6145  What's going on here?

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Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 08:48:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] What's going on here?
To: tango-l@mit.edu

A recent Milonga video from Germany
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo
what's going on here?..is there a line of dance?
Is this Tango music?
How do they reserve space to dance and what
goes on if the tempo increases? ..is there a
'no kick' agreement?
Will this catch on do you think?
Is this happening in your town?
Suggestions for what to call it???? thks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo









Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 11:36:33 -0600
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What's going on here?
To: "Tango-L List" <tango-l@mit.edu>
<cff24c340811070936o1cd4e58dh9b840f8ce808bc9e@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com> wrote:

> A recent Milonga video from Germany
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo
> what's going on here?

Mostly tango fastasia elements

..is there a line of dance?

At the out edge of the floor there is, less so in the middle

> Is this Tango music?

No. The people dancing are mostly ignoring the music anyway.

> How do they reserve space to dance and what
> goes on if the tempo increases? ..is there a
> 'no kick' agreement?

You will have to contact the milonga organizer for answers to these questions

> Will this catch on do you think?

Where have you been? This is not confined to Germany. It is
characteristic of many milongas in the US as well.

> Is this happening in your town?

Unfortunately, yes, way too much of the same, and it is very popular.

> Suggestions for what to call it?

In the US it is often called an Alternative Milonga. I would prefer
that people hosting these events find a different name for it, maybe
"Nuevilonga".

Ron





Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 18:42:19 -0300
From: "Maria Olivera" <ma_olivera@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What's going on here?
To: <sopelote@yahoo.com>, <tango-l@mit.edu>

I would call it a place where people are dancing some "tango related"
movements, with some "tango related" music, but that's certainly not a
"milonga" in the strict meaning of that word.

In my opinion, tango communities should start to distinguish the meaning of
the words, not just because some people are embracing one another and moving
their legs coordinately that means they are dancing Tango. Tango is not only
a sportive way of moving our bodies, but a culture that has more than 100
years of existence and its own traditions and limits, which are given by a
sense of sharing, not only sharing the dance with our partners, but sharing
the space with all the other attendants, if that lacks, then it's hard to
believe that we're respecting what many generations of dancers, musicians,
composers and teachers have been trying to build throughout the years.

Warmes regards to all of you!

Mar?a
www.tangosalon.com.ar
-----Mensaje original-----
De: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] En nombre de
Mario
Enviado el: viernes, 07 de noviembre de 2008 01:48 p.m.
Para: tango-l@mit.edu
Asunto: [Tango-L] What's going on here?

A recent Milonga video from Germany
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo
what's going on here?..is there a line of dance?
Is this Tango music?
How do they reserve space to dance and what
goes on if the tempo increases? ..is there a
'no kick' agreement?
Will this catch on do you think?
Is this happening in your town?
Suggestions for what to call it???? thks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo










Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 00:22:43 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] what's going on here?
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo


IMO this is a nice small group of tango dancers, moving to the beat of alternative music.
It is a rather monotonous music that renders the dance itself monotonous.

The main problem is that when you use alternative music the "feeling" changes, the tango choreographic moves are there but adapted to a music that (in this particular case) is devoid of the variations of the "real" tango music. It is a music that lacks the dynamic changes of tango, the slow moments (adagios), the pauses, the fast moments (variaciones).

The instruments coming to the forestage for a short time, to immediately go back to allow another one to show up and answer.

Tango is like a river that flows and meanders in the plains, becomes strong and fast in the mountains; at times runs very slowly in a pool of clear water, at
certain moments becomes dramatic, running under the thunder of stormy weather to finaly precipitate itself into the open arms of the ocean.


Summary: the whole activity lacks the dynamic changes that are characteristic of Argentine Tango.

A rumba choreography would adjust better to this type of music.

We, on the other hand should not be dogmatic, perhaps this same group of good dancers dance differently to classical tango music, the same as we do.

This might be a moment when they decided to use this type of music for a different type of enjoyment of the dance, a moment of hypnotic calm.

Most milogueros dance differently even to the different tango orchestras.

Who knows?

Best regards, Sergio
Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail.
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Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 17:51:44 -0700
From: "Huck Kennedy" <tempehuck@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] what's going on here?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<ecf43f370811071651j2d3d4e67se278e99dc59e972@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 5:22 PM, Sergio Vandekier
<sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo
>
> IMO this is a nice small group of tango dancers, moving to the beat of alternative music.
> It is a rather monotonous music that renders the dance itself monotonous.

