1904 Changing partners
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:02:39 -0700
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Changing partners
Bandito, your recent comments on this subject are an
embarrassment to the List. I used to recommend the
List to people who were not subscribed to it. I've
stopped doing so, because of people like you. If I
were your wife, I'd be ashamed to be seen in public
with you. If you have any shred of decency left, I'd
stifle myself from now on.
Luda
=====
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:51:55 EDT
From: Mallpasso@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Changing partners
What are you talking about? I never made any comments about changing
partners.
El Bandito de Tango
In a message dated 10/16/2003 16:03:26 Pacific Daylight Time,
luda_r1@YAHOO.COM writes:
Bandito, your recent comments on this subject are an
embarrassment to the List. I used to recommend the
List to people who were not subscribed to it. I've
stopped doing so, because of people like you. If I
were your wife, I'd be ashamed to be seen in public
with you. If you have any shred of decency left, I'd
stifle myself from now on.
Luda
=====
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:13:14 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Changing Partners
Two contexts of this subject I'd like to speak to.
There has been some discussion (don't remember if it was on this list or in
a class I took somewhere) about the "set" a dancer will take after doing a
tanda or two. Both leaders and followers will naturally accomodate the
idiosyncrasies of their partner, their skill level, their responsiveness,
the balance/axis point of their particular body, how much does the leader
rotate his shoulders when he leads a back ocho, does he lead the cross, etc.
etc. It always takes a song or two to discover who this is you're dancing
with and to adjust your style to make these 3 minutes maximally enjoyable
for both of you. Especially if you do a second tanda, that effort of
accomodation now creates a habit, albeit short-term, of how you dance. That
is the "set" that you take to your next partner, and again it will take a
song or two to mesh with your new partner, and so on. So this is just one of
the things that we deal with as tangueros.
Regarding "changing partners while still wet" ...
As a leader, I always avoid dancing with a tanguera who's coming off the
floor slightly flushed, with a giddy half-smile, perhaps staring into the
distance, because I know she's just had an exquisite moment that I don't
even want to try to match. A tough act to follow, as they say. It's also
sort of an intrusion. Better to let her savor the feeling a little longer.
I'll wait at least till she cools off a bit and starts focusing her eyes.
:-)
J
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:46:42 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Changing Partners
Jay Rabe wrote:
As a leader, I always avoid dancing with a tanguera who's coming off the
floor slightly flushed, with a giddy half-smile, perhaps staring into the
distance, because I know she's just had an exquisite moment that I don't
even want to try to match.
On the other hand, I try to avoid dancing with a woman who has just
finished dancing with someone who has thrown her around because my
experience tells me she is less likely to have a good sense of balance.
Our dance experience together will be compromised by the residue of the
person who has thrown her around.
With best regards,
Steve
Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:48:01 -0400
From: Tanguero Chino <tanguerochino@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject: Re: Changing Partners
Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG> wrote:
>
>On the other hand, I try to avoid dancing with a woman who has just
>finished dancing with someone who has thrown her around because my
>experience tells me she is less likely to have a good sense of balance.
>Our dance experience together will be compromised by the residue of the
>person who has thrown her around.
>
If the music calls and she is available and willing, why not? There are ways to put your partner in the right frame of mind.
For one, I would slow things down. I would take extra time to do all the thing that I always do anyway before the first step is taken. By that I mean extra time getting into the embrace: extra time adjusting the embrace so that both are comfortable, extra time just staying in the embrace without doing anything else, extra time synchronizing the weight shift. If the music is that good, this should relax her enough to reduce the effect of the previous dances. It will also help her concentrate on YOU and on the music.
To help things further, I would start off with simple steps, and taking extra (or longer) pauses. May be even taking only one step every twoo beats.
I guess the most important thing for the leader in this situation is to be relaxed himself. Our feelings will always be transmitted through our dancing, and one cannot make his partner relax if one is uptight.
T.C.
Comprehensive protection for your entire computer. Get your free trial today!
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:12:38 -0600
From: Lynne Butler <lynneoaks@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: changing partners
Okay, so Jay Rabe won't ask a woman if he can see she's just had a great
dance. And Stephen Brown won't ask her if she's just had a poor dance. Is
there a secret to looking "just right" walking off the floor?
Fondly, Goldilocks (Lynne, SLC)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:03:48 -0700
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: changing partners
Just be yourself, it is up to the leader to make you happy and make you
feel good.
I view it as: if she had a bad experience with the guy before me, then
is an opportunity to make her feel better.
If she had a great dance (as if she just danced with Alex Krebs or
Robert Hauk), then is a challenge to match them (one day I hope).
Carlos Rojas
Portland, OR
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:13 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] changing partners
Okay, so Jay Rabe won't ask a woman if he can see she's just had a great
dance. And Stephen Brown won't ask her if she's just had a poor dance.
Is
there a secret to looking "just right" walking off the floor?
Fondly, Goldilocks (Lynne, SLC)
LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 17:22:32 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: changing partners
Lynne Butler wrote:
>Okay, so Jay Rabe won't ask a woman if he can see she's just had a
>great dance. And Stephen Brown won't ask her if she's just had a
>poor dance. Is there a secret to looking "just right" walking off
>the floor?
Is this a question for Marilyn vos Savant?
;-) ;-) ;-)
Of course, some/many/most men may not have such silly rules, and
some/many/most women may have just concluded dancing with a man who is
neither great or terrible. The adjectives vary by venue. In such cases,
the advice Carlos Rojas offered is quite appropriate, "Just be yourself."
But let's suppose that all the men are divided equally among great and
terrible dancers, and that half of the men adopt Jay's silly rule while
the other half adopt my silly rule. A woman just coming off the dance
floor would be a candidate to dance with half the men at the milonga. If
the men use no other rules other than ones that Jay and I espoused, the
women who are sitting would be candidates to dance with all the men at the
milonga.
