3239  Blacks and Indians in Argentina

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 13:36:56 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Blacks and Indians in Argentina

Dear Derik,

Argentina received fewer slaves than other areas of the American
continent such as Brazil, the Caribbean and the USA. This was due to the
fact that Argentina is situated in the temperate area of the world and
therefore had no plantations. The main rural activity here was Cattle
ranching at the time, mostly done by gauchos. Blacks were brought for house
work and some city jobs.

When Napoleon invaded Spain and the king Ferdinand VII run away. Buenos
Aires decided that the viceroy did not represent any king and appointed the
first Argentinean Government, which gathered an assembly to write the first
Constitution in the year 1913. This constitution forbid the slave trade and
ruled that any child born to a slave was free.
The final constitution written in 1853 destined funds to buy and free the
few slaves that were left.

Reasons Africans disappeared from Argentina are:

They were with few exceptions very poor, enrolled or were conscripted into
the army in large numbers. Many died heroically during the independence wars
and also during the wars against Paraguay and Brazil. The same happened
during the civil wars.

They were affected by epidemics such as yellow fever in 1871, as they lived
in the poor areas of the city.

It is well known that white women feel attracted to black men, they
intermarried freely as there was no great prejudice to do so. The Spaniards
and the immigrants were largely men that intermarried freely with indian and
black women.

There are very few Argentinean blacks seen today . A couple of years ago, a
black woman sued the Argentinean Government because as she was at the
airport to travel to the USA, the immigration officer called the police
saying that her Argentine passport had to be fake since she was black. the
woman clarified the problem rapidly and decided to postpone her trip. As she
was leaving the airport a nice, smiling lady asked her - "where are you
from?" -.

As to the indians that is another story that I leave for later.

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 06:07:15 -0800
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Blacks and Indians in Argentina

Dear Sergio:

Thank you for the explanation about the blacks in
Argentina. Very interesting. Makes sense.

PS- I think the few Indians which are left in the US
are mostly in Alaska and places where there were no
Indian wars. In this country in the lower 48 states,
the Indians now mostly live on reservations, which to
me seem a bit like concentration camps. They can
leave at will however, so they are free to do anything
they choose, but the Indian reservations are directly
controlled by the government in Washington D.C. After
our civil war in the 1860's , General Sherman, a
famous US general said, "It will take us ten years or
more to kill all of them.". At the time of this
quote, the total population of the US was much smaller
than it is today, so 8 or 9 million Indians gone was a
big number, and it still is even today. My quote is
not exact, but I am sure someone on this list will
find the exact quote for me, and perhaps verify the
large number if it is correct. Steve are you there?

Derik
--- Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
wrote:

> Dear Derik,
>
> Argentina received fewer slaves than
> other areas of the American
> continent such as Brazil, the Caribbean and the USA.
> This was due to the
> fact that Argentina is situated in the temperate
> area of the world and
> therefore had no plantations. The main rural
> activity here was Cattle
> ranching at the time, mostly done by gauchos. Blacks
> were brought for house
> work and some city jobs.
>
> When Napoleon invaded Spain and the king Ferdinand
> VII run away. Buenos
> Aires decided that the viceroy did not represent any
> king and appointed the
> first Argentinean Government, which gathered an
> assembly to write the first
> Constitution in the year 1913. This constitution
> forbid the slave trade and
> ruled that any child born to a slave was free.
> The final constitution written in 1853 destined
> funds to buy and free the
> few slaves that were left.
>
> Reasons Africans disappeared from Argentina are:
>
> They were with few exceptions very poor, enrolled
> or were conscripted into
> the army in large numbers. Many died heroically
> during the independence wars
> and also during the wars against Paraguay and
> Brazil. The same happened
> during the civil wars.
>
> They were affected by epidemics such as yellow fever
> in 1871, as they lived
> in the poor areas of the city.
>
> It is well known that white women feel attracted to
> black men, they
> intermarried freely as there was no great prejudice
> to do so. The Spaniards
> and the immigrants were largely men that
> intermarried freely with indian and
> black women.
>
> There are very few Argentinean blacks seen today . A
> couple of years ago, a
> black woman sued the Argentinean Government because
> as she was at the
> airport to travel to the USA, the immigration
> officer called the police
> saying that her Argentine passport had to be fake
> since she was black. the
> woman clarified the problem rapidly and decided to
> postpone her trip. As she
> was leaving the airport a nice, smiling lady asked
> her - "where are you
> from?" -.
>
> As to the indians that is another story that I leave
> for later.
>
>
> Download today - it's FREE!
>
>
>

Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 20:16:10 -0500
From: Clint Rauscher <clint@AXIALPARTNERS.COM>
Subject: Re: Blacks and Indians in Argentina

Hi Derik,

> PS- I think the few Indians which are left in the US
> are mostly in Alaska and places where there were no
> Indian wars.

