3697 The best milonga setup -- your criteria
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 13:35:22 -0400
From: Joanne Pogros <joanneprochaska@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: The best milonga setup -- your criteria
Note: THE LAST SENTENCE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE.....
Thoughts on what I think are qualities which make for an excellent milonga set-up, in order of (IMHO) importance:
In other words, I feel that the best milongas have all the below, but if you had to choose, then I would start be requiring (IMHO) #1, then add #2, etc. because if your feet ain't happy.... ain't nobody happy!
1.) Floor surface: Floating/Sprung Wood floor
-wood-being a natural material, it gives a little underfoot, unlike tile, marble, stone or cement
-wood-enables you to pivot so you don't damage your knees
-floating/sprung installation so your feet and legs don't get tired after a full night of dancing.
2.) Temperature:
-A/C supplemented by fans in the summer so the men don't sweat from the heat
-Heat in the winter, so the ladies are not blocks of ice, sitting with coats on between dances.
3.) Size of dance floor: we dance, how would I say it, salon-close embrace-apillado, i.e., very close, so
we like the dance floor PACKED like sardines!!!, with the tables delineating the dance space so we can be seen and so that those sitting can become part of our dance experience.
4.) Music from the "golden era", (the older the better!) arranged in tandas with cortinas.
5.) Enough light in the room to use the cabaceo.
6.) If at all possible, the ambiance provided by a ballroom or restaurant which is really, really old. There is just some quality inherent in very old buildings that cannot be replicated in newer structures. Maybe it is the lingering remains of joy of the human spirit, from years gone by, that welcomes you and envelopes you. I don't quite know what it is exactly, but I know that we like it!
These are the qualities that we try to provide when we organize a milonga. It is not always possible to achieve, but we try. (Note: we aim for a smaller dance space, but we do not force the space to be "packed" because the people attending are not BsAs fanatics like we are....darn! plus, we do not have 100-300 people coming to help fill the room up, like in some other cities)
These criteria are determined by the style of tango that we choose to focus on. It may seen like a limited view, but we are being true to our hearts by trying to make sure all the elements are congruent, so as to provide a complete experience for our tango friends. We hope that we are creating a tradition here in Cleveland, Ohio, a tradition that hopefully will continue for a long time. We believe that "if you provide it..... people will come".
LAST, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, I WANT TO THANK EACH AND EVERY MILONGA ORGANIZER, WORLD-WIDE, FOR THE TIME, EFFORT AND MONEY THAT IT TAKES TO PUT ON MILONGAS. IT IS TRULY A LABOR OF LOVE AND YOU ARE PROVIDING A GREAT SERVICE TO US ALL. THANK YOU!
Joanne (Prochaska) Pogros
Cleveland, Ohio
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Mon, 15 Aug 2005 12:01:07 +0800
Subject: [TANGO-L] The best milonga setup -- your criteria
One of my most lasting impression of Buenos Aires is the
experience of attending milongas inside grand old salons,
with their wide spaces, high ceilings, chandeliers, and
historical image. As we look around our city for places
we can hold our milongas, we seldom find any space that
can meet all of our criteria.
Would the experienced dancers and travelers on this list
care to give me their recommendation for the best and most
perfect milonga setup they have visited or know about?
I don't just want the names of places --- I want to know
what quality about the milonga made the difference to you.
Was it the floor, the space layout, the seating arrangement,
the decor, the acoustic quality, the view? the presence
of a bar and servers? how important is the lighting (should
fluorescent tubes be banned)?
Also let's not mix the indoor and outdoor situations.
I know people enjoy dancing in parks and beaches, but
Mother Nature is not within our control, so I only need to
focus on the indoor criteria for now.
Kace
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 15:45:17 -0400
From: Tanguero Chino <tanguerochino@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject: Re: The best milonga setup -- your criteria
Joanne listed some very good points.
I propose two more points to consider.
First, please allow space for people to walk around the room. In many milongas, you are forced to walk on the dance floor to reach other parts of the room. I've been to at least one where walking on the dance floor is the only way to get to a group of tables and, more importantly, the washrooms. Idealy there will be some space to walk between two rows of tables around the dance floor.
