4090 alotta comments
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 08:49:21 -0500
From: andrea <ako31@NYC.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: alotta comments
i see i am in a very opinionated state this morning so it might be best
for me to ask some questions instead. (i think i like being the 'who
says so" of this list)
to astrid:
>> First, the man offered to dance and instead taught. In
>> other words, he lured her onto the floor with a false
>> promise. .. I despise those
>> who lie to get what they want.
is being manipulative being a LIAR?! i have had numerous teachers
invite me to dance in bs as with the thought in mind that they are
trolling for students. i knew it and they knew it and is is THAT awful?
this is one of the hardest professions to make a living at, especially
in nyc where there are great teachers on every corner between 19th and
59th sts. can you understand how hard they are trying to make a living
at doing something they LOVE in a country that thinks military budgets
are more important than grants for artists?
to michael:
> While a dancer might meet my expectations, would they meet
> those of Pablo Veron?
hmmm, have u ever danced without ANY expectations? have u ever danced
making every moment to moment a good one independent of what u have
projected on ur partner and their ability or lack there of, judgement
free?
to lucia:
> Many Tango dancers, as soon as having learned the basic moves, get the
> unsurmountable urge to teach others.
what is this about? i study buddhism and find the same thing. why when
people love something does it become imperative to convert or
evangelize others? is the self contained experience not enough?
to chris:
> Further, your subclass "can dance, still study" is surely itself a
> minority. Most dancers do
> not study. They simply dance.
how did u get so smart? but is it our place to tell others on the
dance floor to stop doing figures and start dancing with their
partners? am i in my place by slowing down the dance doing my playful
embellishments in order to get my partner's attention (it seems to
work)?
to alberto:
who is that incredible photographer?
to lucia, again:
> If you are talking about those Tango instructors who are roving the
> globe, teaching Stage Tango elements to the paying crowds who live in
> their own fantasyland, then you are right.
who are these people? would someone please name some names? i have been
hearing about these transgressional good-for -nothings for years
now...i travel the globe - who are they?
to michael de santis et al:
> two brothers (Enrique y Guillermo De Fazio) - "Los
> Hermanos Macana"
anyone know where or when these two hysterical teachers (and incredible
dancers) are going to be teaching in the US?
to barbara:
> but to have a good time and to help others, especially beginners or
> insecure
> dancers, to enjoy themselves. Beginners are, after all, the future of
> tango.
why in an environment of a dance based on connection is there such
disdain for beginners? (this from one who had a break down on every
milonga floor in manhattan when she first started due to the
intolerance for my novice status - now years later that i know a lot of
these men really well its hard to forget my initial introduction
experiences with them)
told u i had a lot of opinions (am also obviously actively avoiding
working this morning...)
a n d r e a
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 16:24:04 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: alotta comments
andrea <ako31@NYC.RR.COM> escribis: i see i am in a very opinionated state this morning so it might be best
for me to ask some questions instead. (i think i like being the 'who
says so" of this list)
to lucia:
> Many Tango dancers, as soon as having learned the basic moves, get the
> unsurmountable urge to teach others.
what is this about? i study buddhism and find the same thing. why when
people love something does it become imperative to convert or
evangelize others? is the self contained experience not enough?
- I think we agree on this one. Tango beginners that start teaching after a few lessons may do real harm.
to lucia, again:
> If you are talking about those Tango instructors who are roving the
> globe, teaching Stage Tango elements to the paying crowds who live in
> their own fantasyland, then you are right.
who are these people? would someone please name some names? i have been
hearing about these transgressional good-for -nothings for years
now...i travel the globe - who are they?
Andrea,
Closer than you may think.
If you are home these days you may have gone to Nito's classes. Now, I greatly respect Nito as a dancer and as a teacher, and I admire his way of earning his life at this age.
