4016 'The Best Things Happen if You're Argentinean' + Obscurantism.
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 16:49:40 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: 'The Best Things Happen if You're Argentinean' + Obscurantism.
Hi Dani,
--- Dani Iannarelli <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.com>
escribis:
> In other
> words, a sesquipedalian is one who would call a
> spade a manuo-pedal excavationary implement. This is
> not me.
Well, truth be told, we all suspected that you were a
sesquipedalian.. now we are relieved...
>
> Maybe, in this way, they can
> seemingly reassure themselves (perhaps their tango
> insecurity?) by imbuing tango with some sort of
> God-given, fantastical, magical, mystical
> starry-eyed quality reserved for only tango as the
> only dance, art form, religion or indeed pudding
> course the world need know.
This quality is not limited to tango, what would you
say about
the orgiastic British girls cheering their pop idols
since the Beatles' time?
>
> As Spencer Tracy's character said in 'Inherit the
> Wind' (1960): (I paraphrase) "The Bible is a book.
> It's a good book. . . but it's not the only book!".
Right, Harry Potter competes with the Bible now...
>
> Why, oh why, is it that people seem to
> think of Argentines as the best dancers/ best
> teachers???
> There are bad Argentine teachers and dancers and
> chefs and politicians and bakers and policemen and
> drivers and singers and actors and waiters and
> mechanics and speakers and lawyers and judges . . .
> as well as good ones!
No one disputes this one. However, regarding the
Tango, Sergio explained
in one of his messages, that the Argentines lacking
dancing skills
are discouraged to dance by their society. As a person
endorsing
dissemination of knowledge, you should be aware of
Darwin's
theory (unless you happen to live in Kentucky, which
you are not)
and apply that knowledge to the barrios of Buenos
Aires.
> For example, there still exists the historical
> perception is that Italians are the best singers,
> lovers, chefs, waiters etc etc etc. (come to think
> of it actually, this is the exception . . . it's
> true >:-))))) )
Why, this reminds me of the historical perception that
the
Britishers have an stiff upper lip, and that they have
a poor opinion regarding the Continentals. Walking in
the villages of Italy, I can attest that so many times
I heard Italians singing in private...And a great
cuisine produces its own great chefs...And about
lovers...watching the sunset at Portofino will prod
even an Englishman to amourous endeavors...
Seriously now:
I consider the Argentines to be the best Argentine
Tango dancers.
The Finnish, to be the best Finnish Tango dancers.
The Viennese, to be the best Viennese Vals dancers.
The Irish, the Brazilian Samba, the list goes on...
To simplify the argument, this is a matter of Terroir,
as defined below:
--------------------
Terroir was originally a French term in wine and
coffee appreciation used to denote the special
characteristics of geography that bestowed
individuality upon the food product. It can be loosely
translated as "a sense of place" which is embodied in
certain qualities, and the sum of the effects that the
local environment has had on the manufacture of the
product.
--------------------
As a Scotsman you may very well know that Terroir is
also a term that can be very well applied to Scotch
Whisky. Why not apply it to the Tango danced in
Argentina and its dancers as well?
Cheers,
Lucia ;-)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 17:42:21 +0000
From: Dani Iannarelli <dani@TANGO-LA-DOLCE-VITA.COM>
Subject: Re: 'The Best Things Happen if You're Argentinean' + Obscurantism.
Hey!!! I AM NOT a Scotsman!!!!!
For the record . . .
I was born in Scotland of Italian parents. I have an Italian passport, although I also hold a certificate of exemption from Italian national - military - service. I regularly visit my family in Italy - a little village in the mountains between Roma and Napoli (in fact, near Cassino). My heritage is Italian, my bloodlines (both parents) are 100% Italian. my attitude is primarily/mostly [southern] Italian (with a little British influence), my culture (although raised in the UK) is primarily [southern] Italian - through genetics as well as the family/friends environmental influence, my looks are Italian, my image is Italian, and . . . I even have hairy Italian pecs .
The only contradiction in my life is that my car is Japanese, and having said all that, Japanese is probably my second-favourite culture.
Ultimately, I have always considered myself Italian first and British (NOT English) a distant second (Scottish is nowhere to be seen, frankly).
So-o-o-o-o, please PLEASE do not refer to me as Scottish . . . I'm NOT.
Wait a minute. . . after all that, I'm breathless! Okay, now, to take on your other points:
i. "orgiastic British girls cheering their pop idols" - don't you mean 'orgasmic'? 'Orgiastic' relates to orgies . Anyway, can't be bothered with all that rubbish.
ii. "Seriously now:
I consider the Argentines to be the best Argentine
Tango dancers.
The Finnish, to be the best Finnish Tango dancers.
The Viennese, to be the best Viennese Vals dancers.
The Irish, the Brazilian Samba, the list goes on..."
