6207  Your milonga secrets

ARTICLE INDEX


Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:53:24 GMT
From: "larrynla@juno.com" <larrynla@juno.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: tango-L@mit.edu

Looking back over the last couple dozen threads I see almost no mention
of milongas. Do you do them? Any secrets of how to do them, and well,
which you want to mention?

Here is an example of a performance by my favorite tango nuevo dancers,
Sebastian Arce and Mariana Montes. I love their footwork. I also like
how compact their embrace and movements are ? with two or three
exceptions no move intrudes into what on a packed floor would be someone
else's space.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LR-Us0-a48


Larry de Los Angeles
http://shapechangers.wordpress.com


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Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 19:59:37 -0500
From: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: <larrynla@juno.com>, <tango-L@mit.edu>

Yes, Larry I dance milonga. I place milonga above waltz but below tango. I take small steps, with concentration on movement and not adornments because there just isn't time, unless you rush them.

I have the delightful dilemma of deciding how to spend my time off during the presidential inauguration. Monday Jan 19 is the King Holiday and federal offices in the Washington metropolitan are closed Tuesday. Whereas half the nation seems to want to come here, I want to go elsewhere for tango. I'm thinking of Seattle, Portland, or San Francisco (just love those cable cars.) Any "warm" ideas.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Have to submit my leave slip for the Atlanta Tango Festival

----- Original Message -----



Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 5:53 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets


Looking back over the last couple dozen threads I see almost no mention
of milongas. Do you do them? Any secrets of how to do them, and well,
which you want to mention?

Larry de Los Angeles







Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 18:18:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: tango-L@mit.edu

Here's the best video I've seen on how to dance some nice Milonga.

http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=VRQ1T5zKTJ4

Jack




Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 02:23:21 +0000
From: Felix Delgado <felixydelgado@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>


> From: larrynla@juno.com
>
> Here is an example of a performance by my favorite tango nuevo dancers,
> Sebastian Arce and Mariana Montes. I love their footwork. I also like
> how compact their embrace and movements are ? with two or three
> exceptions no move intrudes into what on a packed floor would be someone
> else's space.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LR-Us0-a48

This dance is very sterile. They are dancing like robots - all head, no heart.

I find this not stepping to each beat very odd. I've always learned that in milonga, you step with each beat.

Felix


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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 00:00:17 -0500
From: melvillefox@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: felixydelgado@hotmail.com, tango-l@mit.edu

-----Original Message-----



Sent: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 8:23 pm
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets

> From: larrynla@juno.com
>
> Here is an example of a performance by my favorite tango nuevo

dancers,

> Sebastian Arce and Mariana Montes.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LR-Us0-a48

This dance is very sterile. They are dancing like robots - all head, no
heart.

I find this not stepping to each beat very odd. I've always learned
that in
milonga, you step with each beat.

Felix

-----------------------

Felix,

They're not robots, they're nuevo dancers. I know it's hard to tell the
difference. Nuevo dancers don't pay attention to the music.

Mel





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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 01:45:36 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: tango-l@mit.edu


--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Felix Delgado <felixydelgado@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Here is an example of a performance by my favorite
> tango nuevo dancers,
> > Sebastian Arce and Mariana Montes. I
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LR-Us0-a48
>

> I find this not stepping to each beat very odd. I've
> always learned that in milonga, you step with each beat.


I found it interesting because he uses it to accent certain things in the music and because he uses it very sparingly. When he does it, you can at times see the suspension he gives her so that she doesn't step.

I enjoyed the video, though I think it looks a little stiff due to Mariana's stiffness, not Sebastian. Her knees don't bend much, so that she doesn't appear as grounded. I didn't think of it as robotic. Sebastian seemed really intent on the music.

Trini de Pittsburgh














Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 13:54:38 -0700
From: "Huck Kennedy" <tempehuck@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<ecf43f370812171254v337150f5w562f116b4cee4d5d@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 3:53 PM, larrynla@juno.com <larrynla@juno.com> wrote:

> Looking back over the last couple dozen threads I see almost no mention
> of milongas. Do you do them?

