CITA begins in BsAs


4818 CITA begins in BsAs	ARTICLE INDEX
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:55:02 -0300 From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> Subject: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU> I wish I could put out the word to single women (especially those over 50) that they are wasting their time and money by going to CITA. They pay $15-20US per class and don't know until they arrive that they have to pay another $15US per class to hire a taxi dancer. They could be going to the milongas everyday from 4-10pm. Single women learn by dancing with various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in classes. On Sunday I met Jackie from Spokane, Washington. She told me she came to Buenos Aires to dance with the milongueros. I told her that there are no milongueros teaching for CITA, and there won't be any milongueros dancing at the CITA milongas either. If she wants to dance with milongueros, she should forget the classes and go to the afternoon milongas. She was told that so-and-so is a milonguero, so she signed up for three of his classes at CITA. I happened to meet her on the street while she was trying to find the location of her first class. She had no idea where she was going. I escorted her from one location to another until we arrived at Bauen Suites where the class was being held. Jackie had not made arrangements to hire a taxi dancer, so I recommended she ask Julio to practice with her since he was there to translate the class for English-speakers. At least she'll have another week in Buenos Aires to dance in the milongas. Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 15:21 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com > I wish I could put out the word ... Single women learn by dancing with > various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in > classes. Janis, do you really think that word would have much effect? For each one saying that, there are a hundred teachers saying the opposite. -- Chris -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:55:02 -0300 I wish I could put out the word to single women (especially those over 50) that they are wasting their time and money by going to CITA. They pay $15-20US per class and don't know until they arrive that they have to pay another $15US per class to hire a taxi dancer. They could be going to the milongas everyday from 4-10pm. Single women learn by dancing with various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in classes. On Sunday I met Jackie from Spokane, Washington. She told me she came to Buenos Aires to dance with the milongueros. I told her that there are no milongueros teaching for CITA, and there won't be any milongueros dancing at the CITA milongas either. If she wants to dance with milongueros, she should forget the classes and go to the afternoon milongas. She was told that so-and-so is a milonguero, so she signed up for three of his classes at CITA. I happened to meet her on the street while she was trying to find the location of her first class. She had no idea where she was going. I escorted her from one location to another until we arrived at Bauen Suites where the class was being held. Jackie had not made arrangements to hire a taxi dancer, so I recommended she ask Julio to practice with her since he was there to translate the class for English-speakers. At least she'll have another week in Buenos Aires to dance in the milongas. Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:17:27 -0500 From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs Janis is right - going to classes and learning "steps" is not what followers need. I will sometimes get a follower who comes to me and wants to learn "that step where a guy goes...." All they are learning is how to anticipate, and we all know that is very bad! Instead, what a follower has to learn is how to hold her body the proper way to accept the lead. It may be a lot easier just to learn all the "steps". It is always easier to recite a prepared text than to write your own. I don't care what anybody says - Following is hard! Finding a teacher who can teach following well isn't easy either. I went to a lot of men (following the ballroom pattern of taking from a teacher of the opposite sex) before I took a lesson from a woman who gave me more in an hour than I had gotten for a year before. Learning on the floor by doing is probably better than memorizing patterns, or having some guy say "When I do this you're supposed to put your foot there". Lois Minneapolis -----Original Message----- From: Chris, UK [mailto:tl2@chrisjj.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:21 AM Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs > I wish I could put out the word ... Single women learn by dancing with > various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in > classes. Janis, do you really think that word would have much effect? For each one saying that, there are a hundred teachers saying the opposite. -- Chris -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:55:02 -0300 I wish I could put out the word to single women (especially those over 50) that they are wasting their time and money by going to CITA. They pay $15-20US per class and don't know until they arrive that they have to pay another $15US per class to hire a taxi dancer. They could be going to the milongas everyday from 4-10pm. Single women learn by dancing with various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in classes. On Sunday I met Jackie from Spokane, Washington. She told me she came to Buenos Aires to dance with the milongueros. I told her that there are no milongueros teaching for CITA, and there won't be any milongueros dancing at the CITA milongas either. If she wants to dance with milongueros, she should forget the classes and go to the afternoon milongas. She was told that so-and-so is a milonguero, so she signed up for three of his classes at CITA. I happened to meet her on the street while she was trying to find the location of her first class. She had no idea where she was going. I escorted her from one location to another until we arrived at Bauen Suites where the class was being held. Jackie had not made arrangements to hire a taxi dancer, so I recommended she ask Julio to practice with her since he was there to translate the class for English-speakers. At least she'll have another week in Buenos Aires to dance in the milongas. Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:18:40 -0500 From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs Janis is right - going to classes and learning "steps" is not what followers need. I will sometimes get a follower who comes to me and wants to learn "that step where a guy goes...." All they are learning is how to anticipate, and we all know that is very bad! Instead, what a follower has to learn is how to hold her body the proper way to accept the lead. It may be a lot easier just to learn all the "steps". It is always easier to recite a prepared text than to write your own. I don't care what anybody says - Following is hard! Finding a teacher who can teach following well isn't easy either. I went to a lot of men (following the ballroom pattern of taking from a teacher of the opposite sex) before I took a lesson from a woman who gave me more in an hour than I had gotten for a year before. Learning on the floor by doing is probably better than memorizing patterns, or having some guy say "When I do this you're supposed to put your foot there". Lois Minneapolis -----Original Message----- From: Chris, UK [mailto:tl2@chrisjj.