4002 Appropriate clothes
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 01:16:03 -0800
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: Appropriate clothes
It does not really matter what particular style of clothing one has these
days,
as soon as it is pleasant to partners.
Pleasant TO FEEL. To feel fabric, and to feel body through the fabric,
to feel the embrace, and support and hold the connection.
Men's rough cotton shirts and pants certainly are not pleasing their more
sensitive partners.
I do not really want to embrace a woman in a prickly sweater ( as long as
she is not my friend :) )
I am sure everyone on the list is aware of that and use appropriate
pleasant clothing for their style of dance, but there are many beginners,
and even not very beginners who do wear cloth unsuitable for such sensitive
dance like tango.
So my question is, how to influence such people, what to tell them to wear
more appropriate clothes?
How to tell them that their own experience as well as self-esteem will
improve?
With time everyone understands that the dress in Tango is very important.
I have seen many times, how bad-dressing people transform studying this
magical dance.
Women become beautiful, feminine, and men handsome, "macho", and elegant (
does not matter what style they dance).
So the dance experience works by itself. Did I answer my own question?
Igor Polk
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 23:45:34 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes
> So my question is, how to influence such people, what to tell them to wear
> more appropriate clothes?
We got a new man in our milonga a few months ago who, had I not known that
he was the partner of that very skillful Japanese dancer who always shows up
with her son at the practicas, would have made me think he is a Yakuza- a
gang member of the Japanese Mafia.
He was always wearing dark sunglasses and never took them off!
The second of third time he asked me to dance, I told him: "You know, in
Buenos Aires people don't wear sunglasses. This is not suited to tango." He
was very surprised and wanted to know why. "Because like this you can't do
any eye play." (I just made up that word in Japanese.) "Eye play??? What's
that?" I explained it to him (cabezeo and stuff). "I see !", he said, and
hesitatingly took them off. and shyly looked around. "You know, I have never
taken off my sunglasses for half a year", he said. Since that time, he
always dances without glasses.
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 20:46:57 -0000
From: Dani Iannarelli <dani@TANGO-LA-DOLCE-VITA.COM>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Hello, Astrid.
I think its a damn shame that youve successfully influenced some poor
submissive bloke into changing what he considers his personal style. . .
that being to wear sunglasses.
I paraphrase your quote: Sunglasses are not suited to tango?????!!!
Suited to tango????? !!!!! Whats THAT all about???
Apart from the obvious recommendation of smartening-up for
milongas/practices (which I certainly subscribe to as I hate it when people
turn up with jeans and trainers etc and dont make an effort its almost
as bad as smelly people), people shouldnt be hassled about wearing what
they want to wear and when they want to wear it. If he wants to wear
sunglasses, let him. Dont interfere nor attempt to influence, control or
belittle. Mind your own business (Im not being aggressive to you, by the
way just matter-of-fact and logical). Anyway, it didnt do Roy Orbison any
harm! :-):-):-)
Take the analogy of the hordes of mindless automatons who in paranoia
subscribe to wearing whatever the so-called fashion happens to be at any
particular time. Why suppress individuality, be it in personal dancing
style, musical tastes, anything. . . including the wearing of attire
preferred by any individual of which this issue of sunglasses happens to be
one.
Who is to say what is suited to tango and what is not?!
If you want to discuss general tango cultural style, then its easy to see
that it comes from a tradition of tackiness and indeed kitsch. Come now,
red drapes hanging from walls with uncoordinated colours of lacings and
ribbons festooned from tables and light fittings, yecchhy candles and Bombay
Mix, cheap oversweet Champagne (served in cheap plastic glasses) the label
of which bears no resemblance to any known genuine D.O.C and probably
concocted from the cheapest cider with a blob of honey mixed in for good
luck, etc etc etc the list is endless. Tango classy style came in when
tango was introduced to the ballrooms of Paris and London in the 19-teens
and 1920s when the men wore top hat, white tie and tails and the
ladies/debutantes of the day worse the finest gowns from Paris and Milan.
Yes, I know this was simultaneously the start of the degrading process of
tango into the sickening ballroom rubbish of today because of the nature of
real tango being too risqu for the social classes of the day. The rot sets
in.
