4622 cortinas, conventions + such
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 11:52:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Linda A." <tangaux02@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] cortinas, conventions + such
To: TANGO-L@MIT.EDU
Let me see if I have this straight:
We all agree that we're not talking about
slavish, to-the-letter adherence to tradition.
Tango is not a museum piece. Nor is it about
trying to follow said traditions so rigidly that
one ends up trying to out-Argentine the
Argentines, and becomes a caricature in the
process.
However, I find it impossible to learn a dance
without at least some regard for the culture +
conventions surrounding it. It's insensitive at
best, and laughably delusional at worst. And
"social" doesn't just refer to your home
community--it's also about how you relate to
other people in other communities. (I was an
anthropologist, go figure.)
Just because we're in North America (or Paris or
Tokyo), it's still ARGENTINE tango. Differing
norms don't change the overarching conventions
within tango. "Not being in Rome" doesn't give
you leave to play Gardel at a milonga, or yank
someone onto the dance floor. On the flip side,
neither does it give you leave to stare
disdainfully at the floor, lamenting the
hopelessness of us poor norteamericanos who "just
don't get it." (I'm naming extreme cases here.)
Point is, there are bound to be outside
influences that color tango, but I think it's
also important to acknowledge the basic social
structure of tango, if we hope to dance it with
any measure of authenticity. (I know virtually
all of you do: the recent uproar over Dancing
with the Stars confirms that.)
DJs, organizers and teachers have a larger
responsibility to their communities, so they have
more pressure to represent tango well. Is every
professional a good role model? Of course not.
Being Argentine alone doesn't make you an
automatic ambassador of tango. Being a great
dancer but an obnoxious personality won't help
either. Thankfully, the tango world is big
enough to encompass the angels + devils alike.
Warmly,
Linda
(formerly of PHL, but freezing in New Haven)
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 20:27:57 +0000 (GMT)
From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] cortinas, conventions + such
To: TANGO-L@MIT.EDU
Talking traditions: the music, which is central to Tango, is hardly mentioned here.
For the beginning of a tanda signals the style/orchestra which will be played to its end, and those who don't favor that particular combination, will wait it out.
Lucia
"Linda A." <tangaux02@yahoo.com> escribi?: Let me see if I have this straight:
We all agree that we're not talking about
slavish, to-the-letter adherence to tradition.
Tango is not a museum piece. Nor is it about
trying to follow said traditions so rigidly that
one ends up trying to out-Argentine the
Argentines, and becomes a caricature in the
process.
However, I find it impossible to learn a dance
without at least some regard for the culture +
conventions surrounding it. It's insensitive at
best, and laughably delusional at worst. And
"social" doesn't just refer to your home
community--it's also about how you relate to
other people in other communities. (I was an
anthropologist, go figure.)
Just because we're in North America (or Paris or
Tokyo), it's still ARGENTINE tango. Differing
norms don't change the overarching conventions
within tango. "Not being in Rome" doesn't give
you leave to play Gardel at a milonga, or yank
someone onto the dance floor. On the flip side,
neither does it give you leave to stare
disdainfully at the floor, lamenting the
hopelessness of us poor norteamericanos who "just
don't get it." (I'm naming extreme cases here.)
Point is, there are bound to be outside
influences that color tango, but I think it's
also important to acknowledge the basic social
structure of tango, if we hope to dance it with
any measure of authenticity. (I know virtually
all of you do: the recent uproar over Dancing
with the Stars confirms that.)
DJs, organizers and teachers have a larger
responsibility to their communities, so they have
more pressure to represent tango well. Is every
professional a good role model? Of course not.
Being Argentine alone doesn't make you an
automatic ambassador of tango. Being a great
dancer but an obnoxious personality won't help
either. Thankfully, the tango world is big
enough to encompass the angels + devils alike.
Warmly,
Linda
(formerly of PHL, but freezing in New Haven)
Pregunt?. Respond?. Descubr?.
Todo lo que quer?as saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est? en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
Probalo ya!
