1938 Being on the beat (Was: Why I dance tango)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:37:38 -0700
From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Being on the beat (Was: Why I dance tango)
Tom wrote:
> It isn't just the beat, although thank god if they have at least that
piece!
>
> It is easy, but not inevitable, to teach almost any guy to be on the
> beat using a mix of milongas, D'Arienzo (clear, staccato rhythm),
> Fresedo (clear, steady beat), Waltzes (clear phrases and slow walking
> beat).
>
> Dancing on the music means much more than that...Tango music has
> phrasing, breath and release, dynamics and rests, just like speaking
> has commas, periods and accented syllables.
Alex replied:
Well, Tom, I agree with you but... It isn't just the beat, but it starts
with the beat. A house is not just the bricks, but without the bricks you
have no house whatsoever, no matter what else you may have. As I see it,
anyway...
Hmmm. In discussions about whether "leaders are on the beat", an important
distinction often gets lost.
You can often train a leader to be "on the beat", but if trained by itself
this actually can cause a problem in tango, because of its improvisational
nature. Many times the leader is happily "on the beat" in some step but has
not led his follower soon enough to be there with him in time. It's a
different and additional skill, in the middle of your improvisational
moment, to lead your follower to land on the beat, then "catch up" to her so
you both land together. Without this, the leader can often delude himself
that he is "right on the beat" - and he is! in HIS feet - while his follower
is left with the relatively unpleasant sensation of desperately trying to
catch up to his feeling of the beat, and very frequently being just a little
bit late. This is especially aggravating for musically talented followers.
Whenever we talk about this in our classes, the experienced women start
nodding - sometimes even applauding! The problem seems to be at its worst
in dancing milonga, perhaps because the energetically fast consistent rhythm
tends to activate the "boogie-down" solo-dancing reflex many of us grew up
with.
If you want to judge whether a leader is "on the beat", you're better
advised to watch his follower's feet, not his.
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
1(303)938-0716
https://www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 02:18:21 -0000
From: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
Brian wrote:
> Hmmm. In discussions about whether "leaders are on the beat", an
important
> distinction often gets lost.
>
> You can often train a leader to be "on the beat", but if trained by itself
> this actually can cause a problem in tango, because of its improvisational
> nature. Many times the leader is happily "on the beat" in some step but
has
> not led his follower soon enough to be there with him in time. It's a
> different and additional skill, in the middle of your improvisational
> moment, to lead your follower to land on the beat, then "catch up" to her
so
> you both land together. Without this, the leader can often delude himself
> that he is "right on the beat" - and he is! in HIS feet - while his
follower
> is left with the relatively unpleasant sensation of desperately trying to
> catch up to his feeling of the beat, and very frequently being just a
little
> bit late. This is especially aggravating for musically talented
followers.
>
> Whenever we talk about this in our classes, the experienced women start
> nodding - sometimes even applauding! The problem seems to be at its worst
> in dancing milonga, perhaps because the energetically fast consistent
rhythm
> tends to activate the "boogie-down" solo-dancing reflex many of us grew up
> with.
>
> If you want to judge whether a leader is "on the beat", you're better
> advised to watch his follower's feet, not his.
>
> All the best,
> Brian Dunn
-
Interesting point, Brian. I see what you mean. Talking off the top of my
head now, I think it depends on what is going on. For instance, I would say
that while walking, both leader and follower ought to fall on the beat, on
the same beat. When doing a figure, the leader has to fall on the beat, and
the follower may get out of the beat temporarily but conclude on a beat
while the leader stays put to give space to the follower for this to happen.
This is something I'll have to pay attention to so as to figure it out
allright.
Best, Alex.
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:16:00 -0700
From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
Alex wrote:
>>>
Talking off the top of my
head now, I think it depends on what is going on. For instance, I would say
that while walking, both leader and follower ought to fall on the beat, on
the same beat. When doing a figure, the leader has to fall on the beat, and
the follower may get out of the beat temporarily but conclude on a beat
while the leader stays put to give space to the follower for this to happen.