Anyway, back to personal choice of attire; perhaps Ill go to the next
milonga or ball wearing a balaclava . . . or isnt that suited to tango? ;-)
Dani
>We got a new man in our milonga a few months ago who, had I not known that
>he was the partner of that very skillful Japanese dancer who always shows
up
>with her son at the practicas, would have made me think he is a Yakuza- a
>gang member of the Japanese Mafia.
>He was always wearing dark sunglasses and never took them off!
>The second of third time he asked me to dance, I told him: "You know, in
>Buenos Aires people don't wear sunglasses. This is not suited to tango." He
>was very surprised and wanted to know why. "Because like this you can't do
>any eye play." (I just made up that word in Japanese.) "Eye play??? What's
>that?" I explained it to him (cabezeo and stuff). "I see !", he said, and
>hesitatingly took them off. and shyly looked around. "You know, I have
never
>taken off my sunglasses for half a year", he said. Since that time, he
>always dances without glasses.
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:50:08 -0800
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Dani said:
"I think it?s a damn shame that you?ve successfully influenced some poor
submissive bloke into changing what he considers his personal style. . .
that being to wear sunglasses.
I paraphrase your quote: ?Sunglasses are not suited to tango??????!!!
?Suited to tango?????? !!!!! What?s THAT all about???
"
Dear Dani,
Just yesterday I went to a radio-shop looking for, say, a boombox.
Two very young salesmen started to present be a super-duper one working from
iPod.
One wanted to find a nice tune to show me how good is the equipment.
He said "Let me find music which is good for every one", scrolling tunes on
his iPod.
Then he started to play a pretty boring rap looking at me how do I like it.
I was so surprised that I exclaimed "This is not even music!"
They were surprised with my answer even more! They asked "What is music,
then!?"
I looked at them, and went away.
Igor
Just a story without particular relation to anything.
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 23:54:16 +0000
From: Dani Iannarelli <dani@TANGO-LA-DOLCE-VITA.COM>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Ciao, Igor,
Each to his own, I suppose.
Credo nos in fluctu eodem esse.
Regards,
Dani
Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM> wrote:
Dear Dani,
Just yesterday I went to a radio-shop looking for, say, a boombox.
Two very young salesmen started to present be a super-duper one working from
iPod.
One wanted to find a nice tune to show me how good is the equipment.
He said "Let me find music which is good for every one", scrolling tunes on
his iPod.
Then he started to play a pretty boring rap looking at me how do I like it.
I was so surprised that I exclaimed "This is not even music!"
They were surprised with my answer even more! They asked "What is music,
then!?"
I looked at them, and went away.
Igor
Just a story without particular relation to anything.
Dani said:
"I think it?s a damn shame that you?ve successfully influenced some poor
submissive bloke into changing what he considers his personal style. . .
that being to wear sunglasses.
I paraphrase your quote: ?Sunglasses are not suited to tango??????!!!
?Suited to tango?????? !!!!! What?s THAT all about???
"
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 19:01:15 -0500
From: Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
And if I was their (rappers) English instructor I'd fail them for
creating/writing lousy poetry.
El Bandito de Tango
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:50:08 -0800
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Dani said:
"I think it?s a damn shame that you?ve successfully influenced some poor
submissive bloke into changing what he considers his personal style. . .
that being to wear sunglasses.
I paraphrase your quote: ?Sunglasses are not suited to tango??????!!!
?Suited to tango?????? !!!!! What?s THAT all about???
"
Dear Dani,
Just yesterday I went to a radio-shop looking for, say, a boombox.
Two very young salesmen started to present be a super-duper one working
from
iPod.
One wanted to find a nice tune to show me how good is the equipment.
He said "Let me find music which is good for every one", scrolling
tunes on
his iPod.
Then he started to play a pretty boring rap looking at me how do I like
it.
I was so surprised that I exclaimed "This is not even music!"
They were surprised with my answer even more! They asked "What is music,
then!?"
I looked at them, and went away.
Igor
Just a story without particular relation to anything.
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 00:03:44 +0000
From: Dani Iannarelli <dani@TANGO-LA-DOLCE-VITA.COM>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Better still, I'd kick their heads in.
