2341  Beginner/intermediate Signals Crossed (was New Topic...)

Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 18:51:24 -0800
From: Ricardo Tanturi <tanturi999@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Beginner/intermediate Signals Crossed (was New Topic...)

Fransesca,

I spent some time thinking about why you should inexplicably "get
your signal crossed" in response to what you say was a good lead -
and I couldn't come up with anything. Then I tried harder to
picture the situation, and I'll venture a guess that this is one
of the 80-90% of the cases where an apparent follower's mistake
was due to a problem with the lead. I'll explain below, and
if I have it all wrong maybe one of the followers on the list or
even one of the many leaders who know more than I do can correct me.

When a leader leads a back ocho, he turns your upper body by turning
his own upper body, keeping his frame rigid. He then invites to
to step back, basically by moving forward slightly from his chest or
midsection. For you to step forward at this point you would have
to be stepping _into_ your partner, colliding with him. It would
be a little as if you were standing next to a wall and tried to step
away from it, but instead you stepped _into_ the wall, bruising
you nose. I can't imagine that you got your signals crossed to
that extent.

(Just for completeness - as the follower steps back the leader
finishes the step by continuing his forward motion to stay with her.)

I think we on the list would really have to see this happen to
be any help, but what might have happened is 1.) your leader
was trying to lead with his arms, rather than with his frame
and body and/or 2.) You are dancing too far apart to have a
good connection. Even in "open" embrace you should be fairly close
to your partner. To paraphrase the respected teacher Nito Garcia,
"You should not see daylight between the partners".

Regards, "Ricardo"

Just an afterthought - I have only a little experience following, and
maybe the followers will disagree with me. But w.r.t our discussion
about beginners dancing with "really good leaders", I think that
it is in the nature of tango (connection, body lead, etc.) that it
almost hard to make a mistake when you are dancing with a really
good leader. But good leaders are rare. Following a not-so-good
leader is difficult to impossible.

Fransesca, as with the case above, it is hard for me to imagine
that your "body gets confused" if the leader is good. I can remember
many comments like this from followers who danced with good teachers
demonstrating steps: "Dancing with her, you HAVE to cross. You just
can't do anything else." (The cases I remember most clearly are
Mariella Franganillo and Graciela Gonzales demonstrating the lead
to the cross (separate incidents). Same was true for other steps
and teachers.)

Sorry if anybody's bothered by all my lengthy posts recently. For
some reason I've been _thinking_ about tango a lot.

--- Fransesca Swynford <Swynford@MAIL.IGLIDE.NET> wrote:

> This has been a helpful topic for me. The struggle I have is that I
> will be dancing with a good lead, but my body gets confused. Last
> night, he clearly lead a rear ocho, and instead of stepping back with
> my left I stepped forward with my right. Duh! It's like the signal
> gets crossed in my brain.
>
> My instructors classify me as an "early intermediate", and I dance
> about 3 - 4 times a week. Any recommendations, suggestions, thoughts
> as to why I do this?
>
> Fransesca
> Pasadena, CA
>

Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:32:47 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Beginner/intermediate Signals Crossed (was New Topic...)

I have been wondering about Francesca's question for a while, too. Ricardo's
answer hinted at a solution (the problem must be in the connection), but did
not explain what is happening, actually.
I finally stood up and tried it myself: moving my body and "getting the
signals crossed". The answer I came up with is this:
Francesca, the part of the lead that you are picking up, is that you should
move your body into the diagonal. Meaning, left shoulder and hip back, right
shoulder forward. Now, if you only do this, it does not really matter
whether the left foot goes back or the right foot goes forward.
The problem lies in the dissociation: I believe, you are moving your body as
a whole, like a board. Dissociation means: your upper body does not move,
you twist at the waist, and only the hips and legs move. Now, if you have
your weight properly on the right foot (the weight is basically never
distributed on both feet, in my style at least), and the man leads you
(properly) into a back ocho, the signal should travel into your legs: your
shoulders stay put and only your feet start to pivot, and then move into the
ocho. Since you have your weight on the right foot, the signal actually
should reach the metatarsal of your right foot and make it turn, taking the
loose left leg with it, until your pelvis moves into a twist.
How come,your whole body is moving? Well, maybe Ricardo is right, and the
guy is leading with his arms, forcefully spinning around your upper body,
maybe thus even disconnecting you from him. The other possibility is, that
your whole body is moving rigidly in one piece, meaning, you move your
shoulders together with your hips, being unflexible in the waist, when you
pick up he lead. Then you would loose the connection, because you have moved
your shoulders.
Your chest should stay connected, while only your left hip slowly moves away
from your partner.
So,. have your connection checked. And practise those hundreds of ochos
against the wall regularly, as women are made to do when there is a lack of
men in the class (if you do it right, it hurts a little below the last ribs
of your ribcage, as those muscles are stretched into an unexpected pull.),
so that you become more flexible around the waist.
I once had a private lesson with Chiche Nun~ez, and he made me lie down on
the floor, lift my knees, put my feet on the floor, and then he pushed my
knees to the side, and finally pushed them downwards to the side with the
weight of his whole body while holding down my shoulders down on the floor.
After that, our connection improved as if by magic, my body had become
supple enough to follow him. This is a faster way of achieving a "dancer's
body", but Chiche is the only teacher I know who does that. (Other than
Adrian Galia, who starts each of his instructional flamenco videos with
first of all working on the girl's body, stretching her lower back muscles,
while she lies on the floor. )

Astrid


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