An interesting question, Larry, in that it ought to be an
extremely ridiculous one, but unfortunately it is not, as apparently
quite a few people do not do milonga. To me, unless one is a beginner
and simply has not learned yet, only dancing tango and waltz but no
milonga seems as patently absurd as having an American, French, or
Russian flag with only red and white, but no blue. Or the Father, the
Son, and no Holy Ghost. Or Moe, Larry, and no Curly. Or health,
wealth, but no happiness. Or a million other broken triad analogies.

When someone tells me they don't dance milonga, I quietly shed a
tear for them, because they are missing out on some of the finest
moments tango has to offer.

I've never held this against anyone, of course--well, except for
one woman who stepped over the line and utterly disrespected the
dance, actually having the audacity to haughtily say to me in response
to a dance request, "I don't do milonga--tango is serious and for
grown-ups, and milonga is just a childish clown dance." I politely
excused myself from her company and never asked her to dance anything
else ever again. After all, if she had such a dismissively
superficial judgment about something as beautifully rich as milonga,
how much could she possibly really know about the sentimiento of tango
or waltz either?

I suspect many people who don't dance milonga are simply afraid
of it, since it doesn't seem to be taught as much as tango or waltz.
In the case of women, I find it can also be because too many beginning
leaders yanked them around too frenetically, forced them to take steps
that were too big, etc. This fear is easily overcome with a more
patient and experienced leader.

One personal note I'd like to add is that I only reach milonga
nirvana with the classic milonga music--anything newer I almost
invariably find to be too light and breezy, failing to capture the
earthy intensity of the dance, effectively trivializing it and
stripping from it its true essence; one might even go so far as to
say, emasculating it.

A request to DJ's--please don't try and get cute by playing
obscure new "milongas" in an effort to show how hip and cool and
avant-garde you are--stick to the tried and true classics. As regards
milonga music (even more so than tango or waltz), perfection has
already been achieved, and it's all been downhill from there. IMNSHO,
and all that. :-)

Huck





Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:45:29 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>


I agree with Trini. I actually thought he was dancing very musically. That is, his steps were interpreting themes in the music. Maybe not the predominant themes, but he WAS dancing well to aspects of the music. While it's true he was not doing the "default" of stepping on every beat, I've always thought that was more a guideline than a "rule."

I've always found interpreting milonga music problematic. Milonga music, like tango and valz, is complex music, multi-layered, multi-voiced. The problem is that I may "hear," and focus on and dance to, something different in the music than what my partner hears. In the slower tango and valz, this is not a problem, but in milonga, everything is going so fast that if she is not hearing and dancing to the same theme in the music, we can misstep. In my own dancing I notice this happens most in the transitions between dancing on the beat vs. dancing double-time, or dancing on the beat vs. pausing. This difficulty in making transitions at milonga-speed is no doubt why most people simply dance on every beat to avoid confusion.

As an aside, I've found that leading almost complete beginners in milonga can be pretty easy, once you give them the verbal expectation that they step and change weight on every beat.

J
TangoMoments.com



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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:23:31 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Your milonga
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>


IMO there is no way Sebastian Arce will do a milonga totally off the beat. He is well known in Buenos Aires for teaching milonga musicality.

There must be some problem in that video between the music and the dance.

He dances typical milonga steps double timing, the steps would correlate with the music if there was some way to syncronize them.

Best regards, Sergio
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Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:05:50 -0700
From: "Huck Kennedy" <tempehuck@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<ecf43f370812171605x3ffa00b5x14e1a22f097c6253@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Sergio Vandekier
<sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> IMO there is no way Sebastian Arce will do a milonga totally off the beat. He is well known in Buenos Aires for teaching milonga musicality.
>
> There must be some problem in that video between the music and the dance.

From what I've been told, there often are audio timing problems
when posting different format videos to YouTube.

