3755  Attracting people to tango with Neotango

Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:45:48 -0600
From: Ron Weigel <tango.society@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Attracting people to tango with Neotango

> There is a certain group of people who would never learn tango if it was
> danced to traditional music, in the traditional ways. They would probably
> go
> and learn salsa or swing. The new quasi-tango genre (call it the way you
> want) is bringing some of these people in to learn something which is -
> essentially - a form of tango, using very similar technique even though a
> very different style.
>
> Just think about it: if you feed Caló to people who grew up on pop music,
> most of them will run away. If you give them Gotan Project, they might get
> interested. If you give them their favourite hit, they might even start
> dancing right there. Maybe it takes them several years and maybe they never
> get to be a purist, but they will start to listen to old tango as well with
> time. As for the style: they will also get old, when they won't have the
> energy or the need to be hot and fast. But I think if they spend enough
> time
> with this dance, they'll learn to dance simple steps in close embrace at
> some point.

I'm not so sure neotango music will attract people to tango who will
eventually appreciate traditional tango. A few might. My experience
has been that many people attracted to the 'neotango' scene don't
relate to traditional tango, either as a dance, or to the music. The
rhythms of neotango music are mostly very dissimilar from traditional
tango. They just find another 'dance' that has borrowed the rhythms
they are already dancing to in other locales. Adding a bandoneon to
club-beat music does not transform it into tango. Dancing in a manner
that emphasizes partner connection and subtle musical interpretation
over flashy steps is a hard sell for those attracted to neotango.

If you take a traditional milonga and add a significant dose of
neotango you are going to lose some traditional style dancers
(particularly if they have choices as to where to dance). The neotango
dancers are also more likely to use more space and become navigational
hazards, further driving away traditional dancers. Depending on the
size of the floor, it takes about 10-20 couples on the floor with good
navigational skills to create a nice communal dance atmosphere, but it
takes only 1 or 2 reckless navigators to ruin that amosphere.

Large tango communities can afford to have separate venues for
traditional tango and Neo.

So, overall, I think attracting people to tango with neotango is more
likely to be disruptive than helpful, unless you want a neotango
community (i.e., you want to redefine tango in your town).

Ron

Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 18:21:51 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Attracting people to tango with Neotango

"The rhythms of neotango music are mostly very dissimilar from traditional
tango."

Yep. This is the crux of the problem with nuevo, since steps reflect
rhythm structure. The structure is very distinct in traditional
tangos, hence the steps in traditional tango are different too.
Switching to different rhythms, changing steps can require significant
mental adjustment.

--
Oleh Kovalchuke
https://TangoSpring.com


On 8/30/05, Ron Weigel <tango.society@gmail.com> wrote:

> > There is a certain group of people who would never learn tango if it was
> > danced to traditional music, in the traditional ways. They would probably
> > go
> > and learn salsa or swing. The new quasi-tango genre (call it the way you
> > want) is bringing some of these people in to learn something which is -
> > essentially - a form of tango, using very similar technique even though a
> > very different style.
> >
> > Just think about it: if you feed Caló to people who grew up on pop music,
> > most of them will run away. If you give them Gotan Project, they might get
> > interested. If you give them their favourite hit, they might even start
> > dancing right there. Maybe it takes them several years and maybe they never
> > get to be a purist, but they will start to listen to old tango as well with
> > time. As for the style: they will also get old, when they won't have the
> > energy or the need to be hot and fast. But I think if they spend enough
> > time
> > with this dance, they'll learn to dance simple steps in close embrace at
> > some point.
>
> I'm not so sure neotango music will attract people to tango who will
> eventually appreciate traditional tango. A few might. My experience
> has been that many people attracted to the 'neotango' scene don't
> relate to traditional tango, either as a dance, or to the music. The
> rhythms of neotango music are mostly very dissimilar from traditional
> tango. They just find another 'dance' that has borrowed the rhythms
> they are already dancing to in other locales. Adding a bandoneon to
> club-beat music does not transform it into tango. Dancing in a manner
> that emphasizes partner connection and subtle musical interpretation
> over flashy steps is a hard sell for those attracted to neotango.
>
> If you take a traditional milonga and add a significant dose of
> neotango you are going to lose some traditional style dancers
> (particularly if they have choices as to where to dance). The neotango
> dancers are also more likely to use more space and become navigational
> hazards, further driving away traditional dancers. Depending on the
> size of the floor, it takes about 10-20 couples on the floor with good
> navigational skills to create a nice communal dance atmosphere, but it
> takes only 1 or 2 reckless navigators to ruin that amosphere.
>
> Large tango communities can afford to have separate venues for
> traditional tango and Neo.
>
> So, overall, I think attracting people to tango with neotango is more
> likely to be disruptive than helpful, unless you want a neotango
> community (i.e., you want to redefine tango in your town).
>
> Ron
>

Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 01:39:09 -0600
From: Ron Weigel <tango.society@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Attracting people to tango with Neotango

On 8/30/05, Áron ECSEDY <aron@milonga.hu> wrote:

> Tango has changed a lot in a 100 years, and it will (it must) continue to
> change. If it stops changing that means it is canonized, petrified and
> officialy dead, a style which can only be meticulously copied.
>
> What's it gonna be then? On one hand everyone is sinking ten fingers into
> the idea of keeping tango free, without syllabus, without prescribed
> styles,
> without cooperative organizations...on the other hand the same people are
> promoting that the styles should be kept the way they are (were 50 years
> ago), nothing modern should be allowed, tradition is king.