<<<
Alex, we may be talking about different things. I agree with you that the
leader and follower usually step together in a walk, as well as in many
figures, on the beat, in the basic walking rhythm. I also agree that the
leader may "skip a step", especially in a turn or other figure, before
landing together with his follower on a later step. In such a skipped-step
scenario, the couple just changes from parallel system to crossed system, or
vice versa, and perhaps continues walking. (The leader may also take an
extra step that the follower doesn't take, in order to change systems, but I
don't think that's your point). These extra steps may then be thought of as
"quick steps" which are not "on" the walking beat - but they nest
comfortably and accurately within the walking beats - like, say,
quarter-notes between the half-notes of the walking beat, for example.
The problem I'm describing usually happens when the leader (who has either
developed or was gifted with a basic sense of rhythm) wants to lead some
quick-steps that fall in between the basic walking-beat steps - perhaps some
tras-pie milonga rhythm, or some staccato rhythmic tango step, in a fast
tango or waltz. Unless he gives his follower enough "early notice" about
the quick-step change in the basic walking rhythm, she often can't get there
in time to land the faster step comfortably and accurately nested within the
basic walking beat that she can hear on her own. She'll TRY to do so, and if
her reflexes are blindingly fast, she'll often get there - but the overall
sensation the follower has is needing to CATCH UP to the runaway train that
the leader's sense of rhythm has turned into. And the irony is that the
leader may be fully enjoying the sensation of his OWN feet hitting the floor
exactly on the quick-step timing. In this scenario, he's having too much
fun to notice that his follower is hanging just a bit behind, because he
didn't notify her in time with an "early lead" - and she may not exactly be
fully enjoying the sensation of frequently being a little bit late despite
her best efforts.
This can also be described as the leader "dancing with the musicians"
instead of his partner.
The fix is for the leader to REALLY GET at a visceral level the difference
in "lead time" between, on the one hand, leading his OWN foot to hit the
floor at a given moment, and on the other hand, leading his follower's foot
to hit at the same moment. This is the "different and additional" skill I
was talking about. I believe that physiological signal transmission to
muscles along nerve pathways is some very fast velocity (like, way faster
than 100 miles/hr - help me out, you neurophysiologists out there!). We can
assume that most of the time signal transmission across the lead/follow
boundary is (barring telepathy) significantly slower, even though a big part
of the satisfaction in partner dancing is to make it as fast as possible!
In my experience, this means I try to focus solely on getting my follower's
feet to be rhythmic, instead of thinking only about my own. One image that
we use a lot in our classes is to think about my follower's feet as
drumsticks that I am using to "beat" the rhythm with on the floor. Once I
succeed at that, even in very fast improvisation my own feet seem to take
care of themselves.
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
1(303)938-0716
https://www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:47:05 -0700
From: Paul Akmajian & Karen Reck <paulnkaren@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
Brian Dunn: If you want to judge whether a leader is "on the beat", you're
better advised to watch his follower's feet, not his.
Alex (in London): Interesting point, Brian. I see what you mean. Talking off
the top of my head now, I think it depends on what is going on. For
instance, I would say that while walking, both leader and follower ought to
fall on the beat, on the same beat. When doing a figure, the leader has to
fall on the beat, and the follower may get out of the beat temporarily but
conclude on a beat while the leader stays put to give space to the follower
for this to happen. This is something I'll have to pay attention to so as to
figure it out allright.
During the past Labor Day Weekend in Denver, Robert Hauk and Barbara Durr
gave an amazing class, an advanced class primarily on walking - with
connection, with the music, on the beat. The man, having given the mark for
the woman take a step back, would allow his trailing foot to delay ever so
slightly as the woman moved, and then incorporate a subtle surge so as to
arrive fully in the space her foot had vacated (replace her foot) just as
she fully tranferred her weight on the next step. The idea was that both
arrive stepping on the beat together. This creates a beautiful connection
and dance.