But, what you may have seen at Nito's classes is him teaching Fantasia figures to people who can barely tango walk, or keep themselves straight. I do not fault him - no one would come to his class if he would teach walk and posture and basic stuff. I am certain that in their mind's fantasy, many of these students regard themselves as good dancers. I do not know if there are mirrors in Nito's class, but I bet no one has the courage to beheld themselves in them :-)
a n d r e a
Lucia
Abrm tu cuenta aqum
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 09:36:25 -0800
From: Michael Figart II <michaelfigart@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: alotta comments
Andrea wrote; <<<<hmmm, have u ever danced without ANY
expectations? have u ever danced making every moment
to moment a good one independent of what u have
projected on ur partner and their ability or lack
there of, judgement free?>>>>>>
No, Andrea, I guess I'm guilty as charged. I do have
expectations. I expect those with whom I dance to have
an honest love and respect for tango as something more
than just a diversion. I expect them to have a desire
to constantly improve their skills, and therefore
their own (and mine) enjoyment on the dance floor. I
expect them to follow the generally accepted rules
regarding floorcraft and etiquette.
I enjoy dancing with beginners, and I expect them to
approach dancing tango with a positive attitude and
the seriousness that it deserves. I expect them to
have a desire to continue learning and improving, and
that's it. I do NOT expect anyone to dance beyond
their ability, or beyond their experience.
Actually, Andrea, I find your disdain quite ironic, in
that you exceeded all my expectations, yet you made it
quite clear that I did not meet yours.
Regards,
Michael from Houston (looking forward to Atlanta!)
Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 08:36:42 -0500
From: andrea <ako31@NYC.RR.COM>
Subject: alotta comments redux
yep- avoiding work again ...seems a lot of other people around the
planet are doing the same.
to tho:
> I might have a weird perspective with tango, but that perspective have
> "fun" in 't. Looking at this slide show, all I see is....my energy
> draining out.
this made me laugh because when my music producer son came to watch
tango for the first time he said the same thing. as a dj he reads the
crowd as to how to manage his musical selections. these photts captured
people in quiet, internal, vulnerable, and very human moments. maybe we
are all a bunch of depressives - gavito once told me that we all dance
tango because we have a hole where our hearts are that we are trying to
fill.
but photography as a post modern medium includes the subject, as well
as the camera, the photographer, and us -the viewers.
these photos intimated that the camera and the photographer were
missing (which we like to believe). any photo is a moment in time. the
best of which capture human moments, like poetry -without a literal
explanation. sooo....they are open to subjective interpretation and
projection. besides being raw, real, and unromanticized they are more
'incredible' because u and i could see them in totaly oppositional
lights (what was missing was the animated laughing and chatting in
between those moments -does that really matter?) tango as an
unsexualized, unflashy, belly to belly, and authentic human interaction
is the tango that i love.
to cherie and jay:
thanx for the info
to michael:
> No, Andrea, I guess I'm guilty as charged. I do have
> expectations. I expect those with whom I dance to have
> an honest love and respect for tango as something more
> than just a diversion. I expect them to have a desire
> to constantly improve their skills, and therefore
> their own (and mine) enjoyment on the dance floor. I
> expect them to follow the generally accepted rules
> regarding floorcraft and etiquette.
> I enjoy dancing with beginners, and I expect them to
> approach dancing tango with a positive attitude and
> the seriousness that it deserves. I expect them to
> have a desire to continue learning and improving, and
> that's it. I do NOT expect anyone to dance beyond
> their ability, or beyond their experience.
> Actually, Andrea, I find your disdain quite ironic, in
> that you exceeded all my expectations, yet you made it
> quite clear that I did not meet yours.
wow, guess u answered my question -thats a whole LOTTA
expectations...and criteria to impose on anyone! thanx for the
compliment but as the swami said- praise and blame are just different
sides of the same coin called judgement. i wonder how u have time to
dance with all that expectation stuff going on. i looked again and
didnt see anywhere that i stated that i had any expectations and that u
didnt meet mine.
so i will ask the question again - ever try dancing w/o anything going
on but the moment?
to all you 'saluters' yakking about rules:
last month natacha poberaj was in nyc and made it her mission to
educate nyc dancers in some rules of consideration on the dance floor.
she ran mariella franganello's practica on saturday mornings at dance
manhattan. instead of teaching a figure she made everyone dance in the
line of dance one behind each other, she made everyone get off the
floor during the cortina, she yelled you off if u didnt go, she made
everyone practice the cabeceo and she explained in great detail the
reasons for each 'rule'.
she also taught chacarara (which i wish someone would start
establishing at usa milongas!). but she went over the history and logic
for each ritualized rule. no one likes rules imposed on them but her
explantions made it all very accessible and understandable to all.
thank you natacha especially for including the woman-to-man cabaceo in
your 'times have changed' tango rules!
ok- am going to work!
a-