If the men are able to make an independent judgement about the quality of
the dance experience the woman just had, it will not matter what look she
has, so being yourself will work fine. If the men are only able to assess
the quality of the woman's dance experience on the basis of her look
coming off the dance floor, the woman must assess whether there is any
postive or negative correlation between the men's tastes and their dance
skills. Who is more willing to follow a great dancer, a terrible dancer
or another great dancer? Who is more willing to follow a terrible dancer,
a great dancer or another terrible dancer?
If the woman thinks great dancers are more willing to follow terrible
dancers, she will want to give the appearance that she just danced with
someone terrible. If the woman thinks that great dancers are more willing
to follow great dancers, she will want to give the appearance of having
just danced with someone great. In fact, a woman friend of mine once
returned from Buenos Aires, and told everyone that the last person she
danced with in Buenos Aires was Pablo Veron, and who wanted to dance with
her?
Of course, the men do make independent observations about other dancers,
and if the woman's appearance discovered as deceptive, she may be
considered a poor judge of the quality of her dance partners and her
appearance coming off the dance floor will be discounted as unreliable. To
the extent men are risk averse in their selection of dance partners, a
person who is known as feigning an appearance will have less chance of
dancing. So even in a world of extremes, I would offer the same advice as
Carlos Rojas, " Just be yourself."
In reality, I would argue that most men are more interested in dancing
with a woman who dances well than in determining whether her last partner
was great or terrible. To men who do not know the woman, she is more
likely to look like she dances well if her previous dance partner is a
good dancer himself. So the key is avoiding terrible dancers. And, it
not really so bad to sit out and savor a great tanda before venturing back
out on the floor. Nor, is it bad to sit down and recover a bit after
having been thrown around by a terrible dancer.
With wishes for great dances for all,
Steve
Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:34:38 -0700
From: Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: changing partners
I look for people I would like/love to dance with. If they're are warm-blooded & ambulatory, we're set. Dancing is a shared activity. Part of my partner's enjoyment is my experience. kinda like another shared activity ;o) I love dancing & it comes through. If the song is of a certain early genre, it effects my experience & my partners, but...
r
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:39:04 -0400
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Changing partners
I am surprised that male dancers decide who to dance with based on "the look
of the lady" as she is coming out of the dancing floor.
Some will not dance with the ones that just had a terrible time and others
do the opposite, will not dance with the ones that just had a great time.
We always followed the advise of well known tango lyrics ... something like
"parate en la puerta y campanea las minas que sepan bailar". :))
In perfect slang it means "stand by the door and watch the ladies that
know how to dance".
The typical milonguero arrives to the club and sits at his table, then he
orders something to drink, he listens to the music and watches people dance
with special attention to the ladies that know how to dance. Next he detects
where those ladies sit. After a while the music and the wine circulating
in his veins invite him to dance, then is the moment to move and start
looking for a possible partner.
There are milongas where you have your "usual partners" three or four ladies
that you dance with, so there is not too much need for observation, except
when somebody new shows up. Then you want to see how she dances but... this
is the first time that I hear that the selection depends on the look of the
woman as she walks out of the dancing floor in reference to her
psychological prior experience, I have naturally heard that the selection is
frequently done on the basis of how she looks (physically I mean) :)) as she
comes, and as she goes as well.
With respect to this last comment I remember and English guy that told me
that a perfect gentleman looks at the ladies as they come but he never turns
around to see her from behind - 'What do you think about it?' - he asked
next . To which I answered well...I think that you miss at least half of it.
:))
We always learn something new, don't we?
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:35:59 -0400
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Changing partners
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:21:07 -0500
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: changing partners
I agree that a little time after a great dance is required. After a bad
dance, I think many women need a good dance within 3 or 4 dances so
they're not tempted to give up tango.
It's tempting to ignore followers who accept bad dancers, assuming that
they are not discerning enough to know the difference. Leaders can
assume that she's not a good dancer if she enjoys being tossed around,
"arm-lead", bumped into people, etc. Sometimes new or poor followers
even prefer this style, thinking they need "a strong lead". But
remember, she may just be really sweet and nice. Good manners in other
dance scenes require a woman to accept a dance in almost every instance
- bad dances are tolerable in other dances, but not so in tango.
That said, I always encourage the followers here to say no if they don't
enjoy the dance, especially with someone who has been dancing for years
and is not improving. (Beginners are a different story. Even "I" may be
nice :)!!)
Lois
Minneapolis, MN now but arriving in Bs.As Sunday!
-----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
[mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of Lynne Butler
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:13 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] changing partners
Okay, so Jay Rabe won't ask a woman if he can see she's just had a great
dance. And Stephen Brown won't ask her if she's just had a poor dance.
Is there a secret to looking "just right" walking off the floor? Fondly,
Goldilocks (Lynne, SLC)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 09:02:47 -0700
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Changing partners
"I try to observe how a woman dances to see if she may be a good match
for me."
To me the question should be: Am I a good match for her?
Then if we make an effort to match her, to be kind, to be gentle to be
attentive, then a good match most likely will happen.
And you will know, because at the end of each dance and at the end of
the tanda, she will not let go of your arms.
Carlos Rojas
Portland, OR
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:34:38 -0700
From: Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: changing partners
I look for people I would like/love to dance with. If
they're are
warm-blooded & ambulatory, we're set. Dancing is a
shared activity. Part of
my partner's enjoyment is my experience. kinda like
another shared
activity ;o) I love dancing & it comes through. If
the song is of a
certain early genre, it effects my experience & my
partners, but...
r
