4058 About Jealousy ( Tango tzigane )
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 12:26:56 -0500
From: Daniel Saindon <gardien@TANGO.MONTREAL.QC.CA>
Subject: Re: About Jealousy ( Tango tzigane )
Good morning
Jealousy is a tzigane tango.
Not long ago we had a radio program that
featured the "Tzigane" style of tango music.
We had a short exchange on our radio program
about what aspect of Jealousy that was Tzigane.
It was also the view of one tango aficionado
that one of the major unrecognized Tango influence in
origin of tango music besides the candombe, the spoken milongas of the
pajadores, and the african rythms found in
the Rio del Plata, was this European influence
from this people that kept migrating for thousands of years
and their musical folklore.
Best regards
Daniel Saindon, Montreal
Producer for Radio Tango
MTL BS AS VICE VERSA
every Friday morning @ 8 AM
and Monday at 2 AM in Real Audio format
at this address on the web
https://www.radiocentreville.com/
https://www.tango.montreal.qc.ca/radiotango/
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:04:11 -0800
From: Tango Gypsie <tangogypsie@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: About Jealousy ( Tango tzigane )
Hi!
I'm writing with the assumption that when Daniel Saindon of Montreal uses the word 'tzigane' he means 'gypsy'.
The major music and dance contribution of gypsy people was of course the flamenco. I've heard that flamenco influenced tango music but I don't know how. Perhaps there is someone on this list who is knowledgeable, and would like to comment, on this aspect of tango history.
I'd also like to know why Jealousy, or any other tango, would be called tzigane tangos.
Regards
Tango Gypsie
Daniel Saindon <gardien@TANGO.MONTREAL.QC.CA> wrote:
Good morning
Jealousy is a tzigane tango.
Not long ago we had a radio program that
featured the "Tzigane" style of tango music.
We had a short exchange on our radio program
about what aspect of Jealousy that was Tzigane.
It was also the view of one tango aficionado
that one of the major unrecognized Tango influence in
origin of tango music besides the candombe, the spoken milongas of the
pajadores, and the african rythms found in
the Rio del Plata, was this European influence
from this people that kept migrating for thousands of years
and their musical folklore.
Best regards
Daniel Saindon, Montreal
Producer for Radio Tango
MTL BS AS VICE VERSA
every Friday morning @ 8 AM
and Monday at 2 AM in Real Audio format
at this address on the web
https://www.radiocentreville.com/
https://www.tango.montreal.qc.ca/radiotango/
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:21:31 -0700
From: Bruno Romero <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: About Jealousy ( Tango tzigane )
Tango Gypsie writes:
> The major music and dance contribution of gypsy people was of course the
flamenco. I've heard that flamenco influenced tango music but I don't know
how. Perhaps there is someone on this list who is knowledgeable, and would
like to comment, on this aspect of tango history. <
My 2 cents:
There are several opinions on this subject, but I find the one given by
Sebastian Piana interesting in comparison to others.
Tango Flamenco a.k.a Tango Andaluz (Tanguillo Español)
Source: Eduardo Giorlandini, Raices del Tango, notebook No 4, member of "Las
Academias Porteña del Lunfardo y Argentina de Artes y Ciencias de la
Comunicación".
The Rioplatense Milonga, which had been changing over time, is derived from
the Tanguillo Andaluz. It was danced mainly in Cadiz, Spain. The Spaniards
from Cuba modified the cadences of the Tanguillo Andaluz songs with local
black rhythms. This originated into a new Tango, which was slower than the
original Tanguillo Andaluz, and was sang and danced in Habana, Cuba. When
this new Tango arrived in the Rio del Plata (Buenos Aires and Montevideo) it
was called Habanera. The Habanera subsequently gave birth to the Uruguayan
and Argentinean Tango.
In central and South America the black Africans through their drums are
considered the creators of polyrhythm. Tango and Milonga come from the
African drums. The quick and upbeat note of the Cuban Tanguillo: A byproduct
of the amalgamation of the Spanish melody and black drumming was the genesis
of what would later become in the Milonga. Over time the Milonga as dance
evaporates, but its singing form remains. Ultimately, the Milonga would
assist with its rhythm to create a monochord melody over verses scripted in
10th liners.
