thanked each other profusely for the rigorous exercise we both experienced
in each other's arms and said, "Good Night"! As Blondie left she turned to
me and said, "We certainly got to know each other's body very well!"
I never saw Blondie again !
There must be a moral to this tale!
Sincerely,
Arturo
AHGberg@aol.com
West Palm Beach, Florida, USA
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:09:31 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
When I read...
integrating more steps
develop complex figures
porteno tango look
waiting times
ornaments
as topics for workshops, I want to cry and scream because the tango I know
in Buenos Aires isn't being shared in my country. It's a crime that people
get a counterfeit rather than the genuine.
Janis
(born in the USA and living in Argentina for 9 years)
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:22:02 +0200
From: "Krasimir Stoyanov" <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
Janis,
Nobody will understand you, I'm afraid. Every time, when I try to explain to
someone that his/her "tango" is not quite tango, he/she is puzzled at best
(thinks I am not in my right mind) or sees offence in my words at worst.
----- Original Message -----
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 11:09:54 -0700
From: <doug@swingfusion.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
Janice wrote:
>> I want to cry and scream because the tango I know
>> in Buenos Aires isn't being shared in my country. It's a crime that
people
>> get a counterfeit rather than the genuine.
Perhaps you would want to comment directly to Susana Miller?
So what is this tango that you are talking about. I've not been to BaAs, so
perhaps you could point me at a clear video or two that you feel fairly
represents the dance that you know.
Thank you,
Doug
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:14:50 -0800
From: "Brick Robbins" <brick@fastpack.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<ca2c2380801141014g7c6f888dp81e795d835307d5d@mail.gmail.com>
"Janis Kenyon" wrote:
>I want to cry and scream because the tango I know
>in Buenos Aires isn't being shared in my country. It's a crime that people
>get a counterfeit rather than the genuine.
While I recognize the "holy trinity of tango"
* Tango the dance * Tango the music * Tango the culture
The culture and music aside for the moment, the dance of tango is
still that, a dance.
Why is it so important to some people that the dance of tango,
worldwide, only be danced as it is (or was) danced in the traditional
milongas of BsA? Is that the only "genuine true tango?" All else
"counterfeit tango?"
What exactly is the problem with the people of Europe, Asia, North
America, or even those who frequent "Practica X" in BsA, taking tango
in their own directions? The dance is a living thing expressed through
the bodies and hearts of those dancing it, it is not a dead "thing"
sitting in a jar of formaldehyde to be preserved.
Of course, this is not a rejection of the great music, culture and
dance of the golden era of tango, but a questioning of those who seem
to want to limit tango to only "what was."
Respectfully submitted.
Brick Robbins
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 10:28:27 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
Have you ever considered that quite possibly the actual
workshops might reflect the tango in BsAs? Unless one
actually takes the workshop, I don't see the point in
criticizing it.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Janis Kenyon <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> wrote:
> When I read...
>
> integrating more steps
> develop complex figures
> porteno tango look
> waiting times
> ornaments
>
> as topics for workshops, I want to cry and scream because
> the tango I know
> in Buenos Aires isn't being shared in my country. It's a
> crime that people
> get a counterfeit rather than the genuine.
>
>
> Janis
> (born in the USA and living in Argentina for 9 years)
>
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
http://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:10:18 +1100
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
To: "'Krasimir Stoyanov'" <krasimir@krasimir.com>, Tango-L
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0256643C9B@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
Krasimir,
Sure, most 'beginners' don't understand, but anyone who has danced for more than a couple of years and has been to BsAs gets the picture. However, it is a reality of life that most people want to get applause.
After they have been dancing a few years they get someone asking them one day - hey I am putting on a show or need a performance for a milonga - want to be in it?
Suddenly they think wow *me* perform (or teach or whatever)... Little do they know that this sort of invitation is usually extended for very selfish reasons, or maybe they don't care because the lure of having their moment of 'fame' brings on a voluntary naivet?.
Don't underestimate the power of this sort of inducement.
You suddenly see people doing uncharacteristic things which can include, at best, a negative impact on their dancing.
For example, how many of these aspiring Javiers and Geraldines have not yet mastered basic things like posture? A lot, in my experience, because they are focussed on something else entirely. They think they are great dancers, but the reality is they would not last five minutes in a ballet class, for instance, because they just don't have any real discipline and in many cases not even a reasonable level of fitness or flexibility.
The 'lure of performance' can also lead people to bad choices in their personal lives, a far more serious matter because it can generate a lot of hurt and angst as opposed to simple bad dancing. But that is a whole other fascinating topic out of the scope of this thread.