The American Indian population in the 1400s was approximately 1 million.
Then disease and war took affect and the population began dropping steadily.
As you stated, after the US Civil War the government set out to remove
American Indians once and for all.. at 1900 the population was at an all
time low of about 270,000. It has risen every decade since then to the 4.5
million mark today. So, the American Indian population has actually
increased.. but of course without all the bloodshed and anti-Indian policies
of the government one would assume that the population would be much much
larger than 4.5 million at this point.

One interesting not though.. is that they used to possess (land ownership
did not exist) 100% of the land in this country.. now they possess only
about 2% of the land. If all legal treaties with American Indian nations
were honored then probably 20 to 30% of US soil would have to be returned.
But in the late 1800's, Congress repelled all treaties with American Indian
Nations.

Clint

Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2005 07:15:00 -0800
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Blacks and Indians in Argentina

Dear Clint, Thank you for the interesting information
on the Indians in the US. Glad to know that they are
coming back slowly. I wonder if the Indians in
Argentina contributed something to tango? Derik
--- TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <clint@AXIALPARTNERS.COM>
wrote:

> Hi Derik,
>
> > PS- I think the few Indians which are left in the

US

> > are mostly in Alaska and places where there were

no

> > Indian wars.
>
> The American Indian population in the 1400s was

approximately 1 million.

> Then disease and war took affect and the population

began dropping steadily.

> As you stated, after the US Civil War the government

set out to remove

> American Indians once and for all.. at 1900 the

population was at an all

> time low of about 270,000. It has risen every decade

since then to the 4.5

> million mark today. So, the American Indian

population has actually

> increased.. but of course without all the bloodshed

and anti-Indian policies

> of the government one would assume that the

population would be much much

> larger than 4.5 million at this point.
>
> One interesting not though.. is that they used to

possess (land ownership

> did not exist) 100% of the land in this country..

now they possess only

> about 2% of the land. If all legal treaties with

American Indian nations

> were honored then probably 20 to 30% of US soil

would have to be returned.

> But in the late 1800's, Congress repelled all

treaties with American Indian

> Nations.
>
> Clint
>

Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 15:18:58 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Indians in Argentina

There are very few indians left (4500) mostly Matacos in the North and
Mapuches in the South. The last Ona (a tribe from Tierra del Fuego) died not
long ago.
There are about 800.000 people of mixed blood, Spanish/indian called
mestizos. This group has been increasing due to massive migration from other
South American countries. A recent study done by the University of Buenos
Aires showed that about 56% of Argentines have genetic traces of Indian
blood. This came as a shock as most Argentines think that they are pure
Europeans.

At the time of the arrival of the first Spanish explorer(Juan Diaz de Solis
- 1536 - discoverer of the Rio de la Plata) Argentina was populated by many
indian tribes. He was killed by them.
The position of the Spanish crown was that since the indians did have a soul
they could not be enslaved. They were organized in the north in
"Encomiendas" in the Noth. This institution would give each landowner a
group or indians to do rural chores in exchange for protection and for the
salvation of their soul through christianization. An arrangement not
different from the social organization of Europe at the time.

Since Spain sent armies rather than families and most of the immigrants were
men, they intermarried freely with Indian women. Some men would desert from
boundary fortresses to live with the indians so that they could have a wife
and a family. (Same as the movie "dancing with Wolves". Martin Fierro.

South from Buenos Aires there was a line of fortresses to separate
"civilization" from "the desert".
The latter being under indian control.
Natives organized periodic invasions (Malones) of border towns with the
purpose of taking horses, cattle and white women that they could trade with
other tribes.

The army likewise sent expeditions to "pacify" the indians in Patagonia.
Result of this "Expeditions to the Desert" was that many indian men were
killed some interned in reservations, many women and children were brought
back to "civilization" to be adopted by families and properly christianized.
They were considered as "criados" . This means as part of the family but
expected to do the house chores.

The women that were not selected by any family frequently ended up working
in "Houses de China women" brothels. Indian women were called (still are)
Chinese due to their facial features resembling that nationality. In Spain
the red light districts are called "Barrio Chino".