4767 Piazzolla "Alternative" Music?
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 18:40:22 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Piazzolla "Alternative" Music?
Hey Miles,
You exposed a lot of fear and loathing with your rather
innocent question. The cerebral cortexes have left the
list. Brain stems are in charge now.
To give you at least one useful response to your question,
Huck is dead on right about Piazzolla. It is absulutely
alternative music. If you try to dance tango to it, IMHO,
you will look even more foolish than the people who try to
dance nuevo to it. That's not to say that it can't be
danced to, just to say that those very few who can dance
that well are not to be found on this list. (Unless they
are lurking.)
Sean
--- Huck Kennedy <huck@eninet.eas.asu.edu> wrote:
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 19:32:48 -0800
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Piazzolla "Alternative" Music?
Sean:
"The cerebral cortexes have left the list. Brain stems are in charge now."
Like in dancing, isn't it?
Igor
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 13:29:52 +0900
From: "astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Piazzolla "Alternative" Music?
To: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>, "Tango-L"
> Huck is dead on right about Piazzolla. It is absulutely
> alternative music. If you try to dance tango to it, IMHO,
> you will look even more foolish than the people who try to
> dance nuevo to it. That's not to say that it can't be
> danced to, just to say that those very few who can dance
> that well are not to be found on this list. (Unless they
> are lurking.)
>
> Sean
>
May I guess that includes you and Trini?
Piazzolla is not "alternative" as it not something other than tango and
alien to the genre, it was born from tango as a further step in the
development of musical history. You will have to force me if you want to
make me dance tango to salsa, pop and such, but when, once in a blue moon,
very late at night, one of the more danceable pieces by Piazzolla comes on
and I happen to be with right partner, it feels like a dark starry sky has
filled the air, there is nothing like it.
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 16:44:07 +0100
From: "Mauro Casadei" <m_casadei67@tin.it>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Piazzolla "Alternative" Music?
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Astrid is absolutely right.
I wonder why is there so much confusion in the term "alternative".
Piazzolla is indeed different from D'Arienzo, Laurenz, Fresedo and Calo',
just to name a few.
However, the rhythmic in most Piazzolla pieces is strictly connected to the
traditional Tango or (slow) Milonga beats.
And the melodies still bear a reminiscence of the innovation work of
Pugliese.
Adios Nonino, Milonga del angel, Oblivion and others - to name a few - are
clearly tango/milonga pieces, certainly injected with new idea and
innovations, but are still part of clear evolution line in the Argentine
Tango tradition (despite all the debates between Piazzolla and the
old-fashioned argentinian audience).
The same cannot be said of most pieces by Narcotango, Tanghetto, Bajofondo
and other "Neotango" groups.
The rhythm, the beat, becomes completely different, and just the fact of
having a bandoneon paying in the background while someone talks in Spanish
does not make it a Tango.
These pieces migh be called "alternative " music, that one van like or
dislike, but IMHO they cannot be put into the same ill-defined container
with Piazzolla.
===================================================================
astrid astrid at ruby.plala.or.jp
Sat Feb 24 23:29:52 EST 2007
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> Huck is dead on right about Piazzolla. It is absulutely
> alternative music. If you try to dance tango to it, IMHO,
> you will look even more foolish than the people who try to
> dance nuevo to it. That's not to say that it can't be
> danced to, just to say that those very few who can dance
> that well are not to be found on this list. (Unless they
> are lurking.)
>
> Sean
>
May I guess that includes you and Trini?
Piazzolla is not "alternative" as it not something other than tango and
alien to the genre, it was born from tango as a further step in the
development of musical history. You will have to force me if you want to
make me dance tango to salsa, pop and such, but when, once in a blue moon,
very late at night, one of the more danceable pieces by Piazzolla comes on
and I happen to be with right partner, it feels like a dark starry sky has
filled the air, there is nothing like it.
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 10:13:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Piazzolla "Alternative" Music?
Mauro, I don't think that there is really "so much
confusion in the term 'alternative'". It is simply any
music that is not traditionally played in the milongas.
That is, any music that is an alternative to the classic
golden age music. It includes many many (most?) tangos,
(including Piazzolla, Hugo Diaz, late Pugliese, etc.) other
genres, electrocuted tango, noise, and in the immemorable
words of Todd Snider, "silence, the original alternative to
music". (Ummm, that last one is a joke. Please DJs, no
silence, or even Joe's Blues.)
To put it even more simply: If you go to an alternative
milonga, you will almost certainly hear Piazzolla. If you
go to a traditional milonga, you will certainly not hear
Piazzolla.
