4591 New indoor smoking law in Buenos Aires
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 17:11:34 +0100
From: "Dani Iannarelli" <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New indoor smoking law in Buenos Aires
To: <jantango@feedback.net.ar>, <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
Hola Janis / everyone,
The same legislation was applied here in Scotland in March of this year,
and a year previously in Eire (the Republic of Ireland). Prior to this,
there was huge consternation about the possible implications and
consequences of such a law, such as that people will stop going to
pubs/clubs/restaurants etc and simply drink and smoke at home (that's
fine by me!) with, consequently, the pubs etc losing custom.
A survey was recently conducted however, by - guess who - yes, the
licensed trade association or whatever it's called. The results showed
that the majority (about 65%, I think) of these establishments suffered
loss of trade as a result of the new legislation. However, they did not
draw attention to the fact that the survey sample drew back only 20%
(!!!) in completed returns! So-o-o-o-o... the actual figure of 65% was
only of 20% of establishments!
Consider this...
i. Those who are vehemently against any such legislation tend,
generally, to be the most outspoken and irate anyway;
ii. Those who suffer no problems in loss of custom/profit will not even
bother to fill in such a form as they'll see it as unnecessary;
iii. Those who DO (or 'say' they do) suffer problems in loss of
custom/profit would most definitely (as it's in their vested interest)
complete such a survey. Therefore, if 80% did not bother to complete the
survey, it surely must indicate that there is virtually no problem
appreciated within that 80%, and any unhappy establishments would be
very much at a minimum.
iv. Many of the 65% would probably have lied anyway in order to 'cook'
the figures for their own gain!
Realistically, taking these points into consideration, the natural
conclusion would be that the MAJORITY (combining the 35% of the 20%,
with the majority - perhaps 90+% of the 80%) suffer no problems in loss
of revenue whatsoever.
The idea that business will be affected is a red-herring put out by
those with no concept about public healthcare, those with perhaps a
vested interest in some other aspect/angle, those establishment owners
who are just worried through ignorance, those with an anarchic streak
against any legislative imposition.
I think it's great as I'm a lifelong non-smoker who has to put up with
the lack of consideration of the filthy hordes who do smoke. I visit
BsAs for tango on an annual basis and have been doing so for the past 9
years. For a non-smoker, one of the most terrible things about going to
milongas (even internet cafes!) is that a great many people smoke in
BsAs and don't give a damn about non-smokers. Two of the worst venues
I've encountered were Sutherland Club and Centro Leonesa (Nino Bien).
Although in the latter there are fans distributed around the venue, all
they do is circulate the smoke. In both places, as in others too, the
tables are pretty much tightly knit together (often in corners/areas in
which air circulation is very restricted) and so smokers in one table
certainly affect the non-smokers in an adjacent table.
Do the smokers care? Does the establishment care? No. I'm sure, though,
smokers would have something to say about people farting in their
company. It's just as offensive, although less dangerous (in some cases,
anyway). Perhaps now, smokers and establishments will be forced to care.
Again, I think it's GREAT! I'm certainly looking forward to my next trip
to BsAs in March 2007. Think of those lovely smoke-free milongas! Great
stuff!
Regards
Dani ~
'El Zorro de Tango' :-):-):-)
Email:
dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
Website (under construction): www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
<https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu/>
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Online photogalleries:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
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Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 16:17:14 -0400
From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New indoor smoking law in Buenos Aires
To: jantango@feedback.net.ar, TANGO-L@MIT.EDU
The only reason that I (and others) don't go to BsAs more often is the
horrible air quality of the city. The smoking is too pervasive and out of
control. As Dany said, the smokers don't give a damn about the people they
injure with their filthy habit. The milongas, restaurants and other public
places are often polluted with tobacco smoke. When one ads to that the heavy
air pollution from the motor vehicles, the quality of life there is plain
terrible. I have never been able to visit BsAs without getting sick with
respiratory illnesses. Furthermore, I've found that I'm far from alone in
this. Many friends who go to BsAs complain that they also get sick every
time they go.
Buenos Aires is a great city. I love the character, the architecture, the
people, etc. It's not a perfect place, but that's not important. The only
negative part of it that matters to me is the poor air quality and it's
effects on my health. Unfortunately, the health hazards from the smoking/air
pollution are so grave that in my estimation they override everything else.
I hope with all my heart that these types of legislation take hold in BsAs
(and all other parts of the world). I would be so happy to be able to go to
Bs As and enjoy that beautiful city!!