Huck





Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:36:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>

--- On Wed, 12/17/08, Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> wrote:

> IMO there is no way Sebastian Arce will do a milonga totally
> off the beat. He is well known in Buenos Aires for teaching
> milonga musicality.
>
> There must be some problem in that video between the music
> and the dance.


I don't think the issue was Sebastian being off-beat. There were some moments when he deliberately paused. In one case, he was still leading Mariana to step while he stood still. In another, you can see the suspension and the typical "falling back" to lead Mariana to step, which brought attention to the melody line. He did this so rarely though, that it really made you pay more attention to the music than if he just blew through it.

The video reminded me of a comment made during Chicho's and Sebastian's stop at the DC Marathon a couple of years ago. A friend who was at Chicho's workshop commented that Chicho asked the class whether they were in control of the music or if the music in control of them. Sebastian's video show the former.

Trini de Pittsburgh









Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 23:48:03 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>

--- On Wed, 12/17/08, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:

The problem is that I

> may "hear," and focus on and dance to, something
> different in the music than what my partner hears. In the
> slower tango and valz, this is not a problem, but in
> milonga, everything is going so fast that if she is not
> hearing and dancing to the same theme in the music, we can
> misstep. In my own dancing I notice this happens most in the
> transitions between dancing on the beat vs. dancing
> double-time, or dancing on the beat vs. pausing.


I have the same problem, too, when I lead. The secret for the women is that they need to keep their legs very relaxed, what I call the "the rag doll". It's as if the man is moving around like a rag doll. The tendency for women is to tense up when things get a little hectic and they should be doing exactly the opposite.

In watching the three videos presented, what strikes me is the different flavors of the couples based largely on how the women were moving. The men were moving with similar character, but the women presented themselves quite differently. Mariana as very upright, Javier's partner was earthy and showed off her hips, and Elina was elegant and played with her feet. To me, Elina seemed the most connected and expressive with her partner. She looked quite natural and unstylized.

Trini de Pittsburgh










Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 02:43:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>

Trini and Jay,

Sorry, but I just don't get this. When dancing Milonga in particular,
because of the quicker tempo and shorter reaction time for my partner,
I dance in very close embrace with the best connection I can muster.
So if I'm dancing to what I 'hear' in the music, I lead my partner to do
the same, i.e. to dance to what I hear, not what she hears. Sometimes
I might do double-time while leading her to do single-time but we're still
following what I hear. At other times, my partner might 'play' with?her
steps or hips?in between my leads but she's still following the same
basic rhythm as me. This idea of the lady 'doing her own thing' regardless
of what I hear is like my worst nightmare. IMHO, the lady shouldn't simply
dance to what she 'hears', regardless of what the man hears.

Following the man doesn't mean the lady can't impose her own personality
on the dance. As Trini correctly says Mariana, Geraldine and Elina all dance
their own styles. But each is still following the music that the man hears and
interpets, just maybe some other things as well that don't conflict with what
the man hears.

Some dancers, maybe Chicho, might be skilled enough to dance to one
rhythm?while leading his partner to dance to another rhythm but, IMO,?
that's way beyond the abilities of most - certainly mine..

Jack?
?
----- Original Message ----

> From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) <patangos@yahoo.com>
>
> I have the same problem, too, when I lead.?










Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 17:15:42 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>


Jack,

Yeah, well, I don't disagree with you. But you missed what I was trying to describe. A lame lead/description on my part no doubt.

But here's the deal as I see it. Yes, clearly a follower is following what the leader leads based on what he's hearing in the music. But as we all know, ala Gavito, proper leading requires the leader to pay attention to and "follow" the follower too in adjusting his steps and timing to accommodate whatever lack of precision in the lead-follow connection.

