2878  Bartek's article and some responses, part 1

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:40:29 -0700
From: Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA
Subject: Bartek's article and some responses, part 1

Very interesting how people think about an issue such as this and where the
discussion goes. I was trying to summarize it for myself, skipping mostly only
the personal insults.

I found a lot of interesting observations and would also play the devil's
advocate in commenting on some.

This is part 1 of 2.


BARTEK"S ARTICLE

First of all, I re-read Bartek's article and it does seem that a lot of
present and future discussion is quite pointless as it is in 'apples versus
oranges' framework. A lot of what new tango defenders do not agree with in the
article may not be directed at the new tango they are thinking of.

Ted Bartek does say explicitly that this is a buyers' guide for novice
milongueros, and he goes on in defining these as people who would respond
affirmatively to "Do you feel the music? Do you dance for the personal
enjoyment of dancing spontaneously, not doing mechanical steps? Has the music
and the feeling of tango affected you so deeply that you consider tango to be
not a dance but a way of living? Do you want your steps to come from the
feelings that arise in you because of the music? Do you want to be able to go
to a milonga and dance socially with many different partners easily and
effortlessly?"

For its intended audience, then, his description of true tango would be the
answer for them and his described new tango would seem counter-indicative in
all aspects. As Jay Rabe pointed out, new tango is that only at its more
extreme, in this article.


Here are some interesting comments and trends in the discussion:

TANGO AND AUTHENTICITY

Stephen Brown, Tom Stermitz and Sergio Vanderkier gave their thoughts on
authenticity, as earlier the connection was made between 'true' and
'authentic':

Stephen:
"The authentic forms of the dance consist of moving to the music, engaging in
rhythmic play, developing a heart-to-heart connection with our partner,
and spontaneously creating as the dance floor and our skills permit."

Tom:
"In my opinion, authenticity is really about sense of music, energy,
dynamics, feeling, how the embrace feels, sense of floor-craft, concept
of what it means to dance. [...] and it is important to learn the "authentic",
meaning "how THEY do it", before we go invent something else."

Sergio:
"Some of those characteristics are: total freedom to use the beat and the
melody, high communication between the partners, creation and improvisation.
You should (IMO) preserve authenticity so that your dancing is not
divorced from Argentine tango to the point that it looks foreign from an
Argentine point of view [...]"


THE CONNECTION

Some focused more on whether the connection is there in the same sense in new
tango as it is in true tango, and

Jay Rabe thought so:
"The trick has to do with several subtle things. First and most
important is intention, that you maintain your focus on your partner and
your connection to him/her even though potentially distracted by this
unusual step that seems to be demanding your attention. Second is that even
steps that require a "stop" of some sort, you consciously maintain if not
some subtle movement of your bodies, at least you maintain with your intent
some subtle movement of your energy. This can be as un-perceptable as your
internal visualization, or one step less subtle to being a movement of your
breathing to maintain the flow of energy through the temporarily suspended
physical movement. And third, when you do stop and start, you avoid doing it
abruptly, instead slowing down and "easing into" the stop, and again when
you resume physical movement, you move gradually, starting from zero and
moving very slowly at first, then ramping at increasing speed-slope to your
final speed of motion."

Michael Figart II didn't, and also said:
"And yes, I think that "new", or "salon", while not divorced necessarily from
the music, or even the partnership, does divorce itself from the
connection, becomes more of an athletic pursuit, more akin to ballet."

However Michael also posed a very stringent test for his theory where only one
follower who felt a true connection in new tango would be enough to demolish
his theory, and got it very quickly :-)


Gary Barnes commented on some lacking connection in true tango:
"For many people with the right teacher, close-embrace 'milonguero' style is
perfect for learning these things; but for others it requires far more balance
and body awareness than they have, and they dance unmusically and connected to
their partner only in the most banal physical sense. For many of these,
learning simple tango nuevo technique can allow them to dance with the music
and their partner."

Interestingly, despite surface appearances Ted Bartek in the article did talk
about differences in degree and of tendencies as opposed to absolute rigid
boundaries only.

In any case, it seems Bartek talked about characteristic 'true' tango and more
extreme 'new' tango, whereas Gary's comments apply to more extreme (in the
sense of being the exception rather than the rule) 'true' tango.

Part 2 follows..

Konstantin

Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:30:11 +1000
From: Gary Barnes <garybarn@OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Bartek's article and some responses, part 1

Konstantin gave an excellent summary of the discussion, including (among
other things):

> Interestingly, despite surface appearances Ted Bartek in the article did talk
> about differences in degree and of tendencies as opposed to absolute rigid
> boundaries only.
>
> In any case, it seems Bartek talked about characteristic 'true' tango and more
> extreme 'new' tango, whereas Gary's comments apply to more extreme (in the
> sense of being the exception rather than the rule) 'true' tango.

On re-reading his article, his 'true' tango definition seems to include
anything with a non-open embrace - but then attributes characteristics to it
which only very rare dancers achieve.

And his definition of 'new tango' seems to exclude what most nuevo tango
enthusiasts actually do. I would agree with his conclusion that beginners
should not do what he describes. And in fact, I would not do it. I have met
a few people who dance as he has defined 'new tango', and I don't like it. I
have also met a few people whose tango fits all of his 'new tango'
definition, except #5: they dance it in close embrace.

But in making these two definitions, he has left out the majority of what
most tango dancers do - in BsAs or anywhere else.

And there, I think, is the real problem. By turning the difficult question
of 'a tango "buyers guide" for getting what you want from tango' into a
value-laden style-and-embrace-based false dichotomy, he has mislead his
readers.

--

Gary Barnes
(somewhere in the middle between true and new)
Canberra, Australia



"more tango, more often"