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:21 AM Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs > I wish I could put out the word ... Single women learn by dancing with > various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in > classes. Janis, do you really think that word would have much effect? For each one saying that, there are a hundred teachers saying the opposite. -- Chris -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:55:02 -0300 I wish I could put out the word to single women (especially those over 50) that they are wasting their time and money by going to CITA. They pay $15-20US per class and don't know until they arrive that they have to pay another $15US per class to hire a taxi dancer. They could be going to the milongas everyday from 4-10pm. Single women learn by dancing with various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in classes. On Sunday I met Jackie from Spokane, Washington. She told me she came to Buenos Aires to dance with the milongueros. I told her that there are no milongueros teaching for CITA, and there won't be any milongueros dancing at the CITA milongas either. If she wants to dance with milongueros, she should forget the classes and go to the afternoon milongas. She was told that so-and-so is a milonguero, so she signed up for three of his classes at CITA. I happened to meet her on the street while she was trying to find the location of her first class. She had no idea where she was going. I escorted her from one location to another until we arrived at Bauen Suites where the class was being held. Jackie had not made arrangements to hire a taxi dancer, so I recommended she ask Julio to practice with her since he was there to translate the class for English-speakers. At least she'll have another week in Buenos Aires to dance in the milongas. Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 23:14 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Lois wrote: > I don't care what anybody says - Following is hard! Evidently not too hard for many thousands of girls (and guys) over much of the last century. Nor thousands in the present, too. Mind you, those 20th century girls weren't handicapped by "I don't care what anybody says" class teachers telling them that if they found following to be easy, actually they were completely mistaken - in fact it is really hard. > Finding a teacher who can teach following well isn't easy either. No coincidence there. Making the subject hard makes the teaching hard too. But no matter. Past and present, it's as Janis said: girls learn by dancing in the milongas. -- Chris -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:18:40 -0500 Janis is right - going to classes and learning "steps" is not what followers need. I will sometimes get a follower who comes to me and wants to learn "that step where a guy goes...." All they are learning is how to anticipate, and we all know that is very bad! Instead, what a follower has to learn is how to hold her body the proper way to accept the lead. It may be a lot easier just to learn all the "steps". It is always easier to recite a prepared text than to write your own. I don't care what anybody says - Following is hard! Finding a teacher who can teach following well isn't easy either. I went to a lot of men (following the ballroom pattern of taking from a teacher of the opposite sex) before I took a lesson from a woman who gave me more in an hour than I had gotten for a year before. Learning on the floor by doing is probably better than memorizing patterns, or having some guy say "When I do this you're supposed to put your foot there". Lois Minneapolis -----Original Message----- From: Chris, UK [mailto:tl2@chrisjj.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:21 AM Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs > I wish I could put out the word ... Single women learn by dancing with > various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in > classes. Janis, do you really think that word would have much effect? For each one saying that, there are a hundred teachers saying the opposite. -- Chris -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:55:02 -0300 I wish I could put out the word to single women (especially those over 50) that they are wasting their time and money by going to CITA. They pay $15-20US per class and don't know until they arrive that they have to pay another $15US per class to hire a taxi dancer. They could be going to the milongas everyday from 4-10pm. Single women learn by dancing with various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in classes. On Sunday I met Jackie from Spokane, Washington. She told me she came to Buenos Aires to dance with the milongueros. I told her that there are no milongueros teaching for CITA, and there won't be any milongueros dancing at the CITA milongas either. If she wants to dance with milongueros, she should forget the classes and go to the afternoon milongas. She was told that so-and-so is a milonguero, so she signed up for three of his classes at CITA. I happened to meet her on the street while she was trying to find the location of her first class. She had no idea where she was going. I escorted her from one location to another until we arrived at Bauen Suites where the class was being held. Jackie had not made arrangements to hire a taxi dancer, so I recommended she ask Julio to practice with her since he was there to translate the class for English-speakers. At least she'll have another week in Buenos Aires to dance in the milongas. Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 01:21:38 +0000 (GMT) From: Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Dear Tango Bigots, and those on my side, I'm currently at CITA (my 6th participation at CITA, and 8th visit to Buenos Aires for tango!) and I'm sick to death of the apparent snobbery directed at the CITA event...! What you get at CITA is a concentration of some of the best tango exponents (YES... TANGO!) in the world for in effect a fraction of what you'd normally pay for lessons from such experts... YES, EXPERTS! If you don't agree with this, then SHUT-UP rather than condemn, criticise and accuse! Haven't you people heard the expression "Live and Let Live"...???!!! As we go through the ages, the natural progression of ANY form of the Arts, Martial Arts, Literature... ANY DAMN THING!... is the concept of evolution! All things evolve! Anyone with any sort of internal creativity, improvisatory skills.... indeed BRAIN!... will adapt, create and invent!!! Isn't that how tango started??? ...an evolution of creativity in dance-associated culture governed by music??? Come off your high horses and accept that what you (and you SPECIFICALLY!) enjoy now - in any form of the arts - has come about through the evolution of many different facets of creative skills, intuition, curiosity and invention! We discover ourselves and or interests by experimention and creation! The interest in tango - however any particular individual interprets that word and art/dance form - has seen a WORLDWIDE resurgence of popularity over the past 40 years or so due to the promotion of this dance by events such as CITA and organisers/tango entrepreneurs such as Gustavo Naveira and Fabian Salas. It seems that the self-empowered 'purists' wish you hijack the success of the promotion of modern tango for their own ends. YES, I agree that one DOES learn (in some ways) more from in situ 'hands-on' experience rather than learning steps, but consider this: i. Working in classes with exercises, guidance, advice etc ...is, in itself, considerably more beneficial (in other ways) by ensuring that bad habits are ironed out, coordination, balance and improvisatory skills are improved and honed. ii. It doesn't matter whether the student is learning stage stuff, patterns, fantasia, acrobatics, how to rub their bellies while patting their heads, how to juggle lemons or, indeed, angelic choral singing...! The point is that they are developing a heightening of their proprioceptive abilities in coordinative, balance, and whatever else - skills! Now, taking the above points and examining them, can't you all see that these (and no doubt other aspects I haven't mentioned) will surely aid and improve WHATEVER type/style of tango the student prefers...???!!! The important thing for anyone to remember is that the CITA teachers DO INDEED make it clear to the students that much of the stuff they are learning is NOT APPLICABLE in a normal milonga situation...! I know this for a fact! I am not, strictly speaking, getting into an argument about so-called 'pure' traditional tango versus [in my words] modern/nuevo, or whatever, tango. I simply DO NOT CARE what anyone else dances. Just leave me and others who see the benefit of seeking to improve ourselves through events such as CITA... ALONE!!! If you can't say anything good... SHUT UP and say ...NOWT! Again, I'm sick of the bleating of the tango 'bigots' who think that THEIR WAY, THEIR VERSION (after all, that's all it is... a VERSION, albeit perhaps an original version) is the ONLY way and suggest that everyone else is wrong! I dance (I think!) closed-embrace Tango Nuevo... and I like it! [All close-minded tango bigots: hate-mail, please, to...] Dani Iannarelli Edinburgh, Scotland UK "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com> wrote: Lois wrote: > I don't care what anybody says - Following is hard! Evidently not too hard for many thousands of girls (and guys) over much of the last century. Nor thousands in the present, too. Mind you, those 20th century girls weren't handicapped by "I don't care what anybody says" class teachers telling them that if they found following to be easy, actually they were completely mistaken - in fact it is really hard. > Finding a teacher who can teach following well isn't easy either. No coincidence there. Making the subject hard makes the teaching hard too. But no matter. Past and present, it's as Janis said: girls learn by dancing in the milongas. -- Chris -------- Original Message -------- Subject:* Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs From: "Lois Donnay" To: Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:18:40 -0500 Janis is right - going to classes and learning "steps" is not what followers need. I will sometimes get a follower who comes to me and wants to learn "that step where a guy goes...." All they are learning is how to anticipate, and we all know that is very bad! Instead, what a follower has to learn is how to hold her body the proper way to accept the lead. It may be a lot easier just to learn all the "steps". It is always easier to recite a prepared text than to write your own. I don't care what anybody says - Following is hard! Finding a teacher who can teach following well isn't easy either. I went to a lot of men (following the ballroom pattern of taking from a teacher of the opposite sex) before I took a lesson from a woman who gave me more in an hour than I had gotten for a year before. Learning on the floor by doing is probably better than memorizing patterns, or having some guy say "When I do this you're supposed to put your foot there". Lois Minneapolis -----Original Message----- From: Chris, UK [mailto:tl2@chrisjj.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:21 AM Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs > I wish I could put out the word ... Single women learn by dancing with > various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in > classes. Janis, do you really think that word would have much effect? For each one saying that, there are a hundred teachers saying the opposite. -- Chris -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs From: "Janis Kenyon" To: "Tango-L" Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:55:02 -0300 I wish I could put out the word to single women (especially those over 50) that they are wasting their time and money by going to CITA. They pay $15-20US per class and don't know until they arrive that they have to pay another $15US per class to hire a taxi dancer. They could be going to the milongas everyday from 4-10pm. Single women learn by dancing with various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in classes. On Sunday I met Jackie from Spokane, Washington. She told me she came to Buenos Aires to dance with the milongueros. I told her that there are no milongueros teaching for CITA, and there won't be any milongueros dancing at the CITA milongas either. If she wants to dance with milongueros, she should forget the classes and go to the afternoon milongas. She was told that so-and-so is a milonguero, so she signed up for three of his classes at CITA. I happened to meet her on the street while she was trying to find the location of her first class. She had no idea where she was going. I escorted her from one location to another until we arrived at Bauen Suites where the class was being held. Jackie had not made arrangements to hire a taxi dancer, so I recommended she ask Julio to practice with her since he was there to translate the class for English-speakers. At least she'll have another week in Buenos Aires to dance in the milongas. Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:03:33 -0500 From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs I agree that women do not need to memorize steps or anticipate the guy's lead. However, the idea that women do not need to be taught to dance tango is not so certain. Sure, there are those rare women who are either naturally talented or very skilled dancers already who can follow basic tango leads very well. However, that's not at all the case with the vast majority of women. They are like the men, they cannot intuitively learn to dance tango (following) any more than guys can intuitively learn to lead. I'm very familiar with women who go to milongas only and never take lessons. Maybe they took a few lessons at the beginning, but decided they already knew how to dance and stopped learning. There are also those who have been taught by the resident self styled teacher who grabs every new women who shows up at a milongas and teaches her on the spot. I have news for these ladies: they really don't know how to follow very well and it can be a chore to dance with them. There is a huge difference in the experience of dancing with one of these ladies and a truly skilled woman dancer. It's like night and day... Taking tango lessons from a qualified teacher is not a bad thing. On the contrary, it is a very good way to learn to dance. Particularly for the women who want to learn to dance the follower's part. Also, if you find that you're not learning very much from your current male dance teacher, please try another one. Taking private lessons from a good male teacher will definitely improve immensely the following ability and dance skill of most women. Cheers, Manuel visit our webpage www.tango-rio.com >From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net> >Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs >Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:18:40 -0500 > >Janis is right - going to classes and learning "steps" is not what >followers >need. I will sometimes get a follower who comes to me and wants to learn >"that step where a guy goes...." All they are learning is how to >anticipate, >and we all know that is very bad! Instead, what a follower has to learn is >how to hold her body the proper way to accept the lead. It may be a lot >easier just to learn all the "steps". It is always easier to recite a >prepared text than to write your own. > >I don't care what anybody says - Following is hard! Finding a teacher who >can teach following well isn't easy either. I went to a lot of men >(following the ballroom pattern of taking from a teacher of the opposite >sex) before I took a lesson from a woman who gave me more in an hour than I >had gotten for a year before. Learning on the floor by doing is probably >better than memorizing patterns, or having some guy say "When I do this >you're supposed to put your foot there". > >Lois >Minneapolis > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Chris, UK [mailto:tl2@chrisjj.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:21 AM >Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com >Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs > > > I wish I could put out the word ... Single women learn by dancing with > > various partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in > > classes. > >Janis, do you really think that word would have much effect? For each one >saying that, there are a hundred teachers saying the opposite. > >-- >Chris > > > > >-------- Original Message -------- > >Subject: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs >From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> >Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:55:02 -0300 > >I wish I could put out the word to single women (especially those over 50) >that they are wasting their time and money by going to CITA. They pay >$15-20US per class and don't know until they arrive that they have to pay >another $15US per class to hire a taxi dancer. They could be going to the >milongas everyday from 4-10pm. Single women learn by dancing with various >partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in classes. > >On Sunday I met Jackie from Spokane, Washington. She told me she came to >Buenos Aires to dance with the milongueros. I told her that there are no >milongueros teaching for CITA, and there won't be any milongueros dancing >at >the CITA milongas either. If she wants to dance with milongueros, she >should forget the classes and go to the afternoon milongas. She was told >that so-and-so is a milonguero, so she signed up for three of his classes >at >CITA. > >I happened to meet her on the street while she was trying to find the >location of her first class. She had no idea where she was going. I >escorted her from one location to another until we arrived at Bauen Suites >where the class was being held. Jackie had not made arrangements to hire a >taxi dancer, so I recommended she ask Julio to practice with her since he >was there to translate the class for English-speakers. > >At least she'll have another week in Buenos Aires to dance in the milongas. > > > > > > Rates near 39yr lows! $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate new payment https://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moidu81 Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 19:38:23 -0700 From: m i l e s <miles@tangobliss.