But when a leader and follower are in Very Good connection, it can happen that the line between who's leading and who's following blurs. Each is responding to the other. The leader is still leading, but if he's listening closely to his partner and her responses, he'll know what she wants, what she's listening to in the music, and give it to her. I'm not talking about a follower "doing her own thing," I'm talking
about the leader facilitating her self-expression and leading her to do
what she wants to do. It's just that, at milonga-speed it all becomes more difficult.

J






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Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 10:00:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Iron Logic <railogic@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: tango-l@mit.edu, Felix Delgado <felixydelgado@hotmail.com>

Hello Felix,
Sebastian Arce is one of the few dancers who dance every minor beat of milong. And you feel he is doesn't go with music ?:)
Unfortunately in this video, music / sound are not in sync( a youtube glitch), still if you observe carefully you will notice relationshop between step patterns and rythm of music.
His rhythm and speed absolutely fantastic, only other dancers I know come close in musical precision may be Chicho or Gustavo. But milongas? Sebastian is the best :)
?
It is possible he does not step every beat at times, but must be extremely difficult:).
?
More videos of him
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcU_np2TnuU (demo, a little off again)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rjbyYF3peo (demo compact)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6GZicIfOGc (show)
?
IL

--- On Tue, 12/16/08, Felix Delgado <felixydelgado@hotmail.com> wrote:



From: Felix Delgado <felixydelgado@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: tango-l@mit.edu



Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 10:00:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>

--- On Thu, 12/18/08, Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com> wrote:

> So if I'm dancing to what I 'hear' in the
> music, I lead my partner to do the same, i.e. to dance to what I hear, not what she hears.

What I was referring to (and I think Jay experiences this, too) is when the woman doesn't hear as many layers as the man does and she's fixed on hearing one layer, then she isn't able to switch to a different layer of music. In milongas, three different rhythms can be present in the same song - single time, double-time, and the milonga rhythm. Sometimes single time dominates but the milonga rhythm lies underneath. So if she's fixated on the single time, I have a hard time switching to the underlying milonga rhythm. If the woman hears more layers than the man, she has her ornaments to dance her musicality.

When I follow, it does drive me nuts when my partner misses the pauses/freezes in milonga (there's not much I can do about it either without backleading). In Javier's demo, he doesn't dance the pauses the first time they occur, but he catches them toward the end. When I'm leading the pause but the woman continues bouncing around, it's a bit of a bummer. If I can get her to hear the change in the music, then she tends to enjoy hitting the pauses when I try them later.

I'm sure there's more work I need to do on my leading, but it's makes such a big difference when the woman is attuned to the music.


> Some dancers, maybe Chicho, might be skilled enough to
> dance to one rhythm?while leading his partner to dance to another
> rhythm but, IMO,?that's way beyond the abilities of most - certainly
> mine..

But Jack, you do this every time you lead a woman to the cross in cross system. Or lead her to do a molinete as you do an enrosque. Or if you just lead her to extend her foot as you stand still. Just take those ideas and experiment on them. Just do it consciously and soon you'll be doing it for the fun of it.

Trini de Pittsburgh











Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:12:44 -0800
From: Norman Tiber <natiber@charter.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: tango-l@mit.edu
format=flowed

Trini,
In addition to ?single time, double-time, and the milonga rhythm,? I
think you need to add syncopated rhythm to cover the variety of
rhythms that one can use dancing to milonga music.
Norm




Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 06:37:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Your Milonga secrets
To: tango-l@mit.edu

"Trini,
In addition to ?single time, double-time, and the milonga rhythm,? I?
think you need to add syncopated rhythm to cover the variety of?
rhythms that one can use dancing to milonga music."
Norm

?Nope, 'fraid not...words and anal yses won't do it....dancing will.
?Here's a guy that can dance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGUfq77q0e4
Perhaps, if the 'teacher' danced with and for the students...that would help.
The whole idea is to FEEL the music.
The Milonga beat is NOT difficult...no more than the Vals..
It's just that the Tango steps can't fit into it...gee, got to dance!







Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 11:32:37 -0500
From: Richard Isaacs <RBIsaacs@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your Milonga secrets
To: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu

Friday, December 19, 2008, 9:37:04 AM, you wrote:

M> The Milonga beat is NOT difficult...no more than the Vals..

It is common for a beginner to think that the vals beat is not
difficult. It just indicates that you are doing the neophyte's count
of 1 2 3. When you become more experienced and go to the more
challenging 2 3 1 or 3 1 2 counts vals becomes an entirely different
ballgame.


M> It's just that the Tango steps can't fit into it...

If you look at the great Pepito Avellaneda's "Asi Se Baila Milonga"
instructional program you will see that he uses tango steps as the
basis of his milonga.

And by the way, don't think that Pepito is dancing close embrace just
because he is pressed against his partner: It really IS milonga.












Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 10:33:54 -0700
From: "Huck Kennedy" <tempehuck@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your Milonga secrets
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<ecf43f370812190933p4e79ef4y5f0776258fe6a089@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 7:37 AM, Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Trini,
> In addition to "single time, double-time, and the milonga rhythm," I
> think you need to add syncopated rhythm to cover the variety of
> rhythms that one can use dancing to milonga music."
> Norm
>
> Nope, 'fraid not...words and analyses won't do it....dancing will.
> Here's a guy that can dance:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGUfq77q0e4

Is that Billy Idol? Didn't he used to have bleached blond hair?

Huck





Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2008 09:52:41 -0800
From: Norman Tiber <natiber@charter.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: tango-l@mit.edu
format=flowed

Mario,

You say , ?fraid not...words and anal yses won't do it....dancing
will.? Are you suggesting that imitative learning is the only way to
learn to dance? Yes, ultimately everyone has to ?dance it,? but good
dance teachers know that, while some people are primarily "imitative"
learners, others are "cognitive" learners and benefit greatly from
the ?words and analysis.? Good teachers try to provide their students
with both. Understanding the difference between ?double time? and
?syncopated? rhythms, can be the first step in learning to dance
these two very different rhythms to milonga music. This is not easy
to do.

On a personal note, If your use of ?anal yses,? in response to my
posting, was deliberate and not a typo, then I suggest you need to
find a good teacher; common courtesy
can be learned!

Norm




Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 05:25:12 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: Norman Tiber <natiber@charter.net>, tango-l@mit.edu

Norm,

Since you obviously think it''s important, could you provide us
with an explanation, preferably with examples, of what you mean
by a 'syncopated rhythm' in milonga?

Cheers,
Jack



> From: Norman Tiber natiber@charter.net

> Understanding the difference between ?double time? and?
> ?syncopated? rhythms, can be the first step in learning to dance?
> these two very different rhythms to milonga music. This is not easy?
> to do.
>













Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:44:15 -0800
From: Norman Tiber <natiber@charter.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets
To: tango-l@mit.edu
format=flowed

Jack,

Very often dancers use the term ?syncopated? to describe what
musicians call ?double time.? For example, traspie is usually
danced double time. The quick, quick, slow is a symmetrical division
of the regular accent of the music. If you danced a syncopated quick,
quick, slow, you would use an asymmetrical division of the rhythm,
you displace the regular accent. This looks and feels very different.

Korey Ireland has discussed this on Tango L (see archives) and in
an interview at:
http://www.close-embrace.com/korey.html

I have a video of Gustavo and Giselle demonstrating syncopation,
dancing milonga. Go to:
http://public.me.com/natiber
To open, click on the small, downward arrow on the right.
At 26 and 39 seconds are examples of dancing syncopated milonga rhythm.

I hope this helps!

Norm






Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:52:54 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets

--- On Sun, 12/21/08, Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Since you obviously think it''s important, could
> you provide us with an explanation, preferably with examples, of what you
> mean by a 'syncopated rhythm' in milonga?
>

WARNING, if you don't like to think a lot about the music, delete this post.


I found Korey's explanation in the link that Norman sent a bit unclear if one is not already familiar with syncopa. So here's the explanation I use that I borrow from Alex Krebs.