Personally, I would far prefer to just keep working on my core social dance than perform and in time try and emulate someone like El Nene rather than Gavito. But I think you will find this sort of attitude is in the minority. The lure of performance, teaching (which can be another sort of performance) etc is just too strong.
Hence there will always be a demand for workshops to 'develop complex figures' and the flip side is you will get people walking out apparently bored when the most subtle and beautiful things are being taught by a living legend of the dance.
Victor Bennetts
>Behalf Of Krasimir Stoyanov
>
>Janis,
>Nobody will understand you, I'm afraid. Every time, when I try to >explain to
>someone that his/her "tango" is not quite tango, he/she is puzzled at >best
>(thinks I am not in my right mind) or sees offence in my words at >worst.
>From: "Janis Kenyon"
>> When I read...
>>
>> integrating more steps
>> develop complex figures
>> porteno tango look
>> waiting times
>> ornaments
>>
>> as topics for workshops, I want to cry and scream because the tango >I know
>> in Buenos Aires isn't being shared in my country. It's a crime >that
>> people
>> get a counterfeit rather than the genuine.
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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:17:34 +1100
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0256643C9E@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
In many cases the topics for lessons are actually suggested by the host, not the teacher from BsAs, as it is a matter of marketing. Surprising isn't it? However that is what I have seen happen in the past.
Victor Bennetts
>Perhaps you would want to comment directly to Susana Miller?
>Doug
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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:30 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
> integrating more steps
> develop complex figures
> porteno tango look
> waiting times
> ornaments
Crikey. The tango teaching scene hereabout sure has some problems but at
least it does not have Susana Miller.
--
Chris
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:38:54 +1100
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0256643CAB@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
>>From what I have seen Susana Miller is a good teacher with a very individual beautiful dance. To me the list of topics seems a little out of character, in fact, hence my suggestion that they may have been dictated by the host or are being taken out of context. Who knows, but I would take a lesson with Susana Miller any time, she's great, which I would not say for every teacher out of BsAs or even most of them.
Victor Bennetts
> integrating more steps
> develop complex figures
> porteno tango look
> waiting times
> ornaments
>>Crikey. The tango teaching scene hereabout sure has some problems >>but at
>>least it does not have Susana Miller.
>>Chris
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Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 11:57:03 +1100
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0256643CB0@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
All praise to Google! For anyone interested, the below that originally came from Janis appears to be a highly selective extract of the full text that is as follows:
Programa Work Shops 07:
1) All levels. Posture, Rythm, walking, Embrace, Balance.
2) How to integrate more steps to your coreographies. Only little details. Balance and ornaments for womwn. II and III levels.
3) How to develope from simple basics more complex figures. Keys to make a charming dance. III level.
4) Technique to dance Pugliese. Waiting times. Boleos. III level.
5) Milonga caminada and traspi?. How to change from traspi? to slow speed. III level.
6) Vals. Special walkings (That work is also for tango). Turns and counter turns. II and III level.
7) How to dance on 'a dime'. Milongueros movements. Porte?o- tango look and feeling. III level.
8) Technique for women. Balance, Ornaments, turns and 8 atr?s. Lightness and Presence.
9) Technique for men. How to make a grounded dance.
That can be found http://www.susanamiller.com.ar/programa.htm#ing
This all makes a lot more sense (and I am sure would make even more sense in the original Spanish) and thanks Janis for leading me on this chain of inquiry otherwise I would not have got onto looking at Susana's site and would not have posted a link to it. Great teachers like her deserve all the exposure they can get, even if they are pretty good at self promotion already ;-).
Victor Bennetts
> integrating more steps
> develop complex figures
> porteno tango look
> waiting times
> ornaments
>>Crikey. The tango teaching scene hereabout sure has some problems >>but at
>>least it does not have Susana Miller.
>>Chris
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:41:40 -0600
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
To: "Brick Robbins" <brick@fastpack.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<cff24c340801142041s61e1be96q5dc2e51425b8fac5@mail.gmail.com>
On 1/14/08, Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com> wrote:
> "Janis Kenyon" wrote:
> >I want to cry and scream because the tango I know
> >in Buenos Aires isn't being shared in my country. It's a crime that people
> >get a counterfeit rather than the genuine.
>
> While I recognize the "holy trinity of tango"
> * Tango the dance * Tango the music * Tango the culture
>
> The culture and music aside for the moment, the dance of tango is
> still that, a dance.
>
> Why is it so important to some people that the dance of tango,
> worldwide, only be danced as it is (or was) danced in the traditional
> milongas of BsA? Is that the only "genuine true tango?" All else
> "counterfeit tango?"