Karen
Albuquerque, NM
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:49:03 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
If we take the approach that it is strictly up to the leader to keep the
follower on the beat, we immediately come up against a couple of big
challenges. First, the leader can indicate when it is time for the
follower to begin her step, but he has little control of when she finishes
it. Second, on some turns--those where he is pivoting on his axis--the
leader has very little control of when the follower may begin one of her
steps. Consequently, I am inclined to regard keeping the beat as a
collaborative effort. It is actually the job of the follower to step on
the beat herself, and it is the job of the leader to facilitiate her
efforts by marking her step at the proper moment. As Brian describes,
leading the follower to be on the beat requires that he give the follower
enough advance notice about what the next step will be and what, if any,
the changes in timing might be.
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:31:42 -0000
From: Alex <alejandro.delmonte@NTLWORLD.COM>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
Steve, I wouldn't have put it better, really. Great stuff. I particularly
like the idea of "collaborative effort". Just yesterday we were reviewing
turns of the follower around the leader pivoting on his axis, and my teacher
said (she's a woman) that the lady also has to co-operate when turning
around. She wasn't specifically talking about stepping on the beat etc but
the idea of collaboration is in both. Sorry, I'm digressing but I've just
made this connection.
Best, Alex in London, UK.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Being on the beat
> If we take the approach that it is strictly up to the leader to keep the
> follower on the beat, we immediately come up against a couple of big
> challenges. First, the leader can indicate when it is time for the
> follower to begin her step, but he has little control of when she finishes
> it. Second, on some turns--those where he is pivoting on his axis--the
> leader has very little control of when the follower may begin one of her
> steps. Consequently, I am inclined to regard keeping the beat as a
> collaborative effort. It is actually the job of the follower to step on
> the beat herself, and it is the job of the leader to facilitiate her
> efforts by marking her step at the proper moment. As Brian describes,
> leading the follower to be on the beat requires that he give the follower
> enough advance notice about what the next step will be and what, if any,
> the changes in timing might be.
>
> With best regards,
> Steve
>
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:34:46 -0700
From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
Karen wrote:
>>>
...The man, having given the mark for the woman take a step back, would
allow his trailing foot to delay ever so slightly as the woman moved, and
then incorporate a subtle surge so as to arrive fully in the space her foot
had vacated (replace her foot) just as she fully tranferred her weight on
the next step. The idea was that both arrive stepping on the beat together.
This creates a beautiful connection and dance.
<<<
Yes, this is the exact dynamic I'm talking about, in this case applied
specifically to the walk. More generally, it's applicable to any step the
couple may take together in time, including walks, turns and figures, even
when the leader's foot goes somewhere other than where the follower's foot
was.
Delay/surge is a nice image to express it. In teaching, you never know who's
going to get the concept from what image, so it's good to have a lot of
approaches and images to pick from, and use several in each class. The
mantra we like to use for this concept is "Let her go first, then catch up
to her." Luciana Valle likes to say, "First SHE, then WE."
Daniel Trenner used to say, "A leader hasn't earned the right to step on the
beat unless he can lead his follower to step on the beat with him."
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
1(303)938-0716
https://www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:52:31 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
Brian Dunn writes:
Brian, I'm going to mix up both your postings, hope
you don't mind.
> The problem I'm describing usually happens when the leader
> (who has either developed or was gifted with a basic sense
> of rhythm)
I think it's a mistake to blame this phenomenenon
on the leader having a gifted sense of rhythm, which is
*always* an asset, never a liability. If you ask me, the
problem simply lies in a lack of basic leading skills. If
a leader can't lead well, the follower will always feel
as though she is trying to catch up, regardless of whether
the leader is dancing on the beat or not!
> If you want to judge whether a leader is "on the beat", you're
> better advised to watch his follower's feet, not his.
This inadvertently mirrors the glaringly obnoxious
assumption often found in tango circles that somehow God
has given all women a perfect sense of rhythm, which, alas,
many men lack (they're total duffs when it comes to doing
any sort of "women's work" around the house either, if
American television commercials are to be believed).
Pure hogwash. There are just as many women running loose
out there with a poor sense of rhythm as men. Watch
a ballet class sometime at the high school or even college
level. You'll see plenty of women with gorgeous moves and
breathtaking grace who nevertheless cannot dance, even by
themselves without any partner interference, with the rhythm
of the music.
So we have at least seven possibilities that I can
think of offhand (perhaps someone can come up with even
more):
1. Both leader and follower land on the beat
because he is a good leader and she is a good
follower, and both have an excellent sense of
rhythm.
