5774  Aron's answers about nuevo for those who asked

Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:18:57 +0200
From: Ecsedy ?ron <aron@milonga.hu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Aron's answers about nuevo for those who asked
#1
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@mit.edu>

--Tangocherie asked:

'No, but in tradition-minded BsAs, dressing in "elegant sport" (no
jeans, shorts, cargo pants, or athletic shoes), is in respect to the
tango. Normally gentlemen wear nice slacks with a button shirt. Jackets
or tuxedos are not necessary.'

I've been to BsAs several times. For some portenos, at SOME milongas it
is still part of the tradition. For some (and there is a generational
gap there) isn't. Actually, the whole jeans/cargo pant stuff with the
suede lining ORIGINATES in BsAs, along with the Puma shoes, branded
T-shirts...this is the way (young) people dress in the streets. The only
difference is that I found a lot better designed (and a lot cheaper)
casual fashion there then anywhere in Europe.

--Vince asked:

So why do so many people make a pilgrimage to BsAs?

Because the dance is, erroneously, called Tango Argentino outside Latin
America, so people think that they can get the real stuff only there. Of
course it helps a LOT to go there, experience the continuation of the
culture that gave birth to tango, especially if you come from a very
different one, but for most people this is not the REASON why people go.

As I've said: I know what I'm saying, but tango, especially the tango we
are talking about here on a list filled with dancers not living in
Buenos Aires, is a phenomenon that is driven by people outside
Argentina. We might like the culture (I do), but we are NOT of that
culture. Nevertheless, our interest, our communities, our milongas
OUTSIDE Argentina, the teachers who visit us for our euros, dollars and
yens are those which define tango today - even inside Argentina, even if
there are still many locals learning tango. And this is not even
something new. Tango itself was made by a mixture of ethnicities,
cultures within Argentina, but became mainstream by massive external
influence in the past and then revived and kept alive by massive
external influence. So what you say is just strengthening my example:
BsAs is a museum of tango. Of course it is NOT only a museum, as the
most popular dancers are still Argentines. But the part you tried to
imply very much is. But the actual 'content' of tango in general is
already changing. Even 'traditional milongueros' began to use the ideas
generated by nuevo, since nuevo is an inclusive term: using nuevo you
can describe any style of tango.


--
Ecsedy ?ron
***********
Aron ECSEDY

Tel: +36 20 66-36-006

https://www.milonga.hu/
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/


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Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 02:04:41 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Aron's answers
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>


Ecsedy you say "Because the dance is, erroneously, called Tango Argentino outside LatinAmerica, "

1 - *** No error there (IMO) Tango Argentino is different from the other styles that were created outside of Argentina (Uruguay) (Ballroom tango,
(A variation of International tango), International (European) Tango and Finish Tango (a variation of International Tango as well). So it is necessary to say Argentine Tango to know what we are talking about. For most people to say Tango is enough, as we know that Tango is Argentine Tango.

2 - *** What is danced outside of Argentina as "Argentine Tango" reflects the "real A. Tango" as taught abroad by both Argentines and foreign instructors.
A tango style that is preserved by the travelers to Argentina as well.

Ecsedy you also say "As I've said: I know what I'm saying, but tango, especially the tango weare talking about here on a list filled with dancers not living inBuenos Aires, is a phenomenon that is driven by people outsideArgentina."

*** Not true, everything that is happening in tango abroad is more or less a reflection of what is happening in Argentina, driven by the many visitors to all sort of workshops in B.A. and by the Itinerant or local Argentine instructors.

Even the most popular styles of A.T. are due to the fact that Argentine Instructors travel teaching those particular styles. Tete, Susana Miller, Cacho Dante: Milonguero Style, Chicho, Gustavo, Fabian and many others: Nuevo Tango, all the others: Traditional Argentine tango. As you also say,"the teachers who visit us for our euros, dollars andyens are those which define tango today "

*** yes no doubt but they reflect some of the different styles that are danced in B.A.

You proceed "Tango itself was made by a mixture of ethnicities,cultures within Argentina, but became mainstream by massive externalinfluence in the past and then revived and kept alive by massiveexternal influence."

*** Tango was born in Argentina, taken to Europe and the USA by Argentines that taught what was being danced in B.A.

***Tango was popular in Argentina at the same time as ballroom dancing was popular in the USA. There were as many big Orquestas tipicas as big band in the USA. Then in the 60s. and 70s. both modalities of dancing became less popular to revive in the 80s.

The fact that Tango as well as ballroom dancing became popular as well in Europe is a plus but I doubt that Tango, Swing, rumba, etc, are kept alive only due to external influences. As Deidre Black explained very well tango reflects our way of living as well as jazz reflects the North American culture.

You also say "BsAs is a museum of tango"

Nothing more apart from the truth, B.A. likes to preserve the Traditional Tango style as a valuable cultural object. Idea reinforced by UNESCO'S RECENT SELECTION. But is a cauldron of creation and experimentation as well.

This gives as result many innovations that are taken abroad both by Argentines and visitors.

"using nuevo youcan describe any style of tango."

*** Nuevo is a different style of A. Tango it does not describe Traditional or Milonguero styles for instance, as they are different in embrace, technique,and choreography.

Best regards, Sergio

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Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:26:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: dierdre black <dblioness2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] aron's answers

As stated before, tango dancing is always evolving in BA(rather than being a "museum" piece)as it does in all the world and since most(not all)of the best teachers, teaching in or outside of Rio de la Plata,
are still of Argentinian/Uruguayan extraction AND traveling the wide world, spreading "the gospel of tango", most of the year, they can get a little disconnected from Mi BA Querido.? Nonetheless, almost all still maintain a residence, year-round, in the Rio Plata area, to which they make their personal, bi or yearly, spring/summer pilgrimages, to "drink from the fuentes del tango" and recharge their ba batteries, for another year of teaching tango dancing "outside the zone".? I have no doubt that many tango dancers, from all over the world are maybe better, technically and creatively than your average milonguero, since they study it, obsessively, every day, in a "hothouse" environment with these fabulous teachers.....like a lovely orchid, in a greenhouse, somewhere. But even these maestros need some serious BA milonga time, regularly.

What makes the dancing, here, so special, is that it IS just a normal part of your average, Joe Schmo's BA day....often ducking into a milonga just because he happened to be caught in the rain on that street and had a couple of hours to kill...no more, no less. Nothing exotic......
.......just organic. The tango serves a cultural function, here, now, as always. A dance of the streets, for all the classes, to forget/express their troubles, for a few tandas...and enjoy some good wine/company and life, for a moment, before returning to "reality".

It's wonderful to have all the other more exotic bloodstreams of world tango feeding back into this delta full of brilliant, sophisticated
teachers, who bring that new blood home to BA, revivifying it, again and
again!?But these are the cities(BA/Montevideo)that give us the profound cultural context from which all this magic refertilization/tango cycle of life, springs!! The fertile waters, soul of the Rio de la Plata.

dnb