>
> What exactly is the problem with the people of Europe, Asia, North
> America, or even those who frequent "Practica X" in BsA, taking tango
> in their own directions? The dance is a living thing expressed through
> the bodies and hearts of those dancing it, it is not a dead "thing"
> sitting in a jar of formaldehyde to be preserved.
>
> Of course, this is not a rejection of the great music, culture and
> dance of the golden era of tango, but a questioning of those who seem
> to want to limit tango to only "what was."
>
Why would you want to ignore the culture and music of contemporary
Argentine tango as danced in the milongas of Buenos Aires TODAY?
Why would you want to adopt a form of tango that is not designed for
the milonga dance floor and use it on the milonga dance floor,
anywhere in the world?
Why would you want to ignore the music that has satisfied generations
of porten~os in the milongas of Buenos Aires, including those dancing
TODAY, and replace it with music that has been designed for another
purpose?
What do you know that thousands of porten~os who dance tango TODAY
(and tens of thousands from the past) do not know about tango?
Of course, if you live in a democratic society you have the freedom
the dance however you want to whatever music you want. The confusion
comes when you call your dance 'tango' and the gathering where you
dance a 'milonga'. Call it something else so you won't mislead people
into thinking they are going to encounter an genuinely Argentine dance
in an environment that resembles the Argentine gathering.
Argentine social tango is neither dead nor preserved in formaldehyde.
It is danced NOW at numerous places every night of the week in Buenos
Aires (over 100 milongas per week). It is very much ALIVE!!
Ron
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:33:31 +0200
From: "Krasimir Stoyanov" <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
To: "Krasimir Stoyanov" <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
The wrong thing is that they try to improve something they do not yet
understand. Not my words, Miguel Angel Zotto's. This is fundamental flow . .
.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
>> What exactly is the problem with the people of Europe, Asia, North
>> America, or even those who frequent "Practica X" in BsA, taking tango
>> in their own directions? The dance is a living thing expressed through
>> the bodies and hearts of those dancing it, it is not a dead "thing"
>> sitting in a jar of formaldehyde to be preserved.
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:30:00 +1000
From: "Anton Stanley" <antonst@alidas.com.au>
Subject: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
<00052DAF04B2EA4B925351AA0DE08CB70EF3F5@stancosbs1.stanco.local>
Brick wrote:
"The dance is a living thing expressed through the bodies and hearts of
those dancing it, it is not a dead "thing" sitting in a jar of
formaldehyde to be preserved. Of course, this is not a rejection of the
great music, culture and dance of the golden era of tango, but a
questioning of those who seem to want to limit tango to only "what was."
To a relatively new inductee into Tango, one of the most frustrating
aspects is a lack of definition or even authoritative guide lines. A hip
pocket survey amongst fairly long standing practitioners and teachers,
gained responses that: "Tango is a feeling"; "the music", "the steps";
"steps and music"; and many other indefinable definitions. The question
posed was how do I know when I'm dancing Tango and more importantly,
when do I know that I have passed over the line from dancing Tango to
not dancing Tango? How on earth can something be preserved if there's no
understandable description.
I guess I view the many dance genre as akin to Breeds. Each should be
preserved, if not for it's beauty/artistic or cultural value, then just
by reason of diversity. So whilst I am can readily accept Brick's
concept of dance evolution, I am totally opposed to that concept in
terms of Dance Genre. Apply the open evolutionary principle to say dog
breeding and down the road we would see but one breed. No more Bulldogs,
Dobermanns or Chihuahuas .... Gone! (If you believe that restricting
oneself to such a defined boundary as a Breed Standard, curtails
creativity, experimentation and development...ask a breeder.)
So, increasingly when I go to a Milonga, I sit out half of it (if I
happen to have the dexterity to put up with the music) and dance and
enjoy the other half when the mood and the music touches my soul. As you
can probably discern, I don't regard dancing Tango as a sport or
exhibition; but as a transcendental moment with another human being to
which I am attracted. If Tango could be measured, I would find the gap
between the beginning of the measure and the end, to be so vast that the
only shared ingredient would be the name. I think it's somewhere in this
reasoning of mine that I get quite disturbed when this thing that I love
and cherish more than almost all else, is subjected to change that I
can't accept. And it seems I might never accept. I say to you Brick,
don't steal the love of my life. Get your own and call it Lucille,
Jennifer, anything but Tango! Just my humble opinion.
Anton
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 15:54:26 -0700
From: <doug@swingfusion.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
<Anton Stanley> ... As you can probably discern, I don't regard dancing
Tango as a sport or
exhibition; but as a transcendental moment with another human being to which
I am attracted...
</Anton Stanley>
?
