5558 Breaking the "paso basico."
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:19:04 +0000
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
I am getting frustrated with myself at the moment as I have discovered my first nasty Tango habit.
I have found that when I am nervous my mind blanks itself of any variation in steps and defaults to the "paso basico."
The worst thing about this is that I automatically resolve on eight totally ruining flow of the dance. I really wish I never learnt the damn pattern as I am really struggling to break out of it.
The first thing I am trying to do to break this is to lead an "americana" (I believe that is what it is called when you resolve by leading a backwards ocho on your side step.) But personally I don't like to think in terms of "resolving" as I feel it creates unnecessary pauses in thought and dance.
I just want to know if anyone knows any brain washing techniques to rid me of this?
'Mash
London,UK
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 12:44 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
'Mash London,UK wrote:
> "paso basico." ... I really wish I never learnt the damn pattern
Wow. I didn't know there was still anyone in London teaching that kind of
thing.
> I just want to know if anyone knows any brain washing techniques to rid
> me of this?
The first thing to do is to switch away from the so-called teacher that
brainwashed you into it.
When choosing a replacement, look for a teacher that is primarily a social
rather than stage dancer, and who teaches inprovisation rather than
rote-learned sequences.
--
Chris
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:26:46 +0100
From: Andreas Wichter <andreas@tangokombinat.de>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hey Mash,
you are trying to combat one rote learning thing with another. Try to
just walk. A lot. As much as you can. No sidesteps or backsteps or
"figures". Weight changes are ok. Walk to the music, which is basically
what tango is about anyway.You need to get away from the "painting by
numbers" rubbish completely for it to make any sense even trying.
But it will take some time.
Regards,
Andreas
Mash wrote:
>>
I am getting frustrated with myself at the moment as I have discovered
my first nasty Tango habit.
I have found that when I am nervous my mind blanks itself of any
variation in steps and defaults to the "paso basico."
The worst thing about this is that I automatically resolve on eight
totally ruining flow of the dance. I really wish I never learnt the
damn pattern as I am really struggling to break out of it.
The first thing I am trying to do to break this is to lead an
"americana" (I believe that is what it is called when you resolve by
leading a backwards ocho on your side step.) But personally I don't
like to think in terms of "resolving" as I feel it creates unnecessary
pauses in thought and dance.
I just want to know if anyone knows any brain washing techniques to rid
me of this?
'Mash
London,UK
<<
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:35:45 +0000
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 12:44:00PM +0000, Chris, UK wrote:
> 'Mash London,UK wrote:
>
> > "paso basico." ... I really wish I never learnt the damn pattern
>
> Wow. I didn't know there was still anyone in London teaching that kind of
> thing.
>
> > I just want to know if anyone knows any brain washing techniques to rid
> > me of this?
>
> The first thing to do is to switch away from the so-called teacher that
> brainwashed you into it.
>
> When choosing a replacement, look for a teacher that is primarily a social
> rather than stage dancer, and who teaches inprovisation rather than
> rote-learned sequences.
>
> --
> Chris
This is not a reflection on my current teachers but on my first 2 months experiance of Tango a year ago.
To be honest I know noone who when starting Tango is not taught the "paso basico" in some form or another.
You fall back onto what you know the best and this basic step sequence must have been etched into my head when I first started learning. I am just wondering if anyone else has ever experianced this and how they broke out of the sequence.
'Mash
London,UK
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 08:20:55 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Mash says nobody he knows was NOT taught the 8CB w/DBS?
How strange!
I thought teachers in most places had moved to more modern methods.
Are these Argentines or non-Argentines? Stage dancers or social
dancers? Nuevo, Salon or Milonguero?
That sequence is useful for creating choreographies on stage, but gets
in the way for social dancing. At the upper level it isn't so harmful;
teachers can use it or any number of other sequences for presenting an
idea, although then it is a teaching framework, not a "basic".
Mash has noticed that his 8-count pattern is awkward, partly because
it is rote because more importantly, because the movements aren't
connected to the music. That is a huge insight.