Let's start with a base of 4 counts in tango in slow time. In other words, every time you walk on the main beat in tango, you'll count "1234". Each "1" is a step on the strong beat. If you took 2 steps, you'd be counting "12341". Your weight has the entire time for counts "234" to arrive at where you place your foot at "1". Get off of the computer and try this first to see what I mean.

For quick time, say for a rock step, you'll end up dancing "1 3 1". Here, the spaces for beats 2 and 4 are left blank. I suggest still mentally counting 1234 in your head or out loud, and you'll see that "1 3 1" marks the desired weight positions for a rock step.

A syncopa is either the addition of a beat or a taking away of a beat in an unexpected place. For example, a rock step that is "12 1". Here, the spaces for beats 3 and 4 are blank. The result is something that feel very fast at first, but then hangs like a pause. Common syncopa variations for tango include:

12 1
1 41
123 1
1 341

I suppose you could skip the "1" but that's never made sense to me. The feeling of a syncopa is similar in feeling to dancing the "12 1" or "1 31" in vals (which has a normal rhythm of 1231), but that's not considered syncopa because it's not unexpected.

Concerning it's application to milonga, I usually don't think of milonga as having a syncopated rhythm because it happens fairly rarely compared to the other rhythms. One can also dance syncopated even if the music is not syncopated. For example, the piano is clearly playing the same milonga rhythm over and over again throughout the piece, but at 39 seconds, the other instruments suddenly stop playing while the piano continues with &341. The absence of the other instruments is a syncopa, but the piano is not playing syncopa. So a someone can either dance the syncopa (which is what Gustavo or Giselle do) or dance the milonga rhythm.

Trini de Pittsburgh




Hope this helps.

Trini de Pittsburgh














From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2008 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Your milonga secrets


--- On Sun, 12/21/08, Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Since you obviously think it''s important, could
> you provide us with an explanation, preferably with examples, of what you
> mean by a 'syncopated rhythm' in milonga?
>

WARNING, if you don't like to think a lot about the music, delete this post.


I found Korey's explanation in the link that Norman sent a bit unclear if one is not already familiar with syncopa. So here's the explanation I use that I borrow from Alex Krebs.

Let's start with a base of 4 counts in tango in slow time. In other words, every time you walk on the main beat in tango, you'll count "1234". Each "1" is a step on the strong beat. If you took 2 steps, you'd be counting "12341". Your weight has the entire time for counts "234" to arrive at where you place your foot at "1". Get off of the computer and try this first to see what I mean.

For quick time, say for a rock step, you'll end up dancing "1 3 1". Here, the spaces for beats 2 and 4 are left blank. I suggest still mentally counting 1234 in your head or out loud, and you'll see that "1 3 1" marks the desired weight positions for a rock step.

A syncopa is either the addition of a beat or a taking away of a beat in an unexpected place. For example, a rock step that is "12 1". Here, the spaces for beats 3 and 4 are blank. The result is something that feel very fast at first, but then hangs like a pause. Common syncopa variations for tango include:

12 1
1 41
123 1
1 341

I suppose you could skip the "1" but that's never made sense to me. The feeling of a syncopa is similar in feeling to dancing the "12 1" or "1 31" in vals (which has a normal rhythm of 1231), but that's not considered syncopa because it's not unexpected.

Concerning it's application to milonga, I usually don't think of milonga as having a syncopated rhythm because it happens fairly rarely compared to the other rhythms. One can also dance syncopated even if the music is not syncopated. For example, the piano is clearly playing the same milonga rhythm over and over again throughout the piece, but at 39 seconds, the other instruments suddenly stop playing while the piano continues with &341. The absence of the other instruments is a syncopa, but the piano is not playing syncopa. So a someone can either dance the syncopa (which is what Gustavo or Giselle do) or dance the milonga rhythm.

Trini de Pittsburgh




Hope this helps.

Trini de Pittsburgh













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