I agree, that is precisely the problem with most neo-tango music.
It serves very nicely as intriguing background sound in a plush,
dimly lit cocktail lounge, but I very soon get bored dancing to it.

Huck





Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 17:29:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Dubravko Kakarigi <dubravko_2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] what's going on here?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Cc: Gordon Erlebacher <erlebach@scs.fsu.edu>, Shoko Letton
<reinadebambu@gmail.com>

My way of seeing this:

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo)

One thing I like about this context for dancing
is the backdrop character of the music.

This music is not danced (tango music is
danced) -- it provides a channel, a basis,
an opportunity to amplify a mood. And
then that mood is danced out in a very
personal way, just as the amplified mood
is a very personal matter.

Another point about this music is that,
for me, it has an equalizing effect on
dancing partners in a sense that allows
both partners to fully and simultaneously
create. It presents an enormous
playground for improvisation.

In other words, when it is danced
well (I have a long way to go, but desire to
get there), it allows for a continuous
change of traditional "roles" and thus the
product, the whole spectrum of dance
sensations, is co-creative. Very, very
different from classic tango dancing.

As a mater of fact, if you dance to this
music in a classic way, you will almost
certainly get bored quickly. But venture
into co-creation and you will be amazed by
the whole new set of sensations. Certainly,
some of the "classic" sensations are
"out the window" too. Hence, you gain
some and you lose some.

Of course, the classic tango is in a way
co-creative as well, but with the "roles"
very defined and maintained throughout the
dance, with very few exceptions.

I am sure there are those on this list who see
this in a very different light. I hope we realize
that we should not be seeking "the truth"
about it, but are simply sharing our own
attitude about it which can not be right or
wrong - it is very personal.

Finally, should this be called tango? I do not
really care and do not wish to discuss at all.

There is more to be said about it, but I am
afraid the message size limit would then
reject the post

...dubravko

===================================
seek, appreciate, and create beauty
this life is not a rehearsal
===================================






Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 07:42:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What's going on here?
To: tango-l@mit.edu

What's the big deal here and why even post this question?
It's just a group of people enjoying their Tango; no more,
no less. OK, they're not experts, but so what?

Mario, I've noticed this tendency in you before. You show
all the signs of becoming a first-class Tango snob.

Jack



> From: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
>
> A recent Milonga video from Germany
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo
> what's going on here?..












Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 09:33:13 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What's going on here?
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Chill, Jack. I don't think Mario expressed anything too differently than what others have said in the past/present about such videos. It's good that he is questioning. Much better than the dogma that so many people espouse.

Others have presented thoughts that I have, so I'll just add one. If a beginner who has learned the 8CB goes to a milonga and does his one step over and over again regardless of what the music says, are you willing to tell him "that's not tango"? In the video, I simply saw less experienced dancers doing their version of tango. Learning tango comes in phases. Some of these people are still in the "step" phase and haven't learned yet to really hear the music. That would have been me about 7 years ago. Something tells me that the people in the video will one day get past that phase, just like I did. But insulting people isn't the way to do it. Educating them is.

Trini de Pittsburgh



?


--- On Sat, 11/8/08, Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What's going on here?
> To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:42 AM
> What's the big deal here and why even post this
> question?
> It's just a group of people enjoying their Tango; no
> more,
> no less. OK, they're not experts, but so what?
>
> Mario, I've noticed this tendency in you before. You
> show
> all the signs of becoming a first-class Tango snob.
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> > From: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
> >
> > A recent Milonga video from Germany
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo
> > what's going on here?..
>
>
>
>
>









Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 11:51:31 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What's going on here?


--- On Sat, 11/8/08, Nikos Dalamagkas <nikdal@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, but what about if you see this in a milonga and all the
> people there
> dancing this way, after some years?
> Moreover they think this is tango, and they are advanced.
>


But you don't know that about this particular group of people at this milonga. So criticizing them in such a public forum as this is unfair.

A community is only so good as the people that run them - the organizers and the teachers. Criticize the teachers and the organizers, not the students. Those who put themselves out there publicly, such as teachers, are fair game to be evaluated. But not those who are innocently dancing and have no idea that they would be posted on the internet.