In essence, Piana argues that the Tanguillo Andaluz a.k.a. Tanguillo
Flamenco gives birth to the Milonga, and the Habanera to the Tango. In other
words, I think Tanguillo and Habanera with common denominators give birth to
the Tango, the Tango Milonga, and the Tango itself. In any case, this
happens through a complex, infinite process, and a myriad of time
relationships.
Cheers,
Bruno
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 18:57:29 -0800
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Houston,Texas and Paris, France Gypsy Tango Music and Dancing Andres Amarilla Workshop milonga March 2-8 Re: [TANGO-L] About Jealousy ( Tango tzigane )
Dear Tango Gypsy:
On March 5th Sunday at 9pm in Houston, Texas we are
having a big milonga with "live" music by Greg
Harbar's Gypsy Tango Orchestra. Greg is a long time
friend of mine. He is playing for the big milonga for
the Andres Amarilla workshop here in town March 2-8,
details at:
Download flyer at:
https://andresamarilla.com/Houston%203-06.pdf
More info & videos at https://andresamarilla.com/
Also, I dance tango in Paris at Bistro Latin with Rona
Hartner at:
https://www.ronahartner.com
She was the ingenue, the gypsy girl, Sabina and star
of a film francais Rialisi par Tony Gatlif. The movie
was Gadjo Dilo. Rona won a prize at Cannes Film
Festival for her role a few years ago. She also
performs a lot in Paris at clubs and special events.
Rona has her own wonderful Gypsy Tango group in Paris.
One evening she even asked me to dance a tango with
her to open her show in a little "caveau" near la
place Pigalle. Rona is a wonderful girl. Always lots
of fun. She and her tango group are all from Romania.
If you ever come to Houston or Paris, let me know and
I will introduce you to Greg and Rona. I am sure that
they know the history of gypsy music and tango.
PS- Greg met Rona on my cell phone, when I was dancing
with her at Bistro Latin one night in Paris. He and
his group played live music for her during an
afternoon jam session in Houson (6 hour time
difference), and she sang for him over the cell phone
from Bistro Latin at 11pm. Wow! We had a great time
that evening...lol.
Greg's web site is:
https://www.oldworldmusic.com
More details on the muscial event are below:
March 5th-Sunday*************************
DAVID ADICKES SCULPTURWORX
8pm - 12m $15.00 to cover rent and
musicians
(Everyone brings home cooked food, Argentine and
French Wines)
Note: Live tango music provided by Greg Harbar's
Gypsy Tango Orchestra playing Argentine and
Russian Tangos, plus Gypsy Swing from the Le Jazz Hot
Club in Paris, France from the 1920's and dancing to
tango CD's. Some members of the orchestra are in the
Houston Symphony.
Tango music sample(Oblivion):
https://www.oldworldmusic.com
Una Cabesa, Burnt by the Sun (from Russian film) are
on the website at:
https://www.oldworldmusic.com
2500 Summer Street
Houston, Texas 77077
Less than 1 mile West of downtown Houston
https://www.davidadickes.com
https://www.presientspark.com
https://www.presidentspark.com
Sunday Milonga Sponsored by the following:
Tango Houston
(a 501c3 public non-profit corporation, open to all):
Tango Houston, the only truly democratic, open to the
general public, non-profit 501c3 tango organization in
Houston
https://www.tangohouston.net
Tango World Wide
(a private world-wide for profit commercial
enterprise):
Tango World Wide, currently offers a world-wide tango
calendar on the web, which can be read and updated by
anyone for FREE, by using a computer, laptop, PDA or
cell phone to find out from another dancer, where to
dance tango anywhere in the world, plus view
multimedia posted by dancers.... pictures, video,
audio and maps. Postings of members of Tango World
Wide who pay $2.95 per month or more are permanent.
Free postings are only temporary. The calendar is a
database of tango events for the world. Professionals
can also use it to post their complete class schedules
for every day of the week, hour by hour. A tango
magazine and other member benefits will be added
sometime this year.
https://www.tangoworldwide.com
Map at:
https://www.mapquest.com/pda/maps.adp/?country=us&state=tx&city=houston&address%00+summer+st
Have a great day.
Derik Rawson
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
https://www.rawsonweb.com
713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell
Phone
281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax
d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu
d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu
rawsonweb@yahoo.com
Europe/Asia
rawsonweb@compuserve.com
Paris, France
--- Tango Gypsie <tangogypsie@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> Hi!
