4541 West Coast Swing
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 06:49:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Gmucs <gmucs@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] West Coast Swing
To: tango-L@mit.edu, steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Take a look at
https://www.streetswing.com/histmain/z3wcs1.htm
for a thorough treatment of WCS origins
----- Original Message ----
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:15:59 -0700
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] West Coast Swing
To: <tango-L@mit.edu>
Regarding the origins of swing.
Have somebody seen "The Spirit Moves" ?
What do you think?
( 3 short tapes cost about $150. Performance by black dancing amateurs of
Savoy in 1940-s.
It is rather the collection of documents, visual facts than movie.
"Only for true aficionados".
)
They present vividly that it was "slotted". ( I do not give any
explanations - I am not a specialist in it. I am zero in swing. But I've
seen it, so I think the record might give ideas why. )
Igor.
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] West Coast Swing
To: tango-L@mit.edu
While investigating the origin of West Coast Swing, and the music it was originally
danced to, I ran across a few convergences with tango. I shared that information with the list.
This led to some reaction, and a West Coast Swing thread. I replied to the first post
privately, since WCS is a bit off topic. The second post in that thread led me to decide
to share what I found on this off tango topic - West Coast Swing (Although WCS
does share the improvisational nature of Argentine Tango).
The roots of West Coast Swing are in the Swing Era. But, "swing" refers not only to
Big Band Swing, but more generally how music is played. Most accounts of how
WCS came to be go from jazz/blues to R&B to Rock ?n Roll. I have come to believe
that this account leaves something out. On another dance forum the only person who
mentioned this other element was from Australia! The unmentioned element is
Western Swing.
Here?s how I arrived at the Western Swing connection. I have endeavored to list the
source of all of my information. WCS is the "state dance" of California. Although it is
likely that a similar style evolved in other parts of the country, Southern California has
the best documented scene, and the most publicity.
This is from from a personal communication (July 6, 2006 email) from Sonny Watson
"Swing Music was the thing for a good amount of time. However the music was
changing into Rock and Roll about the mid 40's as Blues, Boogie-Woogie, Western
Swing Music etc stated above." (Get started on his web site at https://www.streetswing.com/ to see why I think he has cred )
from a web site ---
"Back east they stayed with the big band sound, which you could only do eastern
swing to. But here, we didn't have big band places; we had country-western and blues.
Dancing in a slot (i.e., West Coast Swing) fit that kind of music better," Blair says.
"supplied by Diane Jarmolow of the Ballroom Dance Teachers College
and reprinted with(out) permission.". (And Skippy Blair was there. She was born
3/15/1924 - streetswing - smp) https://www.firststepdance.com/histories/east_west.php
And this regarding Tex Williams ---
The singer and guitarist caught his first big break after moving to Los Angeles in 1942.
At that time California was populated by many former Texans and Oklahomans
working in the defense industry, creating a need for Western swing entertainment in a
region not noted for country music. https://www.cmt.com/artists/az/williams_tex/bio.jhtml
And... Bob Wills Western Swing
"Toward the end of the decade (the 30s sp) , big bands were dominating popular
music and Wills wanted a band capable of playing complex, jazz-inspired
arrangements. To help him achieve his sound, he hired arranger and guitarist Eldon
Shamblin, who wrote charts that fused country with big band music for the Texas
Playboys. By 1940, he had replaced some of the weaker musicians in the lineup,
winding up with a full 18-piece band. The Texas Playboys were breaking concert
attendance records across the country, filling out venues from Tulsa to California; and
they also had their first genuine national hit with "New San Antonio Rose," which
climbed to number 11 in 1940. Throughout 1941 and 1942, Bob Wills & His Texas
Playboys continued to record and perform and they were one of the most popular
bands in the country. ...their singles for Columbia, which were consistently reaching
the Top Five between 1945 and 1948; ..." https://www.cmt.com/artists/az/wills_bob/bio.jhtml
Well now. It turns out the West Coast Swing was called Western Swing early on.
Laur? Haile is credited with the first written description of what the dancers were doing
in the Los Angeles area in "the 1940s" (the date is pretty ill defined in most accounts
and that would be WCS).
"In 1951 Laur? Haile first published her dance notes as a syllabus, which included
Western Swing for the Santa Monica Arthur Murray Dance Studio." History of Swing
Dancing By: Lori Heikkila - many sites use her articles
https://www.centralhome.com/ballroomcountry/swing.htm
By the late 1950s the Western thing no doubt wasn?t selling anymore, what with the
popularity of the "new" rock ?n roll. West Coast Swing had been a generic term for the
way swing was danced on the West Coast. It started being used consistently for what
we think of as WCS.
Although Western Swing doesn?t fit well with the swing kid image, it looks to me like it
was an important part of those early years.
Meanwhile, I?ve gotten annoyed by the accounts that leave out the young white guy Western Swing (like Bill Haley and the Saddlemen) and country (like Elvis Presley) contribution to R&B that yielded the wildy popular Rock ?n Roll. But, that?s another off topic.
Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 11:54:13 -0400
From: "tangosmith@cox.net" <tangosmith@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] West Coast Swing
To: tang0man2005@yahoo.com, tango-l@mit.edu
Steve,
Trying to determine the origin of any particular dance style seems to me
pretty much like chasing a cloud. Like the popularity or obscurity of most
other creative endeavors that depend on the vagrancies of collective human
taste such as music, art, fashion, etc., the beginnings of movements or
styles are often very ill-defined. In fact, they generally do not actually
ever ?begin,? rather they simply evolve over some period of time,
influenced by many different factors from multiple sources that happen to
converge and then appears as something someone thinks is recognizably
different. To complicate matters more, the labels that we then decide to
arbitrarily apply to these evolved styles almost never have a definition
that is universally accepted.
A perfect example is the (endless) discussions we have here on the style(?)
of close embrace tango. We vainly attempt to define and agree on important
aspects of it. How close is close? Does it mean close all the time, or
can it mean most of the time, or what if it is used only when the occasion
calls for it? What is it if its danced on a stage? Who were the first
couple to ever dance in a close embrace? Was the man a young compradito or
an old milonguero? What was the date and the day of the week? Did the man
lead it or did the follower merely accept an invitation? What was the size
of the floor and how many other dancers were there at the time of the first
close embrace? What milonga in what BsAs neighborhood was it danced at
first? Or are we absolutely certain that it didn?t actually originate in
Paris, Finland, Houston, Texas or heaven forbid, Uruguay? Did the working
women of La Boca get paid to dance close embrace with the dockworkers and
fishermen, or was it part of a package price? When men taught other men
how to tango, did they use close embrace? Did it induce tango moments for
them as well?
Just as soon as we nail down the answers to these vital questions in
understanding our tango, I?m certain we can solve the origins of West Coast
Swing for you ;).
W.B. Smith
P.S. You might want to compare your evolution of WCS to DC Hand Dancing,
another slower version of swing danced mostly to R&B.
-----------------
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2006 07:38:27 -0700 (PDT)
To: tango-L@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] West Coast Swing
While investigating the origin of West Coast Swing, and the music it was
originally
danced to, I ran across a few convergences with tango. I shared that
information with the list.
This led to some reaction, and a West Coast Swing thread. I replied to
the first post
privately, since WCS is a bit off topic. The second post in that thread
led me to decide
to share what I found on this off tango topic - West Coast Swing
(Although WCS
does share the improvisational nature of Argentine Tango).
The roots of West Coast Swing are in the Swing Era. But, "swing" refers
not only to
Big Band Swing, but more generally how music is played. Most accounts of
how
WCS came to be go from jazz/blues to R&B to Rock ?n Roll. I have come to
believe
that this account leaves something out. On another dance forum the only
person who
mentioned this other element was from Australia! The unmentioned element
is
Western Swing.
Here?s how I arrived at the Western Swing connection. I have endeavored
to list the
source of all of my information. WCS is the "state dance" of California.
Although it is
likely that a similar style evolved in other parts of the country,
Southern California has
the best documented scene, and the most publicity.
This is from from a personal communication (July 6, 2006 email) from
Sonny Watson
"Swing Music was the thing for a good amount of time. However the music
was
changing into Rock and Roll about the mid 40's as Blues, Boogie-Woogie,
Western
Swing Music etc stated above." (Get started on his web site at
https://www.streetswing.com/ to see why I think he has cred )
from a web site ---
"Back east they stayed with the big band sound, which you could only do
eastern
swing to. But here, we didn't have big band places; we had
country-western and blues.
Dancing in a slot (i.e., West Coast Swing) fit that kind of music
better," Blair says.
"supplied by Diane Jarmolow of the Ballroom Dance Teachers College
and reprinted with(out) permission.". (And Skippy Blair was there. She
was born
3/15/1924 - streetswing - smp)
https://www.firststepdance.com/histories/east_west.php
And this regarding Tex Williams ---
The singer and guitarist caught his first big break after moving to Los
Angeles in 1942.
At that time California was populated by many former Texans and Oklahomans
working in the defense industry, creating a need for Western swing
entertainment in a
region not noted for country music.
https://www.cmt.com/artists/az/williams_tex/bio.jhtml
And... Bob Wills Western Swing
"Toward the end of the decade (the 30s sp) , big bands were dominating
popular
music and Wills wanted a band capable of playing complex, jazz-inspired
arrangements. To help him achieve his sound, he hired arranger and
guitarist Eldon
Shamblin, who wrote charts that fused country with big band music for the
Texas
Playboys. By 1940, he had replaced some of the weaker musicians in the
lineup,
winding up with a full 18-piece band. The Texas Playboys were breaking
concert
attendance records across the country, filling out venues from Tulsa to
California; and
they also had their first genuine national hit with "New San Antonio
Rose," which
climbed to number 11 in 1940. Throughout 1941 and 1942, Bob Wills & His
Texas
Playboys continued to record and perform and they were one of the most
popular
bands in the country. ...their singles for Columbia, which were
consistently reaching
the Top Five between 1945 and 1948; ..."
https://www.cmt.com/artists/az/wills_bob/bio.jhtml
Well now. It turns out the West Coast Swing was called Western Swing
early on.