To facilitate eye contact, if not the cabezeo, standing room (for men mostly) near the bar that has line of sight to the tables, where most of the ladies will be seated.
Failing all else, grouping all tables on one side of the room works quite well.
TC
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Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 02:14:35 -0700
From: peter <peterz53@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: The best milonga setup -- your criteria
Hello All,
I guess it's finally time for me to voice some of my
observations/opinions here.And this is an excellent place to start, as I
feel I'm very sensitive to the atmosphere/environment of a milonga.
Living in Portland, I feel fortunate to have danced at the beautiful
Viscount Ballroom for many years.With it's 25 foot ceilings, huge box
beams, etc. it was a very appealing space. And a very large floor which
was more than adequate for Monday nights, but VERY crowded during tango
festivals. It included seating almost all the way around, which I liked.
However it was a single row of tables against the walls. This meant
walking on the dance floor, which I think is something to be avoided at
all costs. In this respect, I strongly concur with TC. The first time I
remember this principal being put into effect was several years ago in
Denver. Between the first and second events at the Mercury Cafe, Tom
Stermitz determined very little of the length of the 'ronda' would
actually be lost by moving the tables in a few feet on one side of the
room and did so for the second event. The result was much less walking
traffic on the outside lane. Let's face it, it's hard enough keeping
track of less disciplined dancers in the next lane, etc. without having
to watch out for the unexpected moving targets of 'pedestrians'.
Admittedly, not everyone appreciated that they should be using the space
behind the tables for walking, but many did. Kudos, Tom. I would suggest
that if it is not possible to have a row of tables defining the
outside lane(no chairs on the dancing side, either!), then some sort of
barrier be in place at least 3-4 feet in front t of them..(Think the
tapes that define the lines in banks and airports.) I should also note
strongly that the pista should be defined as some regular rectangular
figure. Some of my most unpleasant dancing experiences(undanceable, in
fact, at times) were when the edge of the dance floor would disappear.
i.e. at a tables corner, there would suddenly appear a black hole. The
next boundary was some feet back to the right now. What to do? Go
straight and ignore the space on the right? Angle over and find the next
table? And what happens when we all get to the end of that line? Great
confusion trying to queue up again. Disaster. The same is true of
bringing the outside lane up against some obstruction requiring dancers
to merge with the next inside lane. One needs to know where to dance and
not have that change.I'd rather sit.
That brings us to the subject of tables. Worst choice imaginable are the
huge round ones. So much of the seating is with it's back to the dance
floor, unusable in my opinion. Any size round table will have this
disadvantage. Much better are square or rectangular tables.
Squares(30"-48" or so) can be set square to the dance floor for 3 seats,
or diagonally to accommodate 4or more. Longer tables can work well
also(6-8') with their narrow sides facing the dance floor(or lengthwise
as long as no seating is on the dance floor). Again, no chairs to be
placed on that end. It's important to leave enough space between tables
for people to access their seats from the spaces behind. Remember, we
like to keep our shoe bags, purses, etc. close. Also, larger
'aisles'(6'-10-) should be left at least every 20' or so for couples to
enter and exit the pista. The best strategy for reducing the amount of
material at the tables is to have a very generous coat check area.
Serviced(nice) or not. And not necessarily right next to the door for
safety sake.
My sense is that often the seating area suffers in relation to the dance
floor. I confess, I'm a traditionalist, seduced by the wonderful social
aspects of the milongas(maybe the afternoon ones especially) in Buenos
Aires. There, the seating seemed to be always adequate for the size of
the dance floor. Because of the cabaceo, it has to be. Your seat is
where you invite or are invited to a dance. You immediately proceed
there after a tanda(another tradition I wish was respected more here in
the US). I find no seating on the dance floor, or a line of seats
against the wall to be anathema to my sense of a great milonga.
This raises the issue of lighting, also. I find most US milongas to be
too dark to accomplish the cabaceo effectively. (Though I will admit to
owning a pair of pretty old and tired eyes---maybe others fare better.)