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs To: tango-l@mit.edu Janis (and everyone else), >Single women learn by dancing with various >partners in the milongas. They don't need to learn steps in classes. You are nuts, you do realize that right ? (smile) I say that with all the respect I can muster Janis because you're making it increasingly hard to believe what comes out of your keyboard. Let me get this straight, you're telling me that a single woman should come to BsAs and not take a single class, just show up at a milonga and get 'danced' ? Is that what I'm hearing ? Are you trying to tell me that there is absolutely ZERO benefit to a follower to take classes prior to going to a milonga ? Is that correct ? If that's so then you should tell one of the young ladies that I danced with on Monday night that she shouldn't bother going to classes at all in the bay area (and clearly not from Homer, Robert Riobio, or even Nora Dinglebacher). By your definition above, she's single, and she just got back from 6 weeks in BsAs, so clearly she's learned everything she needs to know and is ready to 'conquer' the bay area. Clearly. You know what Janis ? That's bullshit. I danced with her, and it was an absolute horrible experience for her AND for anyone that danced with her. She was a navigational hazard that needed the instruction to correct what were obvious and clear errors. Worse, she was dancing on her own and without the lead. Mind you there's nothing wrong with that, but as you've pointed out on so many different occasions, that tango is danced by two, not by one! She whispered in my ear so that only I could hear her the she needed to learn what she was doing right and wrong because it was clear from my lead (and everyone else's lead) that she could use more than a few classes. She could see the difference between 6 weeks in BsAs and women that were taking classes and actually LEARNING HOW to dance TANGO for YEARS! Prime example in the case above, because this was a practica, I could talk to her about her dancing, whereas is if this was a milonga that'd be a different story. I digress. In the case above, Before she whispered in my ear, I took her into a right turn in open embrace, and she walked around me....I thought perhaps I had mislead her somehow but I knew I was dealing with a beginner. Clearly someone in BsAs didn't do their job as you indicate Janis. Because she didn't learn a BASIC RIGHT TURN! I did it again from the left...and got the same result. We had talked earlier a few weeks back when she had literally stepped off the plane so I knew what her story was, in that she had spent a few weeks in BsAs, took no classes, just danced at the Milongas every night. I stopped and asked her in a sheepish voice, if she knew what a molenete was ? Blank Stare. She asked if I would show her and I told her I was unqualified to do so. However being a practica I gave it the old college try and walked her through my experience of it, as none of the 8 teachers present were available. But when one was available, I handed her off to one of them asap. Explaining to them that I wasn't qualified to teach her the requested movement properly from a followers standpoint. So you see Janis, I just don't subscribe to your belief that a 'single' woman or any woman for that matter could not benefit from more than a few classes. Because here is a prime example above of what you describe and not to name names, or to out anyone, but she could not dance. At the same time Janis, your logic implies that that the leads at the milongas in BsAs will teach her everything she needs to know. Well that's clear and present bullshit too, because according to her she went to the best milongas and danced. If that's so, the why was it that girlfriend didn't know what a Molente was ? Again, at the same time from your own essays on the subject over the years (that I've read in the archives) there are some HORRIBLE leads out there with TERRIBLE habits! I can not believe for an instant that you'd actually want one of those leads teaching her bad habits! So explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old Janis, because I'm literally not seeing this line of reasoning. M i l e s. Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 00:50:12 -0400 From: miamidances@aol.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs To: tango-l@mit.edu Hola Tangueros y Tangreras I would like to ask Janis how you started with your Tango dancing. Did you have any dance training before Tango? Did you start with lessons? Did you go to BA and learn on the dance floors at the Milongas? I personally like Janis, she is one of my friends. At this time I think that these answers would be good for our discussion and for everybody. Janis is a jewel to dance with, if you know how to lead. Sometimes we forget how we got to where we are in our dancing. Learning to dance is a growing process. We must start at basic levels of dance steps and technique, then advance to more accomplished levels of dance steps and technique. I remember how good I though I was after two years of dance. I remember how good I though I was after 5 years of dance. I now know after 30 years of dance how little I know and how much I have to learn. How does that saying go? The more we learn, the more we realize how little we know. May he rest in peace, Mr. Carlos Gavito said many times! the more you learn the less you will do on the social dance floor. IMHO any Tango event that you go to will be a benefit if you have an open mind to learn what is being taught and discussed. If you continue to go after five years you are going for the pomp and circumstance of the event. I love it. I think that these events are great to go to and participate in, to enjoy the friendships that we have developed over the years. Learning thru lessons and dancing socially are both necessary in the process of learning. Someone that does not take classes and only goes to Milongas or parties is missing the most important aspect of the process. Lesson?s first, Milongas and Parties second. Viva CITA, go Fabian. Randy in Miami AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 19:15:36 +1100 From: "Tango Tango" <tangotangotango@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs <9fb1555a0703150115m7b9a9538qb0cac0146cf63358@mail.gmail.com> Hi Dani. I'm glad you enjoy events like CITA. Please stay away from the Bs. As. milongas. Thanks Neil On 3/15/07, Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu> wrote: > > Dear Tango Bigots, and those on my side, > > I'm currently at CITA (my 6th participation at CITA, and 8th visit to > Buenos Aires for tango!) and I'm sick to death of the apparent snobbery > directed at the CITA event...! > > What you get at CITA is a concentration of some of the best tango > exponents (YES... TANGO!) in the world for in effect a fraction of what > you'd normally pay for lessons from such experts... YES, EXPERTS! > > If you don't agree with this, then SHUT-UP rather than condemn, > criticise and accuse! > > Haven't you people heard the expression "Live and Let Live"...???!!! > > As we go through the ages, the natural progression of ANY form of the > Arts, Martial Arts, Literature... ANY DAMN THING!... is the concept of > evolution! All things evolve! Anyone with any sort of internal creativity, > improvisatory skills.... indeed BRAIN!... will adapt, create and invent!!! > Isn't that how tango started??? ...an evolution of creativity in > dance-associated culture governed by music??? > > Come off your