El Zorro de Tango
Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM> wrote:
And if I was their (rappers) English instructor I'd fail them for
creating/writing lousy poetry.
El Bandito de Tango
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:50:08 -0800
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Dani said:
"I think it?s a damn shame that you?ve successfully influenced some poor
submissive bloke into changing what he considers his personal style. . .
that being to wear sunglasses.
I paraphrase your quote: ?Sunglasses are not suited to tango??????!!!
?Suited to tango?????? !!!!! What?s THAT all about???
"
Dear Dani,
Just yesterday I went to a radio-shop looking for, say, a boombox.
Two very young salesmen started to present be a super-duper one working
from
iPod.
One wanted to find a nice tune to show me how good is the equipment.
He said "Let me find music which is good for every one", scrolling
tunes on
his iPod.
Then he started to play a pretty boring rap looking at me how do I like
it.
I was so surprised that I exclaimed "This is not even music!"
They were surprised with my answer even more! They asked "What is music,
then!?"
I looked at them, and went away.
Igor
Just a story without particular relation to anything.
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 01:33:11 +0100
From: Aron ECSEDY <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Well, maybe such behaviour would not be in the same wavelength with most
other list members...
After protecting the yakuzalookalike-guy's rights to wear sunglasses for
tango it is quite suprising that you are so aggresive with the fans of
afro-american music... I guess I can only quote you:
"people shouldn't be hassled about [listening to] what they want to [hear]
and when they want to [hear] it. If he wants to [listen rap], let him. Don't
interfere nor attempt to influence, control or belittle. Mind your own
business"
Aron
> Better still, I'd kick their heads in.
>
> El Zorro de Tango
>
>
> Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM> wrote:
> And if I was their (rappers) English instructor I'd fail
> them for creating/writing lousy poetry.
>
> El Bandito de Tango
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Igor Polk
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Sent: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:50:08 -0800
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
>
> Dani said:
> "I think it?s a damn shame that you?ve successfully
> influenced some poor submissive bloke into changing what he
> considers his personal style. . .
> that being to wear sunglasses.
>
> I paraphrase your quote: ?Sunglasses are not suited to tango??????!!!
> ?Suited to tango?????? !!!!! What?s THAT all about???
> "
>
>
> Dear Dani,
>
> Just yesterday I went to a radio-shop looking for, say, a boombox.
> Two very young salesmen started to present be a super-duper
> one working from iPod.
> One wanted to find a nice tune to show me how good is the equipment.
> He said "Let me find music which is good for every one",
> scrolling tunes on his iPod.
> Then he started to play a pretty boring rap looking at me how
> do I like it.
> I was so surprised that I exclaimed "This is not even music!"
>
> They were surprised with my answer even more! They asked
> "What is music, then!?"
>
> I looked at them, and went away.
>
> Igor
> Just a story without particular relation to anything.
>
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 00:48:27 +0000
From: Dani Iannarelli <dani@TANGO-LA-DOLCE-VITA.COM>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Hey, I was only kidding! :-) :-) :-)
Aron ECSEDY <aron@MILONGA.HU> wrote:
Well, maybe such behaviour would not be in the same wavelength with most
other list members...
After protecting the yakuzalookalike-guy's rights to wear sunglasses for
tango it is quite suprising that you are so aggresive with the fans of
afro-american music... I guess I can only quote you:
"people shouldn't be hassled about [listening to] what they want to [hear]
and when they want to [hear] it. If he wants to [listen rap], let him. Don't
interfere nor attempt to influence, control or belittle. Mind your own
business"
Aron
> Better still, I'd kick their heads in.
>
> El Zorro de Tango
>
>
> Richard deSousa wrote:
> And if I was their (rappers) English instructor I'd fail
> them for creating/writing lousy poetry.
>
> El Bandito de Tango
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Igor Polk
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Sent: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 15:50:08 -0800
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
>
> Dani said:
> "I think it?s a damn shame that you?ve successfully
> influenced some poor submissive bloke into changing what he
> considers his personal style. . .
> that being to wear sunglasses.
>
> I paraphrase your quote: ?Sunglasses are not suited to tango??????!!!
> ?Suited to tango?????? !!!!! What?s THAT all about???
