3437 Ballroom dancing - jerky tango head movements
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:30:54 +0200
From: Ecsedy Áron <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Ballroom dancing - jerky tango head movements
Dear Nicole,
> school of dance, not necessarily what has developed in social
> dance - like swings styles and latin styles - is that
> Ballroom was developed by the English, not the Americans.
> There's actually an British dancer, who's name I can't recall
> right now, who was the first to develop a "Ballroom Dance
> Syllabus". Apparently he travelled around the world
> examining different dance styles from various cultures to
> create the Ballroom dances (which all roots come from some
> other place than England obviously). And if you examine the
> dances themselves, you will see combinations of traditional
> dance styles...for example ballroom samba "steps" are a
> combination of various Brazilian dance forms. One of the
> first well-known Ballroom teams, who helped to bring Ballroom
> to the rest of the world, were the Castles, were from
> England. I know they were around in the 1910's. So the
> British form of Ballroom dancing was developed in the early
> 1900's, and became a regular part of British culture by the
> 1920's-30's. The American form started to take hold about
> this time, in the 1930's, specifically with people like
> Arthur Murray who helped to popularize it.
You are right in that standardization was done by the English. However, the
dances themselves were not invented by the English. See short history:
https://www.dancerite.co.uk/Ballrom_dancing.htm (NB: it has a reference to
the invention of jerky tango head-movements in the 1930s)
The first standardizations had been done by the Imperial Society of Teachers
of Dancing (https://www.istd.org/) in the early 1920s. There was also NATD
(https://www.natd.org.uk/), which contributed to many things now part of
ballroom dancing (such as the medal system).
The guy you were referring to is Alex Moore, who was active from the late
1920s.
Cheers,
Aron
Ecsedy Áron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
ICQ# 46386265
https://www.milonga.hu/
"Follow those who seek the truth.
Run from those who claim to have found it."
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 16:57:00 +0200
From: Fulano de tal <campanero@SHINYFEET.COM>
Subject: Re: Ballroom dancing - jerky tango head movements
The ballroom dances were definitely invented by the English. The dances
were somewhat based on the original social dances created by other
cultures, but it's very important to remember that the "ballroom" dances
are not the same as the "social" dances. In some cases like the Samba or
Rumba, the social (authentic) dances bear small resemblance to the
"ballroom" dances.
Ecsedy Áron said:
> Dear Nicole,
>
>> school of dance, not necessarily what has developed in social
>> dance - like swings styles and latin styles - is that
>> Ballroom was developed by the English, not the Americans.
>> There's actually an British dancer, who's name I can't recall
>> right now, who was the first to develop a "Ballroom Dance
>> Syllabus". Apparently he travelled around the world
>> examining different dance styles from various cultures to
>> create the Ballroom dances (which all roots come from some
>> other place than England obviously). And if you examine the
>> dances themselves, you will see combinations of traditional
>> dance styles...for example ballroom samba "steps" are a
>> combination of various Brazilian dance forms. One of the
>> first well-known Ballroom teams, who helped to bring Ballroom
>> to the rest of the world, were the Castles, were from
>> England. I know they were around in the 1910's. So the
>> British form of Ballroom dancing was developed in the early
>> 1900's, and became a regular part of British culture by the
>> 1920's-30's. The American form started to take hold about
>> this time, in the 1930's, specifically with people like
>> Arthur Murray who helped to popularize it.
>
> You are right in that standardization was done by the English. However,
> the
> dances themselves were not invented by the English. See short history:
> https://www.dancerite.co.uk/Ballrom_dancing.htm (NB: it has a reference to
> the invention of jerky tango head-movements in the 1930s)
>
> The first standardizations had been done by the Imperial Society of
> Teachers
> of Dancing (https://www.istd.org/) in the early 1920s. There was also NATD
> (https://www.natd.org.uk/), which contributed to many things now part of
> ballroom dancing (such as the medal system).
>
> The guy you were referring to is Alex Moore, who was active from the late
> 1920s.
>
> Cheers,
> Aron
>
>
> Ecsedy Áron
> ***********
> Aron ECSEDY
>
> Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
> ICQ# 46386265
> https://www.milonga.hu/
>
> "Follow those who seek the truth.
> Run from those who claim to have found it."
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 12:47:47 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ballroom dancing - jerky tango head movements
A curriculum is used everytime a teacher starts presenting classes.
Standardization happens everywhere you have a dance school with a
teaching staff and students.
Ballroom standardization owes its dominance to the British & American
Ballroom Associations, but in the US it is maintained through the
marketing power of the chain studios. If the British academy started
in the 1920s, the US couldn't have been much later.
Organic change (if that is a contrast to standardization) is
characteristic of "folk dances" i.e. dances learned on the street
rather than from a formal instruction. Even with standardization you
can't help but have some variation and change, whether intentional or
not (culture, inability, invention, contamination, etc...)
Vernon & Irene Castle brought tango back to the US from France about
1912, along with the Maxixe, and I presume a few other dances. They
were already performing couple dances on stage in 1910 before they
left for Europe. Vernon died as a pilot in WWI. See the ORIGINAL
"Story of Vernon & Irene Castle", a silent movie they made in the 1910s.
Teaching at resorts around the East Coast of the US, they were
primary drivers of the huge ballroom dance craze of the 1910s, which
included many dances such as:
- one-step
- two-step
- quick-step
- half & half (Waltz in 5/4 time)
- Not to mention all the novelty dances, named after animals.