2. Both leader and follower land on the beat
because even though she has poor rhythm skills,
his sense of rhythm and lead skills are so
outstanding that he can "fool" her into landing
on the beat anyway. Note that no matter how
good this leader is, there will still be a
few women whom even *he* cannot lead on the
beat, although this is rare, and such a woman
will probably not hang around long in tango anyway.
I have run into this sort of follower in the
college environment: They are taking a dance
class just to satisfy a distribution requirement,
and otherwise probably would not be inclined
to be in the class.
3. The leader lands on the beat but the follower
doesn't because he has a good sense of rhythm
but can't lead very well. This might describe
a male musician first learning how to tango.
4. The leader lands on the beat and leads very
well, but the follower doesn't because she is
a lousy dancer who couldn't follow even if she
strapped herself to his ankles.
5. The follower lands on the beat (which according
to your test, automatically qualifies the leader
as a good one) but the leader doesn't, which
actually makes her very good and makes him mediocre
ro rather bad, but not hopeless enough to throw her
off the beat altogether.
6. Neither land on the beat, because his sense of
rhythm is so bad and so out of kilter that her
excellent sense of rhythm cannot compensate.
7. Neither land on the beat because neither have
a clue.
> In my experience, this means I try to focus solely on getting
> my follower's feet to be rhythmic, instead of thinking only
> about my own. One image that we use a lot in our classes is to
> think about my follower's feet as drumsticks that I am using to
> "beat" the rhythm with on the floor. Once I succeed at that,
> even in very fast improvisation my own feet seem to take care of
> themselves.
I have used this method as well, and it is very
effective! Of course, to be a good leader, one must
always be thinking in terms of trying to give her the
idea of doing something anyway, rather than just
thinking of what you're doing yourself.
Huck
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:28:23 -0800
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
What I learned:
We as leaders are only in the dance floor to serve the follower, she is
goddess and we are servants. We have the honor of taking her on a walk,
we navigate and protect her from accidental bumps at all costs (more on
that later), we interpret the music and suggest a direction and a step
to her. Advance followers can and often override leader's lead when
they don't like what the leader is suggesting or for playing. We can
only propose, and since she is the boss, then we have no choice but to
follow.
How can the leader step on the beat, if she is not stepping on the beat?
Our lead should be timed so that she will agree with our suggestion and
step on the beat. This of course takes some time to learn to do. We can
try to force her, but what is the point of that?
With time, we can learn to propose her to be on one rhythm, while we
dance on another i.e. she steps on the beat with the bandoneon while we
double time with the violins.
Happy dancing.
Carlos
Portland, OR
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:52:20 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
Watching the woman's feet does not tell you whether she is on the beat.
"Being ON the beat" means "completing the change of weight at the
beat". It is common enough for a woman to step on the beat but change
weight after the beat. So the key is to watch her axis, not her feet.
This is actually something you are more likely to feel, not observe.
If the woman is late in completing the weight change, she feels
heavy. In a culture where blues and jazz are common, arriving after
the beat is characteristic of the music, and therefore the way we
(N.Americans) often move.
Tango music is different. It has a surge or crescendo PRIOR to the
beat. Sometimes the Bandoneon starts a note before the emphasis.
(uh-RUMPF, uh-RUMPF).
Leading her to change weight at the beat requires "pre-leading" her
to move, just as the bandoneon pre-leads the beat. This indication to
move can be a half beat ahead.
This pre-lead is one of the special things about the tango music and
the connection between us. Sometimes the woman responds to it like
taffy, sometimes like liquid-warm honey, sometimes like a breath of
air.
How she expresses this connection is the first and most interesting
decorations of tango.
>Brian Dunn: If you want to judge whether a leader is "on the beat", you're
>better advised to watch his follower's feet, not his.
>
>Alex (in London): Interesting point, Brian. I see what you mean. Talking off
>the top of my head now, I think it depends on what is going on. For
>instance, I would say that while walking, both leader and follower ought to
>fall on the beat, on the same beat. When doing a figure, the leader has to
>...