> "
>
>
> Dear Dani,
>
> Just yesterday I went to a radio-shop looking for, say, a boombox.
> Two very young salesmen started to present be a super-duper
> one working from iPod.
> One wanted to find a nice tune to show me how good is the equipment.
> He said "Let me find music which is good for every one",
> scrolling tunes on his iPod.
> Then he started to play a pretty boring rap looking at me how
> do I like it.
> I was so surprised that I exclaimed "This is not even music!"
>
> They were surprised with my answer even more! They asked
> "What is music, then!?"
>
> I looked at them, and went away.
>
> Igor
> Just a story without particular relation to anything.
>
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:42:20 +1100
From: Roger <rde@QDOS.NET.AU>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes
astrid wrote:
>
> Buenos Aires people don't wear sunglasses. This is not suited to tango." He
> was very surprised and wanted to know why. "Because like this you can't do
I hate dancing with someone wearing glasses. It feels like a sharp
instrument poised ready to poke my eye out. (OK so not everyone wears
Dame Edna glasses - but my trepidation exists regardless of the style of
frame).
cheers
rde
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 19:27:54 -0800
From: "Linda A." <tangaux02@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Oooooh, I shouldn't, SHOULDN'T rise to the bait
but I can't help it:
So Rich, if you were a Spanish teacher, would you
fail the Argentines for using lunfardo? ;-P I
mean, consistency here!
But seriously, I don't see that much difference,
maybe because I have a passing familiarity with
rap/hip-hop and the culture behind it. I
disagree with a lot of the ideas that are upheld,
but I will say this: there is plenty of poetry to
be found if you know where to look.
The way I see it, both the compadritos of
yesteryear and the hip-hop kids of today describe
their everyday lives using an argot
that has a lot of color. (OK, four-letter words
are NOT color, but I'm referring more to the
general slang that grew out of hip-hop.)
But no matter. Like Dani said, to each his own.
I don't pretend to understand opera, although I
love classical music.
Okay, off my non-tango soapbox. :)
Cheers,
Linda
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 11:45:52 -0500
From: Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
And as a woman you approve of the brutal misogyny of rap?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wed, 7 Dec 2005 19:27:54 -0800
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Oooooh, I shouldn't, SHOULDN'T rise to the bait
but I can't help it:
So Rich, if you were a Spanish teacher, would you
fail the Argentines for using lunfardo? ;-P I
mean, consistency here!
But seriously, I don't see that much difference,
maybe because I have a passing familiarity with
rap/hip-hop and the culture behind it. I
disagree with a lot of the ideas that are upheld,
but I will say this: there is plenty of poetry to
be found if you know where to look.
The way I see it, both the compadritos of
yesteryear and the hip-hop kids of today describe
their everyday lives using an argot
that has a lot of color. (OK, four-letter words
are NOT color, but I'm referring more to the
general slang that grew out of hip-hop.)
But no matter. Like Dani said, to each his own.
I don't pretend to understand opera, although I
love classical music.
Okay, off my non-tango soapbox. :)
Cheers,
Linda
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 12:34:18 EST
From: Cherie Magnus <MACFroggy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
In my opinion there are three stages of American tango dancing.
The first is the eager and naïve beginner.
Then comes the full-blown “Look at me, I am a Tango Dancer.” This person
buys lots of special shoes and clothes--men black shirts, women beads, sequins
and fringe. It is the second stage folks who harken back to the tango attire
of history, when the men dressed as pimps and Mafiosi, and the women as
prostitutes and cabaret dancers. If a man is wearing black and white shoes in a
Buenos Aires milonga, I know he's a tourist. Second Stagers also try to dance every
dance at every milonga.
The third stage experienced dancer dresses conservatively and dances only
when he or she chooses to.
The beginning dancer has twenty steps, the intermediate twelve, and the
advanced dancer uses perhaps five, but those five steps are never boring.
As is often true in other fields of study, the beginning is the most fun.
Knowledge and skill are dangerous things; whereas at first we are thrilled just
to dance, later it is much more difficult to find Tango Heaven.
Clothes don't make the tango dancer.