The basic musical phrasing of tango is 4+4=8. At the beginner level,
working with 4-count pieces gives the leader smaller, simpler
sequences that allows him to "just walk", but walk on the phrase of
the music. This teaches musicality at the same time as basic steps.
Also, I've found that beginners confidence improves tremendously when
they "feel" that the movements make sense. This increases retention.
Longer sequences force the dancers into more intellectual or merely
rote relationship with dance. When the leader doesn't feel like he is
DANCING, he is more likely to quit.
On Feb 12, 2008, at 6:35 AM, 'Mash wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 12:44:00PM +0000, Chris, UK wrote:
>> 'Mash London,UK wrote:
>>
>>> "paso basico." ... I really wish I never learnt the damn pattern
>>
>> Wow. I didn't know there was still anyone in London teaching that
>> kind of
>> thing.
>> --
>> Chris
>
> This is not a reflection on my current teachers but on my first 2
> months experiance of Tango a year ago.
> To be honest I know noone who when starting Tango is not taught the
> "paso basico" in some form or another.
>
> You fall back onto what you know the best and this basic step
> sequence must have been etched into my head when I first started
> learning. I am just wondering if anyone else has ever experianced
> this and how they broke out of the sequence.
>
> 'Mash
> London,UK
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:42:44 +0100
From: Benoit de Gentile <benoit.degentile@iter.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
To: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>, tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>
Le 12/02/08 14:35, ??'Mash?? <mashdot@toshine.net> a ?crit?:
>
> You fall back onto what you know the best and this basic step sequence must
> have been etched into my head when I first started learning. I am just
> wondering if anyone else has ever experianced this and how they broke out of
> the sequence.
>
> 'Mash
Mash,
You can try to play the basic step sequence in the reverse way: when the
"standard" is ahead, go back, when it goes to the right, go to the left, you
can chose to walk on the other foot if you are used to start on the right
foot, start on the left one, you can also try to find how to switch your
steps without disturbing your partner etc.. Spend as much time to these
exercises as you spent to learn the basic steps and you will never think of
it.
I had the same difficulty and by doing all of this above, I succeeded to put
this sequence out of my head. Now, when I am lost, I only think to go ahead
to avoid blocking the milonga and the game starts again, this is my recovery
procedure.
Benoit [EU]
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:43:10 +0000
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 08:20:55AM -0700, Tom Stermitz wrote:
> Also, I've found that beginners confidence improves tremendously when
> they "feel" that the movements make sense. This increases retention.
>
> Longer sequences force the dancers into more intellectual or merely
> rote relationship with dance. When the leader doesn't feel like he is
> DANCING, he is more likely to quit.
Exactamente!
You are completely right. For someone like myself who has always danced because of how the music moves me and not because how the dance moves me makes learning tango horrendous at times. It is very rare that I just feel like I am dancing Tango, Milonga YES, that is why I love it.
The problem with Tango that I see is that for some reason there is this pressure to know how to do steps and that if you don't do the steps correctly then you let down your partner and those watching. If somone asked me what my least favourite thing to do right now is, it would be to go to a milonga. Practica, fine, perfect even as everyone is just mucking about and enjoying themselves. Milonga, no thank you it feels like I am going to a job interview.
The confidence is not so much in how many different moves I know, I don't care about that. What I care about is being able to feel the movements, feel the walk and enjoy it. I have to say I am struggling to do this and when I struggle I panic and when I panic I go into automatic. Thus the side step step cross step side.
To sum everything up, Tango has yet to become a dance for me and I am trying to find out why.
Thanks for all your comments and replies I do appreciate it.
'Mash
London,UK
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:54:35 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Milonga steps come along so quickly that you don't have time to think.
I notice that people become intuitive-impvorisational dancers more
quickly in milonga. Then the challenge is to translate that over to
tango.
A rhythmic dance in crowded conditions is one way to force that
intuitive-improvisation. When you have longer sequences on an empty
floor, you have every opportunity to complete the same-old, practiced
sequence. When you are forced to rock-step out of trouble, and change
your idea on the fly, then you are forced out of the routine.