>During the past Labor Day Weekend in Denver, Robert Hauk and Barbara Durr
>gave an amazing class, an advanced class primarily on walking - with
>connection, with the music, on the beat. The man, having given the mark for
>the woman take a step back, would allow his trailing foot to delay ever so
>slightly as the woman moved, and then incorporate a subtle surge so as to
>arrive fully in the space her foot had vacated (replace her foot) just as
>she fully tranferred her weight on the next step. The idea was that both
>arrive stepping on the beat together. This creates a beautiful connection
>and dance.
>
>Karen
>Albuquerque, NM
--
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org/
stermitz@tango.org
303-388-2560
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:21:37 -0700
From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
Tom wrote:
>>>
Watching the woman's feet does not tell you whether she is on the beat.
<<<
In my experience it's easy to tell by watching someone's foot whether they
are "on the beat". I don't think the observing skill is that hard to learn -
our students pick it up pretty fast. For most, it's easier to see it in
someone else than to lead it, at first.
>>>
"Being ON the beat" means "completing the change of weight at the
beat".
<<<
Not necessarily...
>>>
It is common enough for a woman to step on the beat but change
weight after the beat. So the key is to watch her axis, not her feet.
<<<
The particular motion they are doing often eventually involves a full weight
transfer, as you say, which is also easy to see when it happens...in which
moment their axis is over their foot, as in a common walk. I guess you
could say in that case I am also "watching her axis" as I watch her feet.
But what I'm talking about is a more general case than that. The follower's
motion may be a tras pie out-and-back "partial" step, not involving a full
weight transfer, or a very quick rocking step, which many followers are led
to do in fast rhythmic tangos. In that case, her axis will never relocate
over the foot that is moving. This kind of motion was what I was referring
to in my original message as the common case of the "problem". For me it's
also easy to see when these partial follower's-foot motions are "on the
beat" or not, even though their axis doesn't get fully transferred.
>>>
In a culture where blues and jazz are common, arriving after
the beat is characteristic of the music, and therefore the way we
(N.Americans) often move.
<<<
Hmmm...that would makes sense - but I think I speak for a lot of N. American
people whose early "dance experience" had in it a lot of straight-ahead
rock&roll and Beatles music, and very little jazz or blues per se. Not much
late-arrival or swing-induced lag time in my experience of doing the twist,
the monkey or the watusi to "Rock Around the Clock", "I Saw Her Standing
There", or "She Loves You" (although I can hear some in "Twist & Shout" or
the Door's "Light My Fire") ;>
>>>
Leading her to change weight at the beat requires "pre-leading" her
to move...
>>>
Exactly.
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
1(303)938-0716
https://www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 11:09:09 +1100
From: Gary Barnes <garybarn@OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Being on the beat
Alex wrote, among other things:
> ... I would say
> that while walking, both leader and follower ought to fall on the beat, on
> the same beat. When doing a figure, the leader has to fall on the beat, and
> the follower may get out of the beat temporarily but conclude on a beat
> while the leader stays put to give space to the follower for this to happen.
The usual caveats: I am no expert, and I certainly don't always (or even
often) achieve what I set out here as goals, but:
I think, in the followers mind and body, there should be no distinction
between 'walking' and 'doing a figure' - among other things, the dance
should always feel musical.
To help this to happen, I think it is simplest if the leader also avoids
thinking of 'figures' vs 'walking' - even if the steps he is leading can be
analysed that way, or were taught that way.
He should always be inviting the follower to take a step in a way which
allows her to complete the movement musically - which can be on the main
pulse of the music, on some other subdivision, syncopated or not, pulling or
pushing the beat, staccato or legato, as the music and the movement suggest.
As others have pointed out, it is then up to her - the leader cannot _make_
her step musically, he can only invite. And her interpretation of the music
may be different to his.
By the way, I think it is probably equally frustrating for a musical leader
to dance with an unmusical follower, as the other way round. The ideal is
that both are musical, and their connection allows them to communicate their
different feeling of the music. But probably if neither really 'hear' the
music, they can have a very happy dance together in their mutual blissful
ignorance!
May you all find the beat you are looking for
--
Gary Barnes
Canberra, Australia
"more tango, more often"