> I'm writing with the assumption that when Daniel
> Saindon of Montreal uses the word 'tzigane' he means
> 'gypsy'.
>
> The major music and dance contribution of gypsy
> people was of course the flamenco. I've heard that
> flamenco influenced tango music but I don't know
> how. Perhaps there is someone on this list who is
> knowledgeable, and would like to comment, on this
> aspect of tango history.
>
> I'd also like to know why Jealousy, or any other
> tango, would be called tzigane tangos.
>
> Regards
> Tango Gypsie
>
> Daniel Saindon <gardien@TANGO.MONTREAL.QC.CA> wrote:
> Good morning
>
> Jealousy is a tzigane tango.
>
> Not long ago we had a radio program that
> featured the "Tzigane" style of tango music.
>
> We had a short exchange on our radio program
> about what aspect of Jealousy that was Tzigane.
>
> It was also the view of one tango aficionado
> that one of the major unrecognized Tango influence
> in
> origin of tango music besides the candombe, the
> spoken milongas of the
> pajadores, and the african rythms found in
> the Rio del Plata, was this European influence
> from this people that kept migrating for thousands
> of years
> and their musical folklore.
>
> Best regards
>
> Daniel Saindon, Montreal
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 21:09:18 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: About Jealousy ( Tango tzigane )
While Piana may be right, the reference to his conclusions related to Flamenco is necessarily taken out of context by the excerpt. The major influence on the life of Buenos Aires, was made by the Italian and Spanish immigrants. See
https://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1990/1/90.01.06.x.html for details.
Through their sheer numbers, they influenced the local culture, and created Tango. All the other influences were imho marginal at THAT time, although I cannot dismiss the eventual adoption of a new style. Suffice to look around today and see global influences in all aspects of life.
Regarding the influence of the Roma, or gypsies, or tziganes on music, the most important one was, imho, of the Hungarian Cigany on Brahms, Liszt, and others.
Finally, the Gitana Rusa is a fine tango appeciated by amateurs of Tango Liso.
Lucia ;-)
Bruno Romero <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET> escribis: Tango Gypsie writes:
> The major music and dance contribution of gypsy people was of course the
flamenco. I've heard that flamenco influenced tango music but I don't know
how. Perhaps there is someone on this list who is knowledgeable, and would
like to comment, on this aspect of tango history. <
My 2 cents:
There are several opinions on this subject, but I find the one given by
Sebastian Piana interesting in comparison to others.
Tango Flamenco a.k.a Tango Andaluz (Tanguillo Espaqol)
Source: Eduardo Giorlandini, Raices del Tango, notebook No 4, member of "Las
Academias Porteqa del Lunfardo y Argentina de Artes y Ciencias de la
Comunicacisn".
The Rioplatense Milonga, which had been changing over time, is derived from
the Tanguillo Andaluz. It was danced mainly in Cadiz, Spain. The Spaniards
from Cuba modified the cadences of the Tanguillo Andaluz songs with local
black rhythms. This originated into a new Tango, which was slower than the
original Tanguillo Andaluz, and was sang and danced in Habana, Cuba. When
this new Tango arrived in the Rio del Plata (Buenos Aires and Montevideo) it
was called Habanera. The Habanera subsequently gave birth to the Uruguayan
and Argentinean Tango.
In central and South America the black Africans through their drums are
considered the creators of polyrhythm. Tango and Milonga come from the
African drums. The quick and upbeat note of the Cuban Tanguillo: A byproduct
of the amalgamation of the Spanish melody and black drumming was the genesis
of what would later become in the Milonga. Over time the Milonga as dance
evaporates, but its singing form remains. Ultimately, the Milonga would
assist with its rhythm to create a monochord melody over verses scripted in
10th liners.
In essence, Piana argues that the Tanguillo Andaluz a.k.a. Tanguillo
Flamenco gives birth to the Milonga, and the Habanera to the Tango. In other
words, I think Tanguillo and Habanera with common denominators give birth to
the Tango, the Tango Milonga, and the Tango itself. In any case, this
happens through a complex, infinite process, and a myriad of time
relationships.
Cheers,
Bruno
Abrm tu cuenta aqum
