5842  A. Tango And Smooth Ballroom: Help Or Hinderance

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:48:36 -0500
From: rhink2@netscape.net
Subject: [Tango-L] A. Tango And Smooth Ballroom: Help Or Hinderance
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Does
Argentine tango help one dance better ballroom? Does ballroom dancing
help one dance better A. tango? In other words, is there a
cross-training benefit or does one genre interfere with learning the
other?





Let me be more specific. Smooth (or traveling) ballroom dances, such as
waltz, foxtrot, quickstep, and ballroom tango, share things in common
with A. tango, but there are profound differences as well. Is there a
net gain or a net loss in knowing one style of dance when trying to
learn the other.





I have some ideas about this question, but I'm interested in hearing your opinions before I express mine.





Bob





P.S. I googled the list for this topic, but surprisingly I came up blank.

Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:09:21 -0500
From: Sergey Kazachenko <syarzhuk@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] A. Tango And Smooth Ballroom: Help Or
Hinderance
To: rhink2@netscape.net
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<ebb7980c0911131009u528e1381pc78d7e51bbf223a0@mail.gmail.com>

Any dancing experience helps learning AT, as dancers have more balance
than ordinary people.
However, I did notice that some women experienced in ballroom tend to
lean back, which makes it harder to lead them.

Sergey
May you be forever touched by His Noodly Appendage... (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster )

Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:02:34 -0700
From: Tango Mail <tango@springssauna.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] A. Tango And Smooth Ballroom: Help Or
Hinderance
To: rhink2@netscape.net, tango-l@mit.edu

*Bob wrote:
*"Does Argentine tango help one dance better ballroom? Does ballroom
dancing help one
*dance better A. tango? In other words, is there a cross-training
benefit or does one
*genre interfere with learning the other?"

I firmly believe that if you start your dancing career under
professional direction with the
Ballroom dances, you will be a better Tango dancer quicker. I also
think that if you,
as a Tango-only-taught-dancer went and started dancing Ballroom, you
would have a
longer learning curve than vice-versa. I personally began my dancing in
the
Ballroom circles so I speak from personal experience - others experience
may differ.

In Ballroom the teachers emphasize on posture and frame for a long
time. A tango teacher
than made his student pay as much just to learn how to stand right would
probably lose that
student, even though in my opinion it is something that needs to be done
and learned.
Tango is famous for drooping heads and concaved shoulders; we've all
seen that 6'-8"
guy reduced to 6'-2" because he can't keep his head up. Same with
women: Tall women
seem ashamed of their tallness and shrink and project down. Short women
don't arch their
backs so they're projecting straight versus up, as they ought to. To
learn how to stand up
straight and how to properly project and to extend seem to take a lot
longer to achieve
if attempted via tango-only. I would say years versus months. This of
course depends on
the abilities and skills of the individual dancer and the frequency of
their dancing, but on the
whole I do believe the way to start is via Ballroom: it is "big" dancing.
Like Daniel Trenner said: It is easier to make the steps small once
you've learned them big
than it is to make the steps big if you learned them small. Tango in my
experience starts
off very small - at least in the States.

Positives from Ballroom for leader: Straight back and neck, strong
square frame, ability
to hear the beat in the music. Appreciation for manners and etiquette
(including my personal
pet peeve: Open Jackets. If you're wearing the jacket to dance you keep
it closed. If you're
hot you take the Jacket off -as long as you haven't soaked your shirt,
then you keep it on
and suffer to protect the follower).

Negatives from Ballroom for leader: Need to soften the frame to adjust
to more crowded
dancing conditions and to different holds that different follows have.
Need to learn Cabeceo
and to stop asking women to dance by standing in front of them, bowing
your head, and
extending your hand, lol.

Positives from Ballroom for follower: Good tall posture and projection,
ability to take long
back steps without sacrificing ones posture. Ability to follow the lead
- only weird things to
learn are the cross-step and "sloppy dancing". In close-embrace if you
do traveling
back-ochos the woman can't be pivoting from their mid-section, it's
sub-hip-motion.

Negatives from Ballroom for follower: Need to re-learn embrace;
connection will be higher
than in ballroom, but all one would have to do is pivot from their
mid-section: Upper-body
comes closer to the leader while the pelvis separates. Re-learn where
and how to place their
left arm and hand. Also important to keep the head either straight or
directed toward the man's
instead of away.

Again, these are my personal experiences and observations and unless you
have similar
Ballroom experience then you've no leg to stand on if you're wanting to
troll.

Ta.

Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:18:28 -0500
From: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] A. Tango And Smooth Ballroom: Help Or
Hinderance
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>, <rhink2@netscape.net>

Bob:
Dancing Argentine Tango greatly improved my ballroom. Because of close
embrace, there's no room for error. If I can't lead the woman to step first,
there's going to be a collision. In ballroom, the man is off center from the
woman. He can move his left foot forward without fear of stepping on the
woman's foot. However, it's a terrible lead for the man to move before the
woman.

Ballroom has prescribed steps and rhythms. Argentine doesn't have prescribed
steps and rhythms and forces the man to pay more attention to the woman,
e.g. knowing which foot she is standing. In ballroom, couples are on
parallel feet virtually all the time so there's less need for the man to
know which foot the woman is standing.


Michael
I danced Argentine Tango --with the Argentines

----- Original Message -----

From: <rhink2@netscape.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] A. Tango And Smooth Ballroom: Help Or Hinderance

> Does
> Argentine tango help one dance better ballroom? Does ballroom dancing
> help one dance better A. tango? In other words, is there a cross-training
> benefit or does one genre interfere with learning the > other?
>
> Let me be more specific. Smooth (or traveling) ballroom dances, such as
> waltz, foxtrot, quickstep, and ballroom tango, share things in common
> with A. tango, but there are profound differences as well. Is there a net
> gain or a net loss in knowing one style of dance when trying to learn the
> other.
>
> Bob