The other reality is that people do have lives outside of tango. (I should hope that everyone does.) Everyone decides for themselves what level they wish to attain. And the real factor, when it comes down to it, is what does their partner think.

Trini de Pittsburgh











Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 14:01:07 -0600
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@tangobar-productions.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What's going on here?
To: patangos@yahoo.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu

What I saw was a somewhat typical milonga scene in a small new-ish
community. Line of dance is pretty well observed, no clashes. It looked
like everyone had studied only with the same teacher, and had learned
"steps".That doesn't mean that the teacher taught only steps, he or she
could be teaching tango and the students only paid attention to what
they were looking for, e.g. steps. The dancing lacks emotion and
musicality, perhaps because the music is not tango. The general skill
level isn't bad, and with more experience and the introduction of a
variety of teachers and approaches, plus good music these folks will
probably do very nicely.

Is my attitude snobbish? probably :-)

Barbara in Puerto Vallarta

Trini y Sean (PATangoS) wrote:

>Chill, Jack. I don't think Mario expressed anything too differently than what others have said in the past/present about such videos. It's good that he is questioning. Much better than the dogma that so many people espouse.
>
>Others have presented thoughts that I have, so I'll just add one. If a beginner who has learned the 8CB goes to a milonga and does his one step over and over again regardless of what the music says, are you willing to tell him "that's not tango"? In the video, I simply saw less experienced dancers doing their version of tango. Learning tango comes in phases. Some of these people are still in the "step" phase and haven't learned yet to really hear the music. That would have been me about 7 years ago. Something tells me that the people in the video will one day get past that phase, just like I did. But insulting people isn't the way to do it. Educating them is.
>
>Trini de Pittsburgh
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Sat, 11/8/08, Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] What's going on here?
>>To: tango-l@mit.edu
>>Date: Saturday, November 8, 2008, 10:42 AM
>>What's the big deal here and why even post this
>>question?
>>It's just a group of people enjoying their Tango; no
>>more,
>>no less. OK, they're not experts, but so what?
>>
>>Mario, I've noticed this tendency in you before. You
>>show
>>all the signs of becoming a first-class Tango snob.
>>
>>Jack
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
>>>
>>>A recent Milonga video from Germany
>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo
>>>what's going on here?..
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1775 - Release Date: 11/8/2008 9:56 AM
>
>
>






Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 10:25:42 +1100
From: "Vince Bagusauskas" <vytis@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] what's going on here?
To: "'Tango-L List'" <tango-l@mit.edu>

A group of people who are enjoying their dance and some enthusiast who wants
to share it with her friends without asking for comment.

As for the music, it is a slow sensual piece, maybe the one tanda of the
evening, maybe the one slow one of a night of neuvo.


Good dancers who are into this style of music can adapt their Argentine
tango dance to it, just as they can adapt their style to the many kinds of
traditional tango music and schools of dance.


-----Original Message-----



Sent: Saturday, 8 November 2008 11:23 AM
To: Tango-L List
Subject: [Tango-L] what's going on here?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNWC76wPGOo


IMO this is a nice small group of tango dancers, moving to the beat of
alternative music.
It is a rather monotonous music that renders the dance itself monotonous.

The main problem is that when you use alternative music the "feeling"
changes, the tango choreographic moves are there but adapted to a music that
(in this particular case) is devoid of the variations of the "real" tango
music. It is a music that lacks the dynamic changes of tango, the slow
moments (adagios), the pauses, the fast moments (variaciones).

The instruments coming to the forestage for a short time, to immediately go
back to allow another one to show up and answer.

Tango is like a river that flows and meanders in the plains, becomes strong
and fast in the mountains; at times runs very slowly in a pool of clear
water, at
certain moments becomes dramatic, running under the thunder of stormy
weather to finaly precipitate itself into the open arms of the ocean.


Summary: the whole activity lacks the dynamic changes that are
characteristic of Argentine Tango.

A rumba choreography would adjust better to this type of music.

We, on the other hand should not be dogmatic, perhaps this same group of
good dancers dance differently to classical tango music, the same as we do.

This might be a moment when they decided to use this type of music for a
different type of enjoyment of the dance, a moment of hypnotic calm.

Most milogueros dance differently even to the different tango orchestras.

Who knows?

Best regards, Sergio
Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_112
008




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