Yes, it is more challenging. Use simpler steps. Only by challenging
your well-laid plans will you learn adaptability.
On Feb 12, 2008, at 9:43 AM, 'Mash wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 08:20:55AM -0700, Tom Stermitz wrote:
>> Also, I've found that beginners confidence improves tremendously when
>> they "feel" that the movements make sense. This increases retention.
>>
>> Longer sequences force the dancers into more intellectual or merely
>> rote relationship with dance. When the leader doesn't feel like he is
>> DANCING, he is more likely to quit.
>
> Exactamente!
>
> You are completely right. For someone like myself who has always
> danced because of how the music moves me and not because how the
> dance moves me makes learning tango horrendous at times. It is very
> rare that I just feel like I am dancing Tango, Milonga YES, that is
> why I love it.
>
> The problem with Tango that I see is that for some reason there is
> this pressure to know how to do steps and that if you don't do the
> steps correctly then you let down your partner and those watching.
> If somone asked me what my least favourite thing to do right now is,
> it would be to go to a milonga. Practica, fine, perfect even as
> everyone is just mucking about and enjoying themselves. Milonga, no
> thank you it feels like I am going to a job interview.
> ...
> To sum everything up, Tango has yet to become a dance for me and I
> am trying to find out why.
> ...
> 'Mash
> London,UK
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:02:42 -0500
From: buffmilonguera@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I had found something like that too in my lead - but I would go to a
cross when I couldn't think of anything to do......then I went to a
milonga and just challenged my self to leave crosses completely out of
my dance that night. It forced me to be more mindful - I felt a lot
better throughout the dancing, received alot of good feedback from the
followers I danced with (actually, one of them was very pushy about
getting her turn to dance with me :) ), and another lead, a man,
noticing i was doing something different, watched me all night to
figure out exactly what I was doing :)
Have you joined the Buffalo Argentine Tango Society Yahoo! group yet?
It's easy, and the best way to make sure you know what we're doing and
what's going on with the Argentine tango in and around Buffalo......go
Society > follow the directions to join BATS_tango. Thanks!
-----Original Message-----
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 01:20:54 -0500
From: "Bruno Afonso" <bafonso@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
To: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<4f5d14730802122220w11a36fe0p490819ea61a2c2df@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Mario,
On 2/12/08, Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the refreshing honesty, Mash...'going to a job interview'..lol
It's definitely more formal. But that challenges you to dance better.
I'd say that at milongas I mainly dance with dancers I know and
willing to put up with my inexperience :)
> I've just spent the past month wondering why the slow Tango is soooo difficult
> and has this ability to be posed and marched thru instead of danced.
There's a couple of reasons why slow tango is harder:
1) Requires better balance
2) Requires better musical interpretation to be actually danced.
> The only thing that I've come up with is that I've heard in BsAs the Milongueros
> only dance when their song and their orchestra is played. That they choose to
> dance only to their favorite songs, the one's that move them, and they know every note.
That's fine. But that only means they will never expand their ability
to learn to enjoy other tangos :)
> Recently, I've been waiting for Tangos to be played with a strong, driving beat,
> before I will dance. This has worked well enough that I was strongly complimented
> by the follow after what may have been my best tango. The beat was strong and
> I didn't mind dancing slow to it and pausing when there was a pause.
> There is a lot of Tango out there with a fugitive beat that comes and goes, and
> what seems like moments with nothing happening..
> no wonder one needs steps,there.
Strong, driving beats are the more danceable tangos and easier ones to
start dancing to. It's all good but I find it's much more interesting
to actually be able to interpret and dance to slower and highly
musically interesting tangos. For example, there's parts of
Piazzolla's Maria de Buenos de Aires Operetta that are exquisite to
dance to. Not everyone's cup of tea I'm sure :)
The coming and going of beats allows for actually styling your dance
to the mood of the music. That's actually what is interesting about
it. You can imagine it as a bandoneon "expanding and contracting" and
imprinting that to your dance.
b
--
Bruno Afonso
https://brunoafonso.com (personal, mostly portuguese)
https://openwetware.org/wiki/User:BrunoAfonso (Professional, english)
