4772  Song Length in Polyphonic "Alternative" Music as

Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:01:49 -0300
From: "Brian Dunn" <brian@danceoftheheart.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Song Length in Polyphonic "Alternative" Music as
Indicator of Artistic Motivation
To: "TC Discuss List" <TangoColorado@yahoogroups.com>, "TANGO-L"

Hi Nina/Grisha, and thanks for replying,

So this gets interesting.

"a simple accompaniment to the melody to which you refer
to, and only a few bars of it, do not constitute
polyphony."

Well, everybody can listen to the tracks for themselves - thanks to Jennifer
Kenyon for supplying the link:

https://www.carloslibedinsky.com/english/home.html

where selections of the pieces can be heard.

I'll be happy to entertain alternative definitions of polyphony to replace
the one I offered, but I invite others to assume that, in the absence of
such alternatives, my proposed definition can stand for now.

In response to Gregory's response via Nina, three questions arise in my
mind:


1) If Libedinsky's "Otra Luna" is insufficiently polyphonic to pass muster
in some way, then how much added polyphony would make it "real" polyphony?
Or is this just a question of whose/which style of polyphonic composition
you prefer?

2) How many popular danceable Golden Age tangos would pass this unspecified
polyphony test? Right now I'm listening to D'Arienzo's "La Cumparsita" and
"El Choclo", which perhaps we can agree are somewhat iconic classic
danceable tangos. There are many passages in both of these pieces where
polyphony and polyrhythmy are both absent in multiple phrases, where the
orchestra is sounding in unison, for example. How much of classic tango
dance music gets thrown out by the same standard you impose on Libedinsky?

3) In what seems to me like a somewhat cheap shot, you each characterize
Libedinsky's state of mind and artistic intent in fairly negative terms:
Grisha states,
"...of course, there is no soul in this kind of music, which is made only
for commercial purpose",

and Nina follows with
"the length of these pieces betrays their commercial intent because
the length of the musical piece often determines the payment to the
musicians, roylaties, etc."

The above comment sounded such a jarringly discordant note in Grisha's
otherwise fascinating musical discourse, I had to wonder if some
"non-native-language misunderstanding" issue was at work, and I was a little
distressed to see Nina reiterate and expand this line of thought.

But putting my sensibilities aside, perhaps there is some objective lesson
to learn here, and again I appeal to those with greater knowledge than I for
insight on a topic (namely, Libedinsky's inner artistic strivings,
constraints and motivations) on which I admit I am sadly unenlightened!

Data: Libedinsky's songs on Narcotango vary in length from 3:12 to 6:49,
with all but 3 being under 4 minutes.

Data: Of the 1,724 songs in my MP3 Player's "tango - tango" genre (to
distinguish from "tango - vals", "tango - milonga", etc.), 1,718 are longer
than two minutes, and 1,671 are shorter than four minutes.

So my question is: how many classic danceable tangos do we throw out along
with Libedinsky because "of course, there is no soul..." because "the
length of these pieces betrays their commercial intent because the length of
the musical piece often determines the payment to the musicians, roylaties,
etc."

While we're busy deciding who has soul, we should probably start throwing
out some Mozart, too - if memory serves, the poor guy was desperately driven
by commercial concerns at times. But can't we just choose to see the
three-minute radio song size (or whatever red flag you are using here) as
just one more artistic constraint, like the number of syllables in a haiku,
or the structure of a song cycle or symphony?

Or maybe it's enough to say that you don't like Libedinsky the same way some
Di Sarli fans didn't like D'Arienzo, or Canaro fans disdained the De
Caro/Pugliese followers?

Still hoping for a workable definition (perhaps by counterexample) of
polyphony ;) ,

All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, CO 80302
www.danceoftheheart.com
"Building a Better World, One Tango At a Time"