Laur? Haile is credited with the first written description of what the
dancers were doing
in the Los Angeles area in "the 1940s" (the date is pretty ill defined in
most accounts
and that would be WCS).
"In 1951 Laur? Haile first published her dance notes as a syllabus, which
included
Western Swing for the Santa Monica Arthur Murray Dance Studio." History
of Swing
Dancing By: Lori Heikkila - many sites use her articles
https://www.centralhome.com/ballroomcountry/swing.htm
By the late 1950s the Western thing no doubt wasn?t selling anymore, what
with the
popularity of the "new" rock ?n roll. West Coast Swing had been a generic
term for the
way swing was danced on the West Coast. It started being used
consistently for what
we think of as WCS.
Although Western Swing doesn?t fit well with the swing kid image, it
looks to me like it
was an important part of those early years.
Meanwhile, I?ve gotten annoyed by the accounts that leave out the young
white guy Western Swing (like Bill Haley and the Saddlemen) and country
(like Elvis Presley) contribution to R&B that yielded the wildy popular
Rock ?n Roll. But, that?s another off topic.
Groups are talking. We?re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo!
Groups.
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
https://mail2web.com/ .
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2006 01:10:04 +0900
From: "astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] West Coast Swing/ Carlos' blog
To: <tangosmith@cox.net>, <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>, <tango-l@mit.edu>
Steve,
Trying to determine the origin of any particular dance style seems to me
pretty much like chasing a cloud.
A perfect example is the (endless) discussions we have here on the style(?)
of close embrace tango. We vainly attempt to define and agree on important
aspects of it. How close is close? Does it mean close all the time, or
can it mean most of the time, or what if it is used only when the occasion
calls for it? What is it if its danced on a stage?
etc.etc. I find W.B. Smith refreshing.
And a guy charms me even more is Carlos Can~edo with his blog, who I
discovered through a link on Cherie Magnus' website.
Copied without permission (you don't mind, do you, Carlos?), foul language
and all, from www.thetangocompany.com:
5/11/06-
The next person who tells you what tango is or what tango isn't, punch em in
the mouth! Well, not really, but pretend to. I'm tired of hearing these
people defining, pigeonholing, and barricading me into one side of the wall
or the other. Tango to me is what it is TO ME! Tango to you is what it is TO
YOU. Don't let nobody put a label on you, your artform, or your community.
Technique, for example. "Tango is danced this way, it must always be danced
that way, blah blah blah". That shit is so tired. The more rules you put on
it, the less people you attract. As those of you who have ever taken a
lesson with more than one teacher, or danced with more than one partner-
People do the shit different than each other! It's diverse AND THAT IS
AWESOME! People tend to feel very possessive of Tango. But it's not yours!
Hell, it's not mine! It's everybody's! So we have to stop alienating people
with rules and conditions and start opening our doors to people and
accepting change and evolution of Tango, whatever it is. And music. Tango
music. Music that makes you wanna dance Tango to it. What is it? It's
different to all of us. Hell, people for years told Piazzolla he wasn't
playing Tango. Now check out his legacy inn the Tango community. In fact,
the next person who tells you what tango music is or isn't, punch them in
the mouth. Well, not really, but pretend to. Muthafuckas drive me crazy when
they tell me what tango can or cannot be danced to. I know what I like to
dance to, as everybody has favorites. I'm not saying we have to like
everything, but the songs I don't like, I don't dance to. I don't say YOU
can't dance to it. Dance to whatever moves you. I'll just chill and wait for
the next tanda. Play on, play-uh! Remember, weak minds generalize, and
weaker minds judge. And that's not to say you can't personally have an
opinion on what is or isn't, it's just that, to me, there is no unversal
definition of music, dance...or art in general. And definitely not Tango. As
George Clinton ever so poignantly put it, "Free your mind, and your ass will
follow!"
1 4 3,
Carlos Canedo
PS-I prommise all my blogs won't be complaints. I just had this on my
mind...
What follows is even better. Copy and paste:
5/12/06-
Men, we are bummed! We are bummed because women got it all over us, when it
comes to Tango. It's a given that they follow better than us (...well,
except me cuz I follow like f-ing princess!) but they also lead better than
us. They are more patient, they learn faster (in my experience), they are
more sensitive to the subtleties of the dance, and they are more musical. We
better get our act together, cuz we will be out of the game in no thyme
quick. Get out there and practice! Pay more attention to the follower's
feelings, take a class as a follower every now and then, and, for God's
sake, LISTEN TO THE MUSIC....AND DANCE TO IT! If we don't, fellas, we will
be sitting on the bench, enjoying cheap wine and cheaper conversation about
"how good it used to be when we had 2, 3 girls to every guy around here"
while the women lead each other, follow each other, and walk right by us on
their way to the bar after a night of non-stop dancing! Get it together
play-uh!