I do not want to enter into the ?what is Tango? discussion as it is quite
clear that there are a lot of firmly fixed opinions on the matter and that
everybody has one.
?
But
I do want to respond to your apparent notion that a transcendental moment
and a shared athletic activity are incompatible.? I find that the level of
sharing, and the physical and emotional connection, are greater for me (and
for my regular partner as well) when we are working together in an entirely
interdependent way that, in addition to all of the aspects of connection in
that exist in, say, close embrace tango, adds a physical dimension of
trust.? A simple example is a Volcada (sorry if this isn?t tango to you, but
oh well).? If I lead a deep Volcada, my partner has the expectation that I
will lead it and physically support her in a way that is safe and
comfortable.? There is even a small element of danger to her if I fail.?
Same goes for a colgada.? Simultaneous ganchos.? Etc., etc.? This is not
about exhibitionism or theatrics, but rather about an extra dimension that
adds, not detracts, from the transcendental sharing that you are talking
about.? And all of these can be done musically and appropriately, with
respect for the other dancers on the floor (yes, and in a sufficiently
crowded environment one might do none of these, or perhaps do them so small
that they do not go outside of your own frame).
?
I recognize that some may not understand the power and attraction that this
kind of physical connection holds.? But I ask that you not simply put it
down, or worse, attack those of us that do enjoy this enhanced closeness of
personal relationship between partners.? I don?t put down close embrace; in
fact I take close embrace privates at least twice per month and love it ? so
please, play nice!
?
If this is totally foreign to you, I suggest that you rent and watch The
Gymnast ( www.thegymnastfilm.com ).??Kind of an extreme example compared to
merely dancing tango (or whatever you might choose to call the tango derived
dance that adds these elements), but you can?t say that there isn?t an
incredible bond that develops between the main characters based on a shared
athletic activity.
?
Doug
?
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 12:44:50 +1000
From: "Anton Stanley" <antonst@alidas.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Keep it simple
<00052DAF04B2EA4B925351AA0DE08CB70EF3F8@stancosbs1.stanco.local>
Doug wrote:
"But I ask that you not simply put it down, or worse, attack those of us
that do enjoy this enhanced closeness of personal relationship between
partners."
If I came across as putting down you or others for the dance style you
enjoy, please accept it was do to my lack of linguistic ability. I
thoroughly agree that everyone should be entitled to enjoy any dance
form they desire without vilification. It was only Brick's comment that
stirred me to post, about those like myself who prefer to associate
"Tango" (the music, dance and culture) with a style more closely
associated with the one that has held popular support of the greater
Tango community for the past eighty years or so. To me, it seemed
Brick's slightly barbed comment about those of us who question or resist
his idea of Tango evolution, are trying to treat Tango as something to
be preserved in a jar of formaldehyde. I took it to imply that my deeply
held views were out of date and reactionary.
The point I was really trying to impart however, was that who has the
right to say what is and what is not Tango evolution. It seems to me
there is no universal Tango Standard by which anyone's claim to have
evolved Tango to a new level (or new anything) can be assessed, except
by popular appeal. The problem with popular appeal is that it can be
self fulfilling. Change it and it will attract those that like the
change. Popular appeal doesn't mean evolution. Simplistically, I could
synthesise a piece of music, make up some steps to suit and call it
Tango. Who can categorically say this is not neo free form (or whatever)
evolution of Tango if I so choose to claim. A really catchy beat, some
new figures to suit and a good PR man, and hey I could suddenly be the
father of the new evolved Tango. Of course I would respect your right to
object, although I would be confused on what the grounds of your
objection could be.
It's probably the moment to inform you that I also take privates weekly,
both open and closed embrace. And am looking forward to the day when I
can express my dance artform in a combination of open/closed figures.
But in my opinion nothing comes close to the energy and emotion that
comes off the floor in a BA milonga, albeit with seemingly simple steps
and traditional music. I don't even have to be dancing to feel it. Can't
say the same for most milongas here, with the exception of a few
individual people, it's pretty uninspiring compared to BA. Why? It's the
music and the way they dance to it in BA. I will never apologise for
trying to preserve it and trying to persuade others to a like mind.
Of course the other prickly pear is that I could suggest that, in the
interests of clarity and communication, the term Tango be reserved for
the traditional Tango and some other non-confusing name be given to the
"evolved" Tango. (Pulling the chain this hard is actually frightening
me):)
PS: Actually, I find this fragmentation of Tango already occurring at
milongas here, with DJ announcements that after so many tandas of
traditional, music to suit evolved (Neo) tango affectionados will follow
for X number of tandas.
Respectfully
Anton