Only that half of the list who use alternative as a
perjorative term might object to including Piazzolla and
Pugliese in this vast but hardly "ill-defined container".
Astrid, I can think of less than a dozen dancers who can
express the complexing and subtlety of Piazzolla's music. I
don't include myself in any top 10 lists. But I do set very
high standards for myself. I would rather sit out a dance,
than to dance distracted by all the cool musical events
that I just missed.
I can understand how people who find traditional tango
music boring might love to dance to Piazzolla, because they
haven't developed an ear for tango, and so don't know what
they are missing. But for someone who loves tango music,
dancing to Piazzolla is a much different experience.
Sean
==========================================================
--- Mauro Casadei <m_casadei67@tin.it> wrote:
I wonder why is there so much confusion in the term
"alternative".
These pieces migh be called "alternative " music, that one
van like or dislike, but IMHO they cannot be put into the
same ill-defined container with Piazzolla.
==========================================================
>
> astrid astrid at ruby.plala.or.jp
> Sat Feb 24 23:29:52 EST 2007
> May I guess that includes you and Trini?
> Piazzolla is not "alternative" as it not something other
> than tango and
> alien to the genre, it was born from tango as a further
> step in the
> development of musical history. You will have to force me
> if you want to
> make me dance tango to salsa, pop and such, but when,
> once in a blue moon,
> very late at night, one of the more danceable pieces by
> Piazzolla comes on
> and I happen to be with right partner, it feels like a
> dark starry sky has
> filled the air, there is nothing like it.
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:46:59 -0500
From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Piazzolla "Alternative" Music?
>From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
>I can understand how people who find traditional tango
>music boring might love to dance to Piazzolla, because they
>haven't developed an ear for tango, and so don't know what
>they are missing. But for someone who loves tango music,
>dancing to Piazzolla is a much different experience.
>
>Sean
Hi Sean, I mean this in the kindest way, but I think that it's not the"ear"
for tango that they've not developed, but rather the feet and soul and the
skill to dance authentic tango to the music.
Manuel
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Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 11:51:02 +0100
From: Alexis Cousein <al@sgi.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Piazzolla "Alternative" Music?
To: TANGO-L@MIT.EDU
Trini y Sean (PATangoS) wrote:
> To give you at least one useful response to your question,
> Huck is dead on right about Piazzolla. It is absulutely
> alternative music. If you try to dance tango to it, IMHO,
> you will look even more foolish than the people who try to
> dance nuevo to it. That's not to say that it can't be
> danced to, just to say that those very few who can dance
> that well are not to be found on this list. (Unless they
> are lurking.)
You presume much too much - both about the list members
(the majority of which you've never seen dance) and about
Piazzolla (who was very different in the fifties than it the
later years. Or is any Troilo number with Piazzolla playing
in it tainted by association?).
--
Alexis Cousein al@sgi.com
Senior Systems Engineer/Solutions Architect SGI/Silicon Graphics
--
<If I have seen further, it is by standing on reference manuals>
Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2007 17:20:32 -0700 (MST)
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@eninet.eas.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Piazzolla "Alternative" Music?
To: tango-l@Mit.edu
Astrid writes:
> Sean writes:
> > Huck is dead on right about Piazzolla. It is absulutely
> > alternative music. If you try to dance tango to it, IMHO,
> > you will look even more foolish than the people who try to
> > dance nuevo to it. That's not to say that it can't be
> > danced to, just to say that those very few who can dance
> > that well are not to be found on this list. (Unless they
> > are lurking.)
>
> May I guess that includes you and Trini?
> Piazzolla is not "alternative" as it not something other than tango and
> alien to the genre, it was born from tango as a further step in the
> development of musical history.
Actually, what Huck said was to disagree with
"m i l e s" that Piazzolla was "a staple diet of
golden age tango music."
I said, "Huh? No it's not," and it isn't. But
just because it isn't golden age or played as much as
golden age doesn't mean that it isn't tango. Most of
it I really wouldn't personally care to dance to, though.
So is Piazzolla "alternative?" That's a loaded
question. Let me put it this way: Much as I adore
sitting down and listening to Piazzolla, and much as
I consider it to be brilliant, if anyone played more
than a couple Piazzolla songs in an evening (a tanda
at most), I wouldn't be back again to that milonga.
Huck
PS Btw, I once saw a brilliant pas de deux by the
principal dancers of Bolshoi Ballet to at least
a solid 20-30 minutes of varied Piazzolla. I thought
ballet worked a whole lot better than your typical tango
dancers' attempt to dance to it.