This is all generalisation. You cannot generalise. There was one point when people generalised and said that the Japanese are the best karate exponents. So-o-o-o what happened when Great Britain (which included in the line up my instructor of 33 years - Hamish Adam) became the first country to beat Japan in the final of the World Championships in Long Beach in 1970-something? Coutries outside of Japan now regularly win World Championships. The only thing that stays with any particular nationality is the respective culture that is integral in the history of that nationality's worldwidely disseminated 'art-form' or sport. Bottom line is that 'natural' dancers have the potential to be "the best" dancers. The world is full of natural dancers. Being Argentinean, Finnish, Viennese, Irish or Brazilian does not bestow a greater propensity to be "the best" at their respective exports.
iii. "Sergio explained
in one of his messages, that the Argentines lacking
dancing skills
are discouraged to dance by their society"
Then why is it that (certainly when I started to learn tango in BsAs 9 years ago) I did indeed find Argentine teachers who were crap - I could even tell that as a beginner. Why are they not discouraged to teach?
[Thank God at the time I found (individually/separately) both Fabian Salas and Zoraida Fontclara each with whom I took courses of private lessons - both brilliant in their own ways].
iv. "Darwin"??? What's the theory of evolution got to do with this? Evolution makes a significant impact only over many 100,000s of years! I don't think tango will be here then - or it may be only in the form of a pill like something from "Barbarella". Anyway, apparently it was a Scotsman who first put forward the theory of evolution that Darwin took up and published a hundred or so years later (anyone interested? I can give you the references).
v. "Whisky. . ." I can't stand the stuff! Fire-water!
All the best
Dani
"El Zorro de Tango" looking for a duel with "El Bandito de Tango" :-):-):-)
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 18:59:28 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: 'The Best Things Happen if You're Argentinean' + Obscurantism.
DANIEL IANNARELLI <daniel.iannarelli@btinternet.com> escribis: Hey!!! I AM NOT a Scotsman!!!!!
So-o-o-o-o, please PLEASE do not refer to me as Scottish . . . I'm NOT.
Now that I know the truth about your origins, please forgive my snide remarks about the English/Scots... I hope that you loved my comments about Italians...
ii. "Seriously now:
I consider the Argentines to be the best Argentine
Tango dancers.
The Finnish, to be the best Finnish Tango dancers.
The Viennese, to be the best Viennese Vals dancers.
The Irish, the Brazilian Samba, the list goes on..."
This is all generalisation. You cannot generalise.
I regret that you failed to discern my narrow scope generalization. You didn't believe that I meant that all the population of Finland, or of Vienna dances, do you?
Bottom line is that 'natural' dancers have the potential to be "the best" dancers. The world is full of natural dancers. Being Argentinean, Finnish, Viennese, Irish or Brazilian does not bestow a greater propensity to be "the best" at their respective exports.
You are wrong. Living in an environment that fosters a certain culture or endeavor, does.
The best Argentine dancer will not learn to dance like the best of Vienna if he/she learns the Viennese Vals in Buenos Aires.
To make myself even clearer, consider the term Center of Expertise. London (oops!) Theater is one, Bolshoi Ballet another, the Impressionists' Paris, the Secessionist Vienna another. Buenos Aires Tango yet another. Should I go on?
iii. "Sergio explained
in one of his messages, that the Argentines lacking
dancing skills
are discouraged to dance by their society"
Then why is it that (certainly when I started to learn tango in BsAs 9 years ago) I did indeed find Argentine teachers who were crap -
Shit happens, as they say. But you should take a more generalised view. Sergio is right.
iv. "Darwin"??? What's the theory of evolution got to do with this? Evolution makes a significant impact only over many 100,000s of years!
Nature unaided, yes. Human evolution is quite different. See how human society evolved in 2000 years, including the 100 years of tango evolution.
v. "Whisky. . ." I can't stand the stuff! Fire-water!
Then I assume you don't like Grappa neither.. A pity..
All the best
Dani
Same to you,
Lucia
Abrm tu cuenta aqum
Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2006 22:11:24 +0100
From: Aron ECSEDY <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: 'The Best Things Happen if You're Argentinean' + Obscurantism.
Dear Lucia,
> I consider the Argentines to be the best Argentine Tango dancers.
> The Finnish, to be the best Finnish Tango dancers.
> The Viennese, to be the best Viennese Vals dancers.
> The Irish, the Brazilian Samba, the list goes on...
Well, I sincerely doubt you ever need to go to Vienna to learn impeccable
Viennese Waltz. Frankly, the best Viennese Waltzes I've seen were danced by
Italians and taught by the English...
All the other dances you've listed are not in the focus of wide
international interest, maybe Irish Step is, but it is a stage style mostly
propagated by Flatley's shows (and nothing else).
Cheers,
Aron
