6172  under-turned and over-turned ochos

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Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:30:19 GMT
From: "larrynla@juno.com" <larrynla@juno.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] under-turned and over-turned ochos
To: tango-L@mit.edu

The year after Fabian Salas was last here in L.A. "Chicho" Frumboli came here
several times. One of his classes covered under-turned and over-turned ochos.

Up to then, despite having maybe three dozen teachers face-to-face
(though most just for a few hours) and seen lots of videos, ochos just
meant two 180-degree turns after another that returned the dancer to
(usually her) starting position. Frumboli explained that
there is a whole family of figures with pivots in them.

________________________________ under-turned ochos
Suppose instead of two 180-degree turns the man leads two 90-degree
turns. They produce a zig-zag figure that travels (usually) along the
line of dance. He called these under-turned ochos. So the man,
instead of standing in the same spot to lead the ocho, must travel with
the woman. If he leads her to step backward he has to step forward.
They mirror each other.

Or if he leads her to step forward, doing under-turned forward ochos,
he has to step backward. So he should first lead the two of them into
a half-turn to remain moving along the line of dance.

________________________________ over-turned ochos
Leading ochos where the woman does greater than 180-degree pivots
creates over-turned ochos. If her pivot is 270 degrees (a 3/4 turn) or
360 degrees (a full turn) the leader may only want her to do a single
pivoting step, not two the way one does the normal ocho. But such is
possible, just not easy. And the man is going to have to do some
movement from his starting spot as with zig-zags.

________________________________ sideways ochos
If the man leads his partner to pivot and step across behind (or in
front) of her supporting foot he can lead ochos to the left and right
instead of along (or opposite) the line of dance.

________________________________ grapevines/braids/cadenas
If you take the half a forward ocho and half a backward ocho and stick
them together (along with, perhaps, other individual steps), what do
you get?

Several possibilities. Among them is the cadena, which I first
encounted in a modern dance class under the name of the braid, and in a
jazz dance class as a grapevine. It might be of this pattern: side, to
the side crossing behind, side, to the side crossing in front, and
repeat. The man typically mirrors his partner. When she steps side
crossing behind he steps side crossing in front. Or he can duplicate
her step, so both are crossing behind at the same time.

Another possibility: a man can lead the cadena so the woman makes a box
or hexagon or octagon around the man while he stands in the same spot,
turning to remain facing her. This is the molinete (wheel), where he
is the hub and she the rim.

________________________________ colgadas
Further development of these ideas leads to the colgada, where the two
partners lean away from each other and the woman spins on one foot
while the man steps from side to side on each side of her supporting
foot. With her free foot she can do several kinds of adornos, most
often just a long kick back that leaves her free leg extended until he
stops the spin, maybe after just a half-turn or maybe after several
complete turns.

________________________________ Nuevo? Or not?
I don't know if all these possibilities can really be included under
the umbrella of "nuevo" tango. I seem to recall seeing a few of these
combinations before Naveira and Salas began widely teaching after "The
Tango Lesson" made them well known. But it was a revelation to me that
the combinations were all related.

And significant historically perhaps that it was teachers identified by
others (but not by themselves) as nuevo tango teachers who taught these
classes.


Larry de Los Angeles
http://shapechangers.wordpress.com



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Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:19:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] under-turned and over-turned ochos
To: tango-L@mit.edu

Larry,

You often amaze me with your posts and now I don't know whether you're
playing with us or not. Just who were these "three dozen teachers" who
could teach Ochos and fail to mention that the amount of turn can vary?
Sorry, but it just beggars belief. OK, overturned Ochos can wait, but, IMHO,?
underturned Ochos should be taught in the very?first 'Ochos lesson' because,
for one thing, they're easier for the lady than the full 180 deg turn and secondly,?
as Larry mentions,?they're progressive rather than staying is one place.?I also
like to rotate?to right or left?while the lady does her Ochos as she circles around
me. This is achieved?by varying the amount of turn in each of the 2 steps of the
Ocho. Again, especially with the forward Ocho, IMO, this is suitable for beginners.

C'mon Larry, tell us you're just kidding :-).

Jack


> From: "larrynla@juno.com" <larrynla@juno.com>
>
> Up to then, despite having maybe three dozen teachers face-to-face
> (though most just for a few hours) and seen lots of videos, ochos just
> meant two 180-degree turns after another that returned the dancer to
> (usually her) starting position.? Frumboli explained that
> there is a whole family of figures with pivots in them.?
>











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