Foxtrot came later, I guess as a simplification and standardization
from some of the dances listed above.
Wasn't the Waltz was invented in Europe? I don't know the dates that
the dance developed, but it had to be before 1900. Also the Polka.
Then we have all the scandinavian couple dances.
The rhythmically driven dances listed above had influence from
african american culture. But I'm not an expert. Probably had some
relationship to social events like Cakewalks.
The Peabody is a direct descendant of the one-step. It was
contemporary with the Lindy, and danced in the same venues by the
same people.
I'm not sure of the origin of the balboa.
Maxixe, Samba and Choro are improvisational social dances from
Brazil. Popular Samba today is very different from the Samba of the
20s-30s. Not sure if Ballroom Samba is a partial shapshot of that
vintage Samba.
I saw Choro being danced in Brazil in 1979 (well before the recent
tango craze). It looked a lot like close-embrace milonga with some
quebradas.
The Ballroom Tango undoubtedly derived from the A. Tango of 1910.
Who knows what was sanitized vs what was added. Some have suggested
that the head snap comes from the influence of the Apache, a "pimp-
beats-up-whore" show that was performed in the same Paris nightclubs
where the Castles were performing Maxixe, one-step and slapstick
skits, and others were showing tango.
Rudy Valentino does a version of tango in the early 20s silent movie,
"The Four Horseman of the Apocalypse" complete with lunges and a
knife fight in a brothel. As a dance performer in the 1910s,
Valentino would have learned the pre-standardized vintage tango,
either in Europe or as a taxi dancer in New York. His dance doesn't
look choreographed, so much as staged. The movie also features a
waltz when he dances with the young maiden in the ranch house. (As
this is a silent movie you have to watch closely to identify the
dance as a waltz).
Richard Powers, the dance historian at Stanford University, has dance
manuals from the early 20s (I believe) from Europe and Argentina that
show very similar foot patterns. So some kind of standardization was
starting to occur by teachers at that time.
On May 16, 2005, at 7:30 AM, Ecsedy Áron wrote:
> Dear Nicole,
>
>
>> ...England. I know they were around in the 1910's. So the
>> British form of Ballroom dancing was developed in the early
>> 1900's, and became a regular part of British culture by the
>> 1920's-30's. The American form started to take hold about
>> this time, in the 1930's, specifically with people like
>> Arthur Murray who helped to popularize it.
>>
>
> You are right in that standardization was done by the English.
> However, the
> dances themselves were not invented by the English. See short history:
> https://www.dancerite.co.uk/Ballrom_dancing.htm (NB: it has a
> reference to
> the invention of jerky tango head-movements in the 1930s)
>
> The first standardizations had been done by the Imperial Society of
> Teachers
> of Dancing (https://www.istd.org/) in the early 1920s. There was
> also NATD
> (https://www.natd.org.uk/), which contributed to many things now
> part of
> ballroom dancing (such as the medal system).
>
> The guy you were referring to is Alex Moore, who was active from
> the late
> 1920s.
>
> Cheers,
> Aron
>
Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 00:06:47 +0200
From: Ecsedy Áron <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: Ballroom dancing - jerky tango head movements
> Wasn't the Waltz was invented in Europe? I don't know the
> dates that the dance developed, but it had to be before 1900.
The Waltz (slow waltz) was not. It is a 3/4 derivative of a 2/4 dance called
Boston.
The Viennese Waltz although is completely European. It was first registered
in the second half of 18th century (and - of course - it was a bit different
from the version danced in 1900s or today). But the Waltz is really-really
old dance compared to most of the others. It is also good to know that in
1750-80s it was considered immoral and had very low class origins...
> Also the Polka.
Yep. That's a 'eurodance'... :)
> I'm not sure of the origin of the balboa.
It is said that it is a mix of swing dances and latin-american
rythms(dancing maybe?) - or so I've heard.
> Maxixe, Samba and Choro are improvisational social dances
> from Brazil. Popular Samba today is very different from the
> Samba of the 20s-30s. Not sure if Ballroom Samba is a partial
> shapshot of that vintage Samba.
Ballroom samba is real bastard. It is known to contain some pieces of the
Maxixe, but consists mainly of (copied) samba-like movements danced to a
Bossa Nova rythm.
> The Ballroom Tango undoubtedly derived from the A. Tango of 1910.
Of course it was. Actually it did look much more similar until the 30s, then
gradually changed to reach the form you see today somewhere in the early
60s.
> Who knows what was sanitized vs what was added. Some have
> suggested that the head snap comes from the influence of the
> Apache, a "pimp- beats-up-whore" show that was performed in
I think, John Ward's previous post cleared this up quite well.
> Richard Powers, the dance historian at Stanford University,
> has dance manuals from the early 20s (I believe) from Europe
> and Argentina that show very similar foot patterns. So some
> kind of standardization was starting to occur by teachers at
> that time.
According to what I know this is quite true: ISTD held conferences with the
exception of the WWI years all the time. (It was founded in 1904 if I
remember right) NB: standardizing social dancing was always on the agenda in
European history. In earlier times it was quite often governed by law (!) of
city governors or the royal court itself. Naturally, they always had a dance
expert to support them.
Cheers,
Aron