high horses and accept that what you (and you > SPECIFICALLY!) enjoy now - in any form of the arts - has come about through > the evolution of many different facets of creative skills, intuition, > curiosity and invention! We discover ourselves and or interests by > experimention and creation! > > The interest in tango - however any particular individual interprets > that word and art/dance form - has seen a WORLDWIDE resurgence of popularity > over the past 40 years or so due to the promotion of this dance by events > such as CITA and organisers/tango entrepreneurs such as Gustavo Naveira and > Fabian Salas. It seems that the self-empowered 'purists' wish you hijack the > success of the promotion of modern tango for their own ends. > > YES, I agree that one DOES learn (in some ways) more from in situ > 'hands-on' experience rather than learning steps, but consider this: > > i. Working in classes with exercises, guidance, advice etc ...is, in > itself, considerably more beneficial (in other ways) by ensuring that bad > habits are ironed out, coordination, balance and improvisatory skills are > improved and honed. > > ii. It doesn't matter whether the student is learning stage stuff, > patterns, fantasia, acrobatics, how to rub their bellies while patting their > heads, how to juggle lemons or, indeed, angelic choral singing...! The point > is that they are developing a heightening of their proprioceptive abilities > in coordinative, balance, and whatever else - skills! > > Now, taking the above points and examining them, can't you all see that > these (and no doubt other aspects I haven't mentioned) will surely aid and > improve WHATEVER type/style of tango the student prefers...???!!! > > The important thing for anyone to remember is that the CITA teachers DO > INDEED make it clear to the students that much of the stuff they are > learning is NOT APPLICABLE in a normal milonga situation...! I know this for > a fact! > > I am not, strictly speaking, getting into an argument about so-called > 'pure' traditional tango versus [in my words] modern/nuevo, or whatever, > tango. I simply DO NOT CARE what anyone else dances. Just leave me and > others who see the benefit of seeking to improve ourselves through events > such as CITA... ALONE!!! If you can't say anything good... SHUT UP and say > ...NOWT! > > Again, I'm sick of the bleating of the tango 'bigots' who think that > THEIR WAY, THEIR VERSION (after all, that's all it is... a VERSION, albeit > perhaps an original version) is the ONLY way and suggest that everyone else > is wrong! > > I dance (I think!) closed-embrace Tango Nuevo... and I like it! > > [All close-minded tango bigots: hate-mail, please, to...] > Dani Iannarelli > Edinburgh, > Scotland UK > > > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:07:42 -0300 From: Robin Tara <rtara@maine.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs I'm 60 years old. I've never been to CITA. I have danced in Buenos Aires for 14 years on trips lasting from between 10 days to 3 months. I went on Trenner tours in the 90's and since then have traveled here alone. For all the grown-up women who want to come here I offer some thoughts: 1. Festivals are about more than classes. 2. You learn what you're willing to embrace - through all your experiences. 3. You get out what you put in. That's true of any activity, of course. 4. The milongas differ from night to night depending mostly upon your own mindset. So - 5. Be nice. 6. Wear lipstick 7. Wear shoes that are comfortable 8. Put in your time 9. Go to afternoon milongas But - 10. If all you want to do is to dance every tanda, hire a taxi dancer. Besos de Buenos Aires, Robin Tara TangoMina/TaraShoes 486 Riobamba - piso 10 Buenos Aires Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 13:14:09 -0500 From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> Subject: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs To: tango-l@mit.edu Ay yi yi - quite a contentious subject this has been. I tell you what: I went to a milonga after having taken just a few classes. All I knew at that point was the salida and ochos. My experience at the milonga was nothing but pure humiliation. So, yes, women do need to learn - whether in class, private lessons or from a kind leader willing to teach. Yes, you can learn at milongas but if you were living in Buenos Aires, you would have access to hundreds of practicas and parties and classes and private lessons and tango friends where you could learn to improve to make your next milonga experience better. What I know for absolute certain is that in milongas, men do not like to be seen with a woman who does not dance nor follow well. So, if you have no experience, no learning and want to learn only at milongas, good luck lady, you'll need it. When I went to Buenos Aires, I was so glad that I had a year's experience under my belt. This made me good enough to get asked for dances and from there, I was able to expand my learning. But to expand, you need to get on the floor first. If you don't know how to dance, well, find a comfortable chair for you'll be sitting all night. The downside to classes is that they do interfere with the natural process of following which is listening to your leader and his body. Classes focus on steps, and certainly not enough on listening to your partner. Many leaders in my class would freeze if they made a mistake or were in danger of bumping into someone else instead of recovering nicely and carrying on. That's the problem with classes that fixate too much on one element of tango and neglecting all others. In Buenos Aires, I learned what I had missed out in class - which is to follow naturally and instinctively with nary a thought about steps. That is something you can't really learn in class, you have to go to milongas for that. Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. https://spaces.live.com/?mkt=en-ca Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 01:11:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs Neil, You clearly do not know what the hell you are talking about, and you obviously did not read my posting correctly. Perhaps it's simply that you choose to ignore the what I've actually said and have corrupted it to suit your own ego. Read on... I DO go to BsAs milongas and I DO dance close and DO NOT implement wild ganchos and voleos while I am dancing. I keep things tight and unobtrusive. I think you should shut your mouth and pay attention to what is actually said in a posting rather than bleat belching platitudes relating to your own corrupt perceptions designed undoubtedly to satisfy your own self importance. I did not insult anyone, yet you seem to think it's okay to insult me...! Get your act together, man... if, indeed, that's what you are! Dani Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Dani. I'm glad you enjoy events like CITA. Please stay away from the Bs. As. milongas. Thanks Neil On 3/15/07, Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ wrote: > > Dear Tango Bigots, and those on my side, > > I'm currently at CITA (my 6th participation at CITA, and 8th visit to > Buenos Aires for tango!) and I'm sick to death of the apparent snobbery > directed at the CITA event...! > > What you get at CITA is a concentration of some of the best tango > exponents (YES... TANGO!) in the world for in effect a fraction of what > you'd normally pay for lessons from such experts... YES, EXPERTS! > > If you don't agree with this, then SHUT-UP rather than condemn, > criticise and accuse! > > Haven't you people heard the expression "Live and Let Live"...???!!! > > As we go through the ages, the natural progression of ANY form of the > Arts, Martial Arts, Literature... ANY DAMN THING!... is the concept of > evolution! All things evolve! Anyone with any sort of internal creativity, > improvisatory skills.... indeed BRAIN!... will adapt, create and invent!!! > Isn't that how tango started??? ...an evolution of creativity in > dance-associated culture governed by music??? > > Come off your high horses and accept that what you (and you > SPECIFICALLY!) enjoy now - in any form of the arts - has come about through > the evolution of many different facets of creative skills, intuition, > curiosity and invention! We discover ourselves and or interests by > experimention and creation! > > The interest in tango - however any particular individual interprets > that word and art/dance