5828  "Truth" in tango advertising

Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:46:04 +0000
From: c.roques@mchsi.com
Subject: [Tango-L] "Truth" in tango advertising
To: TANGO-L@mit.edu
<102720092246.224.4AE7782C000D4E85000000E0223245003003010CD2079C080C03BF9C0A9A9E019DD20C@mchsi.com>


Vince wrote:

<<<<Just saying it is "Tango milonguero" or "classical tango music" will not on its own create the sort of atmosphere you want. However, "alternative milongas" says very clearly to everyone what is allowed I think.>>>

Why not? This sjust eems to reflect your personal prejudices and preferences. Saying that it is "classic tango," or "milonguero tango" is no less specific than calling it "alternative." It is clear what they all mean. Traditional dancers don't attend the alternative milongas because they know what to expect. Nuevo dancers should do the same at traditional milongas and respect that their dancing is not appropriate and not expect to hear the same kind of music.

<<< A majority of tangoists are not Argentine, do not tango in Argentina on a regular basis and some never go. They are
influenced on what happens around their local city. 90% of the tango workshops I have gone to in Australia have taught nuevo elements. >>>

This has nothing to do with nuevo or traditional styles or the country in which they are danced. The term originated long before nuevo came along to distinguish the original tango danced in Argentina from American ballroom tango. Milonguero, tango de salon, milonguero, nuevo, etc. are all Argentine tango. Although eventually nuevo and even traditional tango could change in character from what is danced in Argentina if they continue to develop in isolation, just as Finnish tango did.

Cheers,
Charles

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:10:00 +1100
From: "Vince Bagusauskas" <vytis@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] "Truth" in tango advertising
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>

Charles said:

>Saying that it is "classic tango,"

You changed it from "classical tango music" to "classical tango". Hope that
was because you realize the music alone wont get the sort of atmosphere you
want.

>"milonguero tango" is no less specific

It will upset the tango salon dancers :-) BTW, a 1990's coined term

>than calling it "alternative." It is clear what they all mean.

To you and me maybe, but to the vast majority of dancers who do not read
Tango-L, no it means nothing. A bit of explanation of what is expected
without all the mythical reverence would go a long way in educating the
masses.

>and not expect to hear the same kind of music.

Dancers who like to do neuvo moves don't really care what music they dance
to.

>This has nothing to do with nuevo or traditional styles or the country in
>which they are danced.

I have to respectfully disagree. If the majority of dancers in a city are
taught nuevo elements, they may have an expectation that it is OK to dance
such elements at any milonga. What teacher will tell their students, sure
you can learn all these cool moves, but you wont be welcome at any regular
milonga that you care to attend in this city. I bet none. Not the city I
initially learnt tango in.


Regards

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 06:21:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Truth" in tango advertising
To: tango-l@mit.edu

----- Original Message ----

> From: Vince Bagusauskas <vytis@hotmail.com>
>
> Charles (correctly, IMHO) said:

> >than calling it "alternative." It is clear what they all mean.> >

Vince replied:

> To you and me maybe, but to the vast majority of dancers who
>do not read Tango-L, no it means nothing.? >>

Vince, when every 'traditionalist' reads your posts,?I'm sure they're
thanking their lucky stars that they don't live in a city which is so
ignorant of what 'Tango' really is. I know I am.

Jack

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 01:06:05 +1100
From: "Vince Bagusauskas" <vytis@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Truth" in tango advertising
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>

Well Jack,

I don't live in that city anymore.

What city do you dance in? I would like to google/youtube it to see what
styles of tango are danced at the milongas you attend and then report back.

But we digress: why not in advertise what you will accept at your milonga
in clear and precise terms? Can we agree on that?

Cheers

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:54:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Truth" in tango advertising
To: tango-l@mit.edu

----- Original Message ----

> From: Vince Bagusauskas <vytis@hotmail.com>
>
> What city do you dance in?? I would like to google/youtube it to see what
> styles of tango are danced at the milongas you attend and then report back.
>?

?Vince,

I live in an Asian city so I'm not far from you. Couldn't find an actual milonga
on YouTube but this is a group of local teachers so it'll give you some idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?vŠ1fr8UN0NQ

It's a demonstration so maybe a little more 'showy' than how regular people
dance in the milongas. It's not milonguero?but I'd still call it mostly 'traditional'.

Jack

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:42:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: RonTango <rontango@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Truth" in tango advertising
To: tango-l@mit.edu

----- Original Message ----

> From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>

> > From: Vince Bagusauskas
> >
> > What city do you dance in? I would like to google/youtube it to see what
> > styles of tango are danced at the milongas you attend and then report back.
> >

>
> I live in an Asian city so I'm not far from you. Couldn't find an actual milonga
>
> on YouTube but this is a group of local teachers so it'll give you some idea.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?vŠ1fr8UN0NQ
>
> It's a demonstration so maybe a little more 'showy' than how regular people
> dance in the milongas. It's not milonguero but I'd still call it mostly
> 'traditional'.
>

Yes, it's a little bit showy (the boleos were a little too large), but it was a demo. If this was the extent of which we had to deal with in US milongas, I don't think we'd be fighting so much for our space and talking about milonga separation or milonga rules. Everyone in the video was respecting the line of dance.

Ron

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 07:34:25 +1100
From: "Vince Bagusauskas" <vytis@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] "Truth" in tango advertising
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>


Ron said:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?vŠ1fr8UN0NQ
>
> It's a demonstration so maybe a little more 'showy' than how regular
> people
> dance in the milongas. It's not milonguero but I'd still call it mostly
> 'traditional'.
>

>Yes, it's a little bit showy (the boleos were a little too large), but it
>was a demo. If this was the extent of which we had to deal with in US
>milongas, I don't think we'd be fighting so much for our space and talking
>about milonga separation or milonga rules. Everyone in the video was
>respecting the line of dance.

Agree with Ron (and Jack and Sergio). There are a few nuevo moves in the
dance that would not have passed as what is allowed in salon style at the
recent world tango championships (eg leg above the knee). Would they have
been allowable at a milonga that bills itself as "close embrace"?

A couple of real milongas in Seoul, that incorporate a few nuevo moves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKgvdEMt2ks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vOIKrjWHGI
Many of the coupless would not be tagged as doing salon or millonguero
style.


A Seoul milonga that was identified as "alternative" with what appears to be
respectful dancers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlY6-sDc614

No need to label a milonga if everyone is respectful. And if not, the host
can do something about it I guess.

Have a good day.