Tango has evolved over its history, both as a style of dance and as a
musical art form. The peak period of dancing was in the 30s and 40s,
and the music of that era reflects it. Piazzolla didn't kill tango as
a dance - it was already receding when he turned nuevo. Tango dancing
has evolved in that most dancers don't use cortes and quebradas off
stage, and canyengue is essentially history. However, modern social
tango styles have their roots in the social dance styles of the Golden
Age. Why? Because music and dance were well coordinated in that era
and it would be difficult to improve on that.

A similar relationship between dance and music has occurred in the
relationship between jazz and swing. Swing arose because jazz rhythms
of the 30s were danceable. When bebop came around in the 40s, people
didn't dance to it, but the swing rhythms survived in the big bands.
Swing dancing even survived the death of big bands in the 50s because
it was able to shift to rock and roll. In the swing revival of the
late 90s, the new swing groups mostly recreated the big band sounds of
the 40s or jump blues bands of the 50s. It was music people could
dance to easily. As far as I can tell (and I'm no expert on this), the
swing danced in the 90s is very close to the swing danced in the 40s
and 50s.

Folk dances don't change much and neither does the music. In America
we have square dancing, which uses the same music and same dance forms
as 150 years ago. In some parts of the US it is very popular. The same
is probably true of many European folk dances, isn't it? There's
nothing wrong with folk dances not changing.

Tango is an urban folk dance that has gained worldwide popularity.
Swing is also an urban folk dance with worldwide popularity. (A folk
dance arises from the culture of the people; it is not a creation of
an academy or a marketing ploy.)

Perhaps some new style of tango music will evolve to which it will
still be possible to dance traditional tango with the same traditional
tango feeling (as rock and roll replaced jazz as the predominant swing
dance music). So far this has not happened to any great extent.
Neotango is mainly a fusion of different musical genres, mostly
club-beat rhythm or trance music with some tango instrumentation. It
is a legitimate musical genre (and I actually enjoy listening to a lot
of it, but I won't dance tango to it). It should probably be given a
different name, without 'tango' in it. Jazz was born from a fusion of
African rhythms with marching brass band instrumentation. However,
it's called 'jazz' and no one confuses it with Sousa.

Ron

Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 01:10:01 -0700
From: "Richard H. Burn" <bailartangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Attracting people to tango with Neotango

I've been to many alternative milongas.
Where little or no old traditional tango music is played.
I've seen different styles dance: nueveo, open, close/milongeuero, apilado..
Everyone seems to have a great time, good energy, etc.
At festivals, I see the same people dancing, well, later that evening @ classic milongas.

Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:51:15 -0600
From: Dave Schmitz <dschmitz@MAGELLAN.TEQ.STORTEK.COM>
Subject: Folk dances, was Re: [TANGO-L] Attracting people to tango with Neotango

Ron,

Okay, this is a response to a nearly 3-week-old email,
a nicely written one at that. Thank you for it.
Please be patient with my late reply.

> From owner-tango-l@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Wed Aug 31 01:39 MDT 2005
> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 01:39:09 -0600
> From: Ron Weigel <tango.society@GMAIL.COM>
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Attracting people to tango with Neotango

> Folk dances don't change much and neither does the music.

<snip>

> The same
> is probably true of many European folk dances, isn't it?

The village of Szek in Translyvania is well-known amongst those of us
who study the dances of Hungarians. (Szek is the Hungarian name,
Sic the Romanian, for a village which is mostly ethnic Hungarian.)

The music and dances of this village have been studied for decades,
including by Gyorgy Martin, Laszlo Lajtha, and others. It was the
music and songs of this region which inspired the band Muzsikas
and singer Marta Sebestyen, whose work was featured in the films
"Music Box" and "The English Patient".

When I first learned these dances, we were taught (to use tango
terms) to use a certain embrace, when dancing a simple figure,
in simple terms walking around each other.

Roughly speaking, we held each other's (outside) elbows.

I'm sure my teachers were using information based on research
from the 1970s.

By a couple decades later, the embrace in the village had changed.

Why?

Because they started to starch their shirts & blouses, and there
was no way to hold the other's elbow, when the clothing was
stiff as a board.


Folk dances evolve.


Dave de Denver