form - has seen a WORLDWIDE resurgence of popularity > over the past 40 years or so due to the promotion of this dance by events > such as CITA and organisers/tango entrepreneurs such as Gustavo Naveira and > Fabian Salas. It seems that the self-empowered 'purists' wish you hijack the > success of the promotion of modern tango for their own ends. > > YES, I agree that one DOES learn (in some ways) more from in situ > 'hands-on' experience rather than learning steps, but consider this: > > i. Working in classes with exercises, guidance, advice etc ...is, in > itself, considerably more beneficial (in other ways) by ensuring that bad > habits are ironed out, coordination, balance and improvisatory skills are > improved and honed. > > ii. It doesn't matter whether the student is learning stage stuff, > patterns, fantasia, acrobatics, how to rub their bellies while patting their > heads, how to juggle lemons or, indeed, angelic choral singing...! The point > is that they are developing a heightening of their proprioceptive abilities > in coordinative, balance, and whatever else - skills! > > Now, taking the above points and examining them, can't you all see that > these (and no doubt other aspects I haven't mentioned) will surely aid and > improve WHATEVER type/style of tango the student prefers...???!!! > > The important thing for anyone to remember is that the CITA teachers DO > INDEED make it clear to the students that much of the stuff they are > learning is NOT APPLICABLE in a normal milonga situation...! I know this for > a fact! > > I am not, strictly speaking, getting into an argument about so-called > 'pure' traditional tango versus [in my words] modern/nuevo, or whatever, > tango. I simply DO NOT CARE what anyone else dances. Just leave me and > others who see the benefit of seeking to improve ourselves through events > such as CITA... ALONE!!! If you can't say anything good... SHUT UP and say > ...NOWT! > > Again, I'm sick of the bleating of the tango 'bigots' who think that > THEIR WAY, THEIR VERSION (after all, that's all it is... a VERSION, albeit > perhaps an original version) is the ONLY way and suggest that everyone else > is wrong! > > I dance (I think!) closed-embrace Tango Nuevo... and I like it! > > [All close-minded tango bigots: hate-mail, please, to...] > Dani Iannarelli > Edinburgh, > Scotland UK > > > Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:21:26 +1100 From: "Tango Tango" <tangotangotango@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs To: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu Cc: tango-l@mit.edu <9fb1555a0703152021x7b99bf11pb0d76622150a697@mail.gmail.com> Hi Dani. I did indeed read your post and I understood it fully. Please stay away from the Bs. As. milongas. Best regards, Neil On 3/16/07, Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu> wrote: > > Neil, > > You clearly do not know what the hell you are talking about, and you > obviously did not read my posting correctly. Perhaps it's simply that you > choose to ignore the what I've actually said and have corrupted it to suit > your own ego. > > Read on... > > I DO go to BsAs milongas and I DO dance close and DO NOT implement wild > ganchos and voleos while I am dancing. I keep things tight and unobtrusive. > > I think you should shut your mouth and pay attention to what is actually > said in a posting rather than bleat belching platitudes relating to your own > corrupt perceptions designed undoubtedly to satisfy your own self > importance. > > I did not insult anyone, yet you seem to think it's okay to insult me...! > > Get your act together, man... if, indeed, that's what you are! > > Dani > > > > Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Dani. > > I'm glad you enjoy events like CITA. > > Please stay away from the Bs. As. milongas. > > Thanks > Neil > > > On 3/15/07, Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ wrote: > > > > Dear Tango Bigots, and those on my side, > > > > I'm currently at CITA (my 6th participation at CITA, and 8th visit to > > Buenos Aires for tango!) and I'm sick to death of the apparent snobbery > > directed at the CITA event...! > > > > What you get at CITA is a concentration of some of the best tango > > exponents (YES... TANGO!) in the world for in effect a fraction of what > > you'd normally pay for lessons from such experts... YES, EXPERTS! > > > > If you don't agree with this, then SHUT-UP rather than condemn, > > criticise and accuse! > > > > Haven't you people heard the expression "Live and Let Live"...???!!! > > > > As we go through the ages, the natural progression of ANY form of the > > Arts, Martial Arts, Literature... ANY DAMN THING!... is the concept of > > evolution! All things evolve! Anyone with any sort of internal > creativity, > > improvisatory skills.... indeed BRAIN!... will adapt, create and > invent!!! > > Isn't that how tango started??? ...an evolution of creativity in > > dance-associated culture governed by music??? > > > > Come off your high horses and accept that what you (and you > > SPECIFICALLY!) enjoy now - in any form of the arts - has come about > through > > the evolution of many different facets of creative skills, intuition, > > curiosity and invention! We discover ourselves and or interests by > > experimention and creation! > > > > The interest in tango - however any particular individual interprets > > that word and art/dance form - has seen a WORLDWIDE resurgence of > popularity > > over the past 40 years or so due to the promotion of this dance by > events > > such as CITA and organisers/tango entrepreneurs such as Gustavo Naveira > and > > Fabian Salas. It seems that the self-empowered 'purists' wish you hijack > the > > success of the promotion of modern tango for their own ends. > > > > YES, I agree that one DOES learn (in some ways) more from in situ > > 'hands-on' experience rather than learning steps, but consider this: > > > > i. Working in classes with exercises, guidance, advice etc ...is, in > > itself, considerably more beneficial (in other ways) by ensuring that > bad > > habits are ironed out, coordination, balance and improvisatory skills > are > > improved and honed. > > > > ii. It doesn't matter whether the student is learning stage stuff, > > patterns, fantasia, acrobatics, how to rub their bellies while patting > their > > heads, how to juggle lemons or, indeed, angelic choral singing...! The > point > > is that they are developing a heightening of their proprioceptive > abilities > > in coordinative, balance, and whatever else - skills! > > > > Now, taking the above points and examining them, can't you all see that > > these (and no doubt other aspects I haven't mentioned) will surely aid > and > > improve WHATEVER type/style of tango the student prefers...???!!! > > > > The important thing for anyone to remember is that the CITA teachers DO > > INDEED make it clear to the students that much of the stuff they are > > learning is NOT APPLICABLE in a normal milonga situation...! I know this > for > > a fact! > > > > I am not, strictly speaking, getting into an argument about so-called > > 'pure' traditional tango versus [in my words] modern/nuevo, or whatever, > > tango. I simply DO NOT CARE what anyone else dances. Just leave me and > > others who see the benefit of seeking to improve ourselves through > events > > such as CITA... ALONE!!! If you can't say anything good... SHUT UP and > say > > ...NOWT! > > > > Again, I'm sick of the bleating of the tango 'bigots' who think that > > THEIR WAY, THEIR VERSION (after all, that's all it is... a VERSION, > albeit > > perhaps an original version) is the ONLY way and suggest that everyone > else > > is wrong! > > > > I dance (I think!) closed-embrace Tango Nuevo... and I like it! > > > > [All close-minded tango bigots: hate-mail, please, to...] > > Dani Iannarelli > > Edinburgh, > > Scotland UK > > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:43:35 +0000 (GMT) From: Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs To: Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com>, dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu Cc: tango-l@mit.edu Hi Neil, Very clever, little boy. Did you think up your would-be witticism all by yourself? Regards Dani Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Dani. I did indeed read your post and I understood it fully. Please stay away from the Bs. As. milongas. Best regards, Neil On 