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
>From: "Janis Kenyon" <jantango@feedback.net.ar>
>To: "Tango-L" <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
>Subject: [Tango-L] New indoor smoking law in Buenos Aires
>Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 01:29:33 -0300
>
>We returned to our tables after a tanda. The woman at the table next to me
>commented on how much cigarrette smoke bothers her. I looked around and
>didn't see anyone smoking within twelve feet of us, so I asked her how
>she's
>able to go dancing since so many smoke in the milongas. We were in Lo de
>Celia where there were only twenty people attending Emilio's milonga on a
>cold afternoon. She told me that things will be changing on October 1st.
>The Congress debated the issue for a long time, but it finally passed both
>houses. A law will be in effect as of October 1 prohibiting smoking in
>public places. That is going to affect milongas.
>
>During a tanda, I mentioned the new law to my partner. He replied, no one
>will come to the milongas. The woman doesn't feel the new law will matter
>to most people. Her comment was, the desire to go to the milonga is
>stronger than the desire to smoke.
>
>Only time will tell. If the law keeps people away, the atmosphere of the
>milongas will change in more ways than one. The foreigners will be happy
>to
>dance in a smoke-free environment. They may end up dancing only with other
>foreigners. Dancers who need to smoke will have to go outside, while
>others
>will wait for them to return for the next tanda.
>
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 23:17:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New indoor smoking law in Buenos Aires
To: WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com>, jantango@feedback.net.ar,
TANGO-L@MIT.EDU
Hi Manuel,
Yes, you've hit the nail on the head!
On more than one occasion I've returned from BsAs with a respiratory infection. On one particular occasion a few years ago, I returned with some terrible infection that lasted about 8 months before it eventually cleared. Nothing seemed to help. Although I could talk - reasonably alright - there was an awful accumulation of mucus that affected my singing. My coach recommended an herbal medicine (absolutely foul stuff) which gradually and slowly helped, but it took eight months(!) to finally go.
There's a combination of causative factors:
i. The long-haul flight;
ii. The stress of travelling;
iii. The changes of climate/atmosphere/temperature;
iv. Any underlying dormant infection;
v. A weakened immune system;
vi. Humidity (depending on season);
vii. The amount of traffic (including big, lumbering, smelly buses) all going down narrow sides streets between large buildings. The pollution simply accumulates to such a terrible (and long-term dangerous) level as there's just no ventilation due to the size of the buildings on either side.
Trouble is, Manuel, I can't stay away from the place... I keep going back for more!
I just love going to BsAs!
Dani
----- Original Message ----
Sent: Sunday, 3 September, 2006 9:17:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New indoor smoking law in Buenos Aires
The only reason that I (and others) don't go to BsAs more often is the
horrible air quality of the city. The smoking is too pervasive and out of
control. As Dany said, the smokers don't give a damn about the people they
injure with their filthy habit. The milongas, restaurants and other public
places are often polluted with tobacco smoke. When one ads to that the heavy
air pollution from the motor vehicles, the quality of life there is plain
terrible. I have never been able to visit BsAs without getting sick with
respiratory illnesses. Furthermore, I've found that I'm far from alone in
this. Many friends who go to BsAs complain that they also get sick every
time they go.
Buenos Aires is a great city. I love the character, the architecture, the
people, etc. It's not a perfect place, but that's not important. The only
negative part of it that matters to me is the poor air quality and it's
effects on my health. Unfortunately, the health hazards from the smoking/air
pollution are so grave that in my estimation they override everything else.
I hope with all my heart that these types of legislation take hold in BsAs
(and all other parts of the world). I would be so happy to be able to go to
Bs As and enjoy that beautiful city!!
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
>From: "Janis Kenyon" <jantango@feedback.net.ar>
>To: "Tango-L" <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
>Subject: [Tango-L] New indoor smoking law in Buenos Aires
>Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 01:29:33 -0300
>
>We returned to our tables after a tanda. The woman at the table next to me
>commented on how much cigarrette smoke bothers her. I looked around and
>didn't see anyone smoking within twelve feet of us, so I asked her how
>she's
>able to go dancing since so many smoke in the milongas. We were in Lo de
>Celia where there were only twenty people attending Emilio's milonga on a
>cold afternoon. She told me that things will be changing on October 1st.
>The Congress debated the issue for a long time, but it finally passed both
>houses. A law will be in effect as of October 1 prohibiting smoking in
>public places. That is going to affect milongas.
>
>During a tanda, I mentioned the new law to my partner. He replied, no one
>will come to the milongas. The woman doesn't feel the new law will matter
>to most people. Her comment was, the desire to go to the milonga is
>stronger than the desire to smoke.
>
>Only time will tell. If the law keeps people away, the atmosphere of the
>milongas will change in more ways than one. The foreigners will be happy
>to
>dance in a smoke-free environment. They may end up dancing only with other
>foreigners. Dancers who need to smoke will have to go outside, while
>others
>will wait for them to return for the next tanda.
>