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 15:11:26 -0600
From: dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com (Dave Schmitz)
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] cortinas, conventions + such
To: TANGO-L@mit.edu, curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar
Lucia wrote:
> Talking traditions: the music, which is central to Tango, is hardly mentioned here.
> For the beginning of a tanda signals the style/orchestra which will be played to its end, and those who don't favor that particular combination, will wait it out.
Dear Lucia y todos,
Alas, though that was true in B.A. in the milongas I attended,
it is not true of several of the North American deejays Neil listed,
and makes for a FRUSTRATING DISAPPOINTMENT with the music played
by those several,
and yes, Manuel, I have mentioned my disappointment to a couple of them
directly, but to no avail.
To have the second, and only the second, song of a tanda be
D'Agostino+Vargas, is extremely frustrating.
To have all four songs be from different orchestras is
abominable.
I try to choose a partner for the music.
When the style/orchestra changes with the second song, and again
with the third, yes, I would vote with my feet, if I could,
but it's a festival
and there are tangueras with whom I would like to dance,
but the music is not contributing
but instead is getting in the way!
DJ Dave de Denver
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 19:31:24 -0400
From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] cortinas, conventions + such
To: dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com, TANGO-L@mit.edu,
curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar
>Dear Lucia y todos,
>
>Alas, though that was true in B.A. in the milongas I attended,
>it is not true of several of the North American deejays Neil listed,
>and makes for a FRUSTRATING DISAPPOINTMENT with the music played
>by those several,
>and yes, Manuel, I have mentioned my disappointment to a couple of them
>directly, but to no avail.
Dave, I undersatnd your disappointment. But DJs just play waht they want. Is
this a common occurrence? Do the "well know" travelling DJs play bad music
as a rule? Obviously, I don't know exactly who you are talking about, so we
might be talking apples/oranges here. But I've heard several DJs who travel
to festivals and these were generally quite good. Of course, I have heard
others who basically left me cold. Still, I'm only defending those who I
think are competent, and there are a number of them.... Naturally, everybody
can have a bad day. I admit that I've had some blaaahh days myself...
>To have the second, and only the second, song of a tanda be
>D'Agostino+Vargas, is extremely frustrating.
>To have all four songs be from different orchestras is
>abominable.
This is absolutely true. I agree with you totally. For me, D'Agostino w/
Vargas is absolutely sacred and not to be trifled with. I hate it, just hate
it when DJs mix the classic D'Agostino with the later orquestra with other
singers during the same tanda. It literally makes me want to scream. I also
hate it when the tandas are a mish mash of styles and eras, even if it's the
same orchestra. Please don't get me going about mixing orquestras.... (yes
it can be done, but only in extremely rare instances)
>
>I try to choose a partner for the music.
>
>When the style/orchestra changes with the second song, and again
>with the third, yes, I would vote with my feet, if I could,
>but it's a festival
>and there are tangueras with whom I would like to dance,
>but the music is not contributing
>but instead is getting in the way!
I feel for you. I don't believe anyone should be subjected to suffering like
that. Particularly during a festival. I will say that in my experience, I've
heard more better music and better DJing than bad. Specially in most of the
festivals I've been to. Granted, I've sufferend through abominable music at
more than one famous festival. I agree that there are some awful DJs
perpetrating throughout the land, but I don't think it's my place to cast
aspersions on the entire genre because of the bad apples.
I have very strong opinions about what's good danceable music and what's
garbage. I rarely play anything that's not emminently danceable tango music
from the golden era. I also feel very strongly about swing, salsa , merengue
and Cha cha cha. There is plenty of excellent music in those genres too and
I don't understand why some DJs play the most atrocious, cheesy, smarmy
examples of that other music too. Generally those are the same DJs that play
the worst tango music. I actually believe that they have a special, pervert
talent to choose and arrange the worst music at the worst times.
My solution is to avoid their milongas and events at all costs. I don't have
a personal animus towards these people. Many of them are quite nice, etc.
It's just that I didn't sign up to suffer through bad music. Sometimes maybe
you'll visit Atlanta and get a sample of good DJing by yours truly and other
competent local DJs. Then we can talk about this topic at length (-:
Manuel