3/16/07, Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu> wrote: Neil, You clearly do not know what the hell you are talking about, and you obviously did not read my posting correctly. Perhaps it's simply that you choose to ignore the what I've actually said and have corrupted it to suit your own ego. Read on... I DO go to BsAs milongas and I DO dance close and DO NOT implement wild ganchos and voleos while I am dancing. I keep things tight and unobtrusive. I think you should shut your mouth and pay attention to what is actually said in a posting rather than bleat belching platitudes relating to your own corrupt perceptions designed undoubtedly to satisfy your own self importance. I did not insult anyone, yet you seem to think it's okay to insult me...! Get your act together, man... if, indeed, that's what you are! Dani Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com > wrote: Hi Dani. I'm glad you enjoy events like CITA. Please stay away from the Bs. As. milongas. Thanks Neil On 3/15/07, Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ wrote: > > Dear Tango Bigots, and those on my side, > > I'm currently at CITA (my 6th participation at CITA, and 8th visit to > Buenos Aires for tango!) and I'm sick to death of the apparent snobbery > directed at the CITA event...! > > What you get at CITA is a concentration of some of the best tango > exponents (YES... TANGO!) in the world for in effect a fraction of what > you'd normally pay for lessons from such experts... YES, EXPERTS! > > If you don't agree with this, then SHUT-UP rather than condemn, > criticise and accuse! > > Haven't you people heard the expression "Live and Let Live"...???!!! > > As we go through the ages, the natural progression of ANY form of the > Arts, Martial Arts, Literature... ANY DAMN THING!... is the concept of > evolution! All things evolve! Anyone with any sort of internal creativity, > improvisatory skills.... indeed BRAIN!... will adapt, create and invent!!! > Isn't that how tango started??? ...an evolution of creativity in > dance-associated culture governed by music??? > > Come off your high horses and accept that what you (and you > SPECIFICALLY!) enjoy now - in any form of the arts - has come about through > the evolution of many different facets of creative skills, intuition, > curiosity and invention! We discover ourselves and or interests by > experimention and creation! > > The interest in tango - however any particular individual interprets > that word and art/dance form - has seen a WORLDWIDE resurgence of popularity > over the past 40 years or so due to the promotion of this dance by events > such as CITA and organisers/tango entrepreneurs such as Gustavo Naveira and > Fabian Salas. It seems that the self-empowered 'purists' wish you hijack the > success of the promotion of modern tango for their own ends. > > YES, I agree that one DOES learn (in some ways) more from in situ > 'hands-on' experience rather than learning steps, but consider this: > > i. Working in classes with exercises, guidance, advice etc ...is, in > itself, considerably more beneficial (in other ways) by ensuring that bad > habits are ironed out, coordination, balance and improvisatory skills are > improved and honed. > > ii. It doesn't matter whether the student is learning stage stuff, > patterns, fantasia, acrobatics, how to rub their bellies while patting their > heads, how to juggle lemons or, indeed, angelic choral singing...! The point > is that they are developing a heightening of their proprioceptive abilities > in coordinative, balance, and whatever else - skills! > > Now, taking the above points and examining them, can't you all see that > these (and no doubt other aspects I haven't mentioned) will surely aid and > improve WHATEVER type/style of tango the student prefers...???!!! > > The important thing for anyone to remember is that the CITA teachers DO > INDEED make it clear to the students that much of the stuff they are > learning is NOT APPLICABLE in a normal milonga situation...! I know this for > a fact! > > I am not, strictly speaking, getting into an argument about so-called > 'pure' traditional tango versus [in my words] modern/nuevo, or whatever, > tango. I simply DO NOT CARE what anyone else dances. Just leave me and > others who see the benefit of seeking to improve ourselves through events > such as CITA... ALONE!!! If you can't say anything good... SHUT UP and say > ...NOWT! > > Again, I'm sick of the bleating of the tango 'bigots' who think that > THEIR WAY, THEIR VERSION (after all, that's all it is... a VERSION, albeit > perhaps an original version) is the ONLY way and suggest that everyone else > is wrong! > > I dance (I think!) closed-embrace Tango Nuevo... and I like it! > > [All close-minded tango bigots: hate-mail, please, to...] > Dani Iannarelli > Edinburgh, > Scotland UK > > > Dani Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 07:55:56 -0700 (PDT) From: NANCY <ningle_2000@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs To: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu, Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> Cc: tango-l@mit.edu <MEEEOOOOWWWW> CAT FIGHT! CAT FIGHT! --- Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu> wrote: > Hi Neil, > Very clever, little boy. > Did you think up your would-be witticism all by > yourself? > Regards > Dani > > Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Dani. > > I did indeed read your post and I understood it > fully. > > Please stay away from the Bs. As. milongas. > > Best regards, > Neil > > > On 3/16/07, Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ > <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu> wrote: Neil, > > You clearly do not know what the hell you are > talking about, and you obviously did not read my > posting correctly. Perhaps it's simply that you > choose to ignore the what I've actually said and > have corrupted it to suit your own ego. > > Read on... > > I DO go to BsAs milongas and I DO dance close and > DO NOT implement wild ganchos and voleos while I am > dancing. I keep things tight and unobtrusive. > > I think you should shut your mouth and pay > attention to what is actually said in a posting > rather than bleat belching platitudes relating to > your own corrupt perceptions designed undoubtedly to > satisfy your own self importance. > > I did not insult anyone, yet you seem to think > it's okay to insult me...! > > Get your act together, man... if, indeed, that's > what you are! > > Dani > > > > Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com > wrote: > Hi Dani. > > I'm glad you enjoy events like CITA. > > Please stay away from the Bs. As. milongas. > > Thanks > Neil > > > On 3/15/07, Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ wrote: > > > > Dear Tango Bigots, and those on my side, > > > > I'm currently at CITA (my 6th participation at > CITA, and 8th visit to > > Buenos Aires for tango!) and I'm sick to death of > the apparent snobbery > > directed at the CITA event...! > > > > What you get at CITA is a concentration of some of > the best tango > > exponents (YES... TANGO!) in the world for in > effect a fraction of what > > you'd normally pay for lessons from such > experts... YES, EXPERTS! > > > > If you don't agree with this, then SHUT-UP rather > than condemn, > > criticise and accuse! > > > > Haven't you people heard the expression "Live and > Let Live"...???!!! > > > > As we go through the ages, the natural progression > of ANY form of the > > Arts, Martial Arts, Literature... ANY DAMN > THING!... is the concept of > > evolution! All things evolve! Anyone with any sort > of internal creativity, > > improvisatory skills.... indeed BRAIN!... will > adapt, create and invent!!! > > Isn't that how tango started??? ...an evolution of > creativity in > > dance-associated culture governed by music??? > > > > Come off your high horses and accept that what you > (and you > > SPECIFICALLY!) enjoy now - in any form of the arts > - has come about through > > the evolution of many different facets of creative > skills, intuition, > > curiosity and invention! We discover ourselves and > or interests by > > experimention and creation! > > > > The interest in tango - however any particular > individual interprets > > that word and art/dance form - has seen a > WORLDWIDE resurgence of popularity > > over the past 40 years or so due to the promotion > of this dance by events > > such as CITA