I'm certainly not suggesting bright fluorescents; or any fluorescents
for that matter. For the record, I was charmed by the light fixtures at
El Beso. Did anyone else notice that the shades were car and truck air
filters?(Ah, such imagination! And such a wonderfully diffused light!)
Now to the notion of hospitality. I loved being shown to a seat, which I
was expected to spend the evening in. On the 'mens side' of the dance
floor, if such existed.(As it certainly does at Lo de Celia). I love
having a server offer me 'agua con o sin gas" wine(malbec?), cerveza and
a menu of food items. There, it seemed, a milonga was so much more than
arriving and grinding out a few hours on the dance floor.
I also appreciate when the host actually 'hosts'. That is, greets the
guests warmly. If they're someone new, they introduce them to a few
people and get to know them a little. Familiar faces are easier, but
still deserve to be acknowledged.
One of my favorite milongas here in Portland has just that sort of feel.
The hostess always offers a warm acknowledgment of my arrival. The
host(and great dj) always gives me a hug and kiss. I feel truly welcome
and glad that I came, even before I've had a dance!. The space is newer
and smaller, but the tables have cloths and candles. There's always a
place to sit if I want. And there are always wonderful treats to enjoy.
Fruit, fresh baked brownies, dips. And a little wine for a very fair
price. I'm happy and wondering why I didn't get there earlier!
Ah, then there is the music and here is dangerous ground. I've already
admitted to being more of a traditionalist. I love older music. Canaro,
Lomuto, Fresedo/Ray, Firpo(listening to Parque Patricios right now),
DeMare con Irusta y Fugazot, even. The connection to that period is
important; very satisfying to me. Tango is not just moving to some
music. So I appreciate a full plate of golden age. Just like I heard in
all the milongas in Buenos Aires.
Well, this may be exhausting, but probably not exhaustive. Sure, the
floor should be clean. Not sticky or slippery. As forgiving as possible.
It's just one more piece in constructing a successful milonga.
Thanks for whatever attention you managed to give
this______________Peter Z, Portland
Kace wrote:
> One of my most lasting impression of Buenos Aires is the
> experience of attending milongas inside grand old salons,
> with their wide spaces, high ceilings, chandeliers, and
> historical image. As we look around our city for places
> we can hold our milongas, we seldom find any space that
> can meet all of our criteria.
>
> Would the experienced dancers and travelers on this list
> care to give me their recommendation for the best and most
> perfect milonga setup they have visited or know about?
>
> I don't just want the names of places --- I want to know
> what quality about the milonga made the difference to you.
> Was it the floor, the space layout, the seating arrangement,
> the decor, the acoustic quality, the view? the presence
> of a bar and servers? how important is the lighting (should
> fluorescent tubes be banned)?
>
> Also let's not mix the indoor and outdoor situations.
> I know people enjoy dancing in parks and beaches, but
> Mother Nature is not within our control, so I only need to
> focus on the indoor criteria for now.
>
> Kace
>
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 15:47:08 -0700
From: Richard LionHeartBurn <bailartangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: The best milonga setup -- your criteria
The King's personal preferences, in order of importance:
.
people
----------
5 or 6 friends i know well show up, easy to go from one partner to another,
tanda to tanda. kiss on the cheek, check-in, visit a little & dance.
2 or 3 people i don't know, ez to get to know them though.
.
music
---------
50% golden age, 1/2 of that instrumental
50% modern orchestras & a couple tandas of alt.tango
.
hall
-----
preferably cushion hardwood & plenty of space. enough for people that like to
do the lane thing & a big center for people that don't want to wait for the person
ahead of them to do move-on. remove tables if necessary to gain space if it
gets too crowded. dimmed lights to, so not lit up like a runway.
.
my .02c
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 13:38:33 +0000
From: Puglisi Tomas <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Milonga setup
Hola Kace,
Don't forget the importance of the orchestra, or of
the DJ. Good ones make you forget your suroundings,
bad ones make you contemplate them.
Lucia