Cherie
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 09:47:45 -0800
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Appropriate clothes + Dress and class in tango
Dear Dani and All:
Please put your thinking caps on...lol. Astrid was
trying to help the Japanese man communicate. Tango is
all about communication on all levels. When one person
literally has "no eyes" to speak with, he is working
at a serious disadvantge. Her story was great and to
the point. The point is to improve communication
between all people from all levels of society and
cultures around the world. Tango includes everyone.
That is why it is so wonderful.
PS- Lunfardo is Argentine "rap".
Derik
d.rwson@rawsonweb.com
Chere Astrid:
Alors! Ca va! Excellent story.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- Dani Iannarelli <dani@TANGO-LA-DOLCE-VITA.COM>
wrote:
> Hello, Astrid.
>
> I think its a damn shame that youve successfully
> influenced some poor
> submissive bloke into changing what he considers his
> personal style. . .
> that being to wear sunglasses.
>
> I paraphrase your quote: Sunglasses are not suited
> to tango?????!!!
> Suited to tango????? !!!!! Whats THAT all
> about???
>
> Apart from the obvious recommendation of
> smartening-up for
> milongas/practices (which I certainly subscribe to
> as I hate it when people
> turn up with jeans and trainers etc and dont make
> an effort its almost
> as bad as smelly people), people shouldnt be
> hassled about wearing what
> they want to wear and when they want to wear it. If
> he wants to wear
> sunglasses, let him. Dont interfere nor attempt to
> influence, control or
> belittle. Mind your own business (Im not being
> aggressive to you, by the
> way just matter-of-fact and logical). Anyway, it
> didnt do Roy Orbison any
> harm! :-):-):-)
>
> Take the analogy of the hordes of mindless
> automatons who in paranoia
> subscribe to wearing whatever the so-called
> fashion happens to be at any
> particular time. Why suppress individuality, be it
> in personal dancing
> style, musical tastes, anything. . . including the
> wearing of attire
> preferred by any individual of which this issue of
> sunglasses happens to be
> one.
>
> Who is to say what is suited to tango and what is
> not?!
>
> If you want to discuss general tango cultural style,
> then its easy to see
> that it comes from a tradition of tackiness and
> indeed kitsch. Come now,
> red drapes hanging from walls with uncoordinated
> colours of lacings and
> ribbons festooned from tables and light fittings,
> yecchhy candles and Bombay
> Mix, cheap oversweet Champagne (served in cheap
> plastic glasses) the label
> of which bears no resemblance to any known genuine
> D.O.C and probably
> concocted from the cheapest cider with a blob of
> honey mixed in for good
> luck, etc etc etc the list is endless. Tango
> classy style came in when
> tango was introduced to the ballrooms of Paris and
> London in the 19-teens
> and 1920s when the men wore top hat, white tie and
> tails and the
> ladies/debutantes of the day worse the finest gowns
> from Paris and Milan.
> Yes, I know this was simultaneously the start of the
> degrading process of
> tango into the sickening ballroom rubbish of today
> because of the nature of
> real tango being too risqui for the social classes
> of the day. The rot sets
> in.
>
> Anyway, back to personal choice of attire; perhaps
> Ill go to the next
> milonga or ball wearing a balaclava . . . or isnt
> that suited to tango? ;-)
>
>
>
> Dani
>
>
>
> >We got a new man in our milonga a few months ago
> who, had I not known that
> >he was the partner of that very skillful Japanese
> dancer who always shows
> up
> >with her son at the practicas, would have made me
> think he is a Yakuza- a
> >gang member of the Japanese Mafia.
> >He was always wearing dark sunglasses and never
> took them off!
> >The second of third time he asked me to dance, I
> told him: "You know, in
> >Buenos Aires people don't wear sunglasses. This is
> not suited to tango." He
> >was very surprised and wanted to know why. "Because
> like this you can't do
> >any eye play." (I just made up that word in
> Japanese.) "Eye play??? What's
> >that?" I explained it to him (cabezeo and stuff).
> "I see !", he said, and
> >hesitatingly took them off. and shyly looked
> around. "You know, I have
> never
> >taken off my sunglasses for half a year", he said.
> Since that time, he
> >always dances without glasses.
>
>
>
>