and organisers/tango entrepreneurs > such as Gustavo Naveira and > > Fabian Salas. It seems that the self-empowered > 'purists' wish you hijack the > > success of the promotion of modern tango for their > own ends. > > > > YES, I agree that one DOES learn (in some ways) > more from in situ > > 'hands-on' experience rather than learning steps, > but consider this: > > > > i. Working in classes with exercises, guidance, > advice etc ...is, in > > itself, considerably more beneficial (in other > ways) by ensuring that bad > > habits are ironed out, coordination, balance and > improvisatory skills are > > improved and honed. > > > > ii. It doesn't matter whether the student is > learning stage stuff, > > patterns, fantasia, acrobatics, how to rub their > bellies while patting their > > heads, how to juggle lemons or, indeed, angelic > choral singing...! The point > > is that they are developing a heightening of their > proprioceptive abilities > > in coordinative, balance, and whatever else - > skills! > > > > Now, taking the above points and examining them, > can't you all see that > > these (and no doubt other aspects I haven't > mentioned) will surely aid and > > improve WHATEVER type/style of tango the student > prefers...???!!! > > > > The important thing for anyone to remember is that > the CITA teachers DO > > INDEED make it clear to the students that much of > the stuff they are > > learning is NOT APPLICABLE in a normal milonga > situation...! I know this for > > a fact! > > > > I am not, strictly speaking, getting into an > argument about so-called > > 'pure' traditional tango versus [in my words] > modern/nuevo, or whatever, > > tango. I simply DO NOT CARE what anyone else > dances. Just leave me and > > others who see the benefit of seeking to improve > ourselves through events > > such as CITA... ALONE!!! If you can't say anything > good... SHUT UP and say > > ...NOWT! > > > > Again, I'm sick of the bleating of the tango > 'bigots' who think that > > THEIR WAY, THEIR VERSION (after all, that's all it > is... a VERSION, albeit > > perhaps an original version) is the ONLY way and > suggest that everyone else > > is wrong! > > > > I dance (I think!) closed-embrace Tango Nuevo... > and I like it! > > > > [All close-minded tango bigots: hate-mail, please, > to...] > > Dani Iannarelli > > Edinburgh, > > Scotland UK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dani > The fish are biting. Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:59:10 +0000 (GMT) From: Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] CITA begins in BsAs To: NANCY <ningle_2000@yahoo.com>, dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu, Tango Tango <tangotangotango@gmail.com> Cc: tango-l@mit.edu Hi Nancy, I love cats... Dani NANCY <ningle_2000@yahoo.com> wrote: CAT FIGHT! CAT FIGHT! --- Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ wrote: > Hi Neil, > Very clever, little boy. > Did you think up your would-be witticism all by > yourself? > Regards > Dani > > Tango Tango wrote: > Hi Dani. > > I did indeed read your post and I understood it > fully. > > Please stay away from the Bs. As. milongas. > > Best regards, > Neil > > > On 3/16/07, Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ > wrote: Neil, > > You clearly do not know what the hell you are > talking about, and you obviously did not read my > posting correctly. Perhaps it's simply that you > choose to ignore the what I've actually said and > have corrupted it to suit your own ego. > > Read on... > > I DO go to BsAs milongas and I DO dance close and > DO NOT implement wild ganchos and voleos while I am > dancing. I keep things tight and unobtrusive. > > I think you should shut your mouth and pay > attention to what is actually said in a posting > rather than bleat belching platitudes relating to > your own corrupt perceptions designed undoubtedly to > satisfy your own self importance. > > I did not insult anyone, yet you seem to think > it's okay to insult me...! > > Get your act together, man... if, indeed, that's > what you are! > > Dani > > > > Tango Tango wrote: > Hi Dani. > > I'm glad you enjoy events like CITA. > > Please stay away from the Bs. As. milongas. > > Thanks > Neil > > > On 3/15/07, Club~TangoLa Dolce Vita~ wrote: > > > > Dear Tango Bigots, and those on my side, > > > > I'm currently at CITA (my 6th participation at > CITA, and 8th visit to > > Buenos Aires for tango!) and I'm sick to death of > the apparent snobbery > > directed at the CITA event...! > > > > What you get at CITA is a concentration of some of > the best tango > > exponents (YES... TANGO!) in the world for in > effect a fraction of what > > you'd normally pay for lessons from such > experts... YES, EXPERTS! > > > > If you don't agree with this, then SHUT-UP rather > than condemn, > > criticise and accuse! > > > > Haven't you people heard the expression "Live and > Let Live"...???!!! > > > > As we go through the ages, the natural progression > of ANY form of the > > Arts, Martial Arts, Literature... ANY DAMN > THING!... is the concept of > > evolution! All things evolve! Anyone with any sort > of internal creativity, > > improvisatory skills.... indeed BRAIN!... will > adapt, create and invent!!! > > Isn't that how tango started??? ...an evolution of > creativity in > > dance-associated culture governed by music??? > > > > Come off your high horses and accept that what you > (and you > > SPECIFICALLY!) enjoy now - in any form of the arts > - has come about through > > the evolution of many different facets of creative > skills, intuition, > > curiosity and invention! We discover ourselves and > or interests by > > experimention and creation! > > > > The interest in tango - however any particular > individual interprets > > that word and art/dance form - has seen a > WORLDWIDE resurgence of popularity > > over the past 40 years or so due to the promotion > of this dance by events > > such as CITA and organisers/tango entrepreneurs > such as Gustavo Naveira and > > Fabian Salas. It seems that the self-empowered > 'purists' wish you hijack the > > success of the promotion of modern tango for their > own ends. > > > > YES, I agree that one DOES learn (in some ways) > more from in situ > > 'hands-on' experience rather than learning steps, > but consider this: > > > > i. Working in classes with exercises, guidance, > advice etc ...is, in > > itself, considerably more beneficial (in other > ways) by ensuring that bad > > habits are ironed out, coordination, balance and > improvisatory skills are > > improved and honed. > > > > ii. It doesn't matter whether the student is > learning stage stuff, > > patterns, fantasia, acrobatics, how to rub their > bellies while patting their > > heads, how to juggle lemons or, indeed, angelic > choral singing...! The point > > is that they are developing a heightening of their > proprioceptive abilities > > in coordinative, balance, and whatever else - > skills! > > > > Now, taking the above points and examining them, > can't you all see that > > these (and no doubt other aspects I haven't > mentioned) will surely aid and > > improve WHATEVER type/style of tango the student > prefers...???!!! > > > > The important thing for anyone to remember is that > the CITA teachers DO > > INDEED make it clear to the students that much of > the stuff they are > > learning is NOT APPLICABLE in a normal milonga > situation...! I know this for > > a fact! > > > > I am not, strictly speaking, getting into an > argument about so-called > > 'pure' traditional tango versus [in my words] > modern/nuevo, or whatever, > > tango. I simply DO NOT CARE what anyone else > dances. Just leave me and > > others who see the benefit of seeking to improve > ourselves through events > > such as CITA... ALONE!!! If you can't say anything > good... SHUT UP and say > > ...NOWT! > > > > Again, I'm sick of the bleating of the tango > 'bigots' who think that > > THEIR WAY, THEIR VERSION (after all, that's all it > is... a VERSION, albeit > > perhaps an original version) is the ONLY way and > suggest that everyone else > > is wrong! > > > > I dance (I think!) closed-embrace Tango Nuevo... > and I like it! > > > > [All close-minded tango bigots: hate-mail, please, > to...] > > Dani Iannarelli > > Edinburgh, > > Scotland UK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dani > The fish are biting. Dani Continue to "Yira yira" report* \| ARTICLE INDEX

4818 CITA begins in BsAs