5289 The Cross :: To unwind, or not to unwind, that is
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:26:45 -0600
From: "Alex" <alex@tangofuego.us>
Subject: [Tango-L] The Cross :: To unwind, or not to unwind, that is
the question...
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
<200711141727.lAEHRGtC015698@omr11.networksolutionsemail.com>
What's the general consensus...after leading a follower to the cross (with a
juicy pause immediately after the cross)...and transferring her weight to
her left foot...should she keep her right foot behind (in the crossed
postion) (not "unwinding")...or should she "unwind" (uncross) her right foot
and bring it to the collected position?
My personal opinion is that unwinding/uncrossing, executed in a certain way,
can be much more aesthetically pleasing...both in feeling and
observation...plus, the follower is then "more" ready to take a forward step
(in extremely rare cases - like a practica) or a side step (more common).
When her right foot is crossed behind, it makes a forward or side step
awkward if not impossible, and the only option is a back step (for her).
Granted, this does not apply to the cross without a juicy pause, when you
walk right through the cross, there is no time to unwind....there is the
weight transfer and then the walk out in a back step...
This also does not delve into the subject of "led" unwinding options...
What does everyone think - when in a "pause" just after the cross - should a
follower unwind on her own or not?
Alex
P.S. Now that I have finished this...I know what the majority will say...
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:41:50 +0000 (GMT)
From: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Cross :: To unwind, or not to unwind, that
is the question...
To: alex@tangofuego.us, tango-l@mit.edu
>(not "unwinding")...or should she "unwind" (uncross) her right foot
>My personal opinion is that unwinding/uncrossing, executed in a certain way,
>can be much more aesthetically pleasing...
>no time to unwind....
>"led" unwinding options...
>should a follower unwind on her own or not?
Alex
P.S. Now that I have finished this...I know what the majority will say...
Is this a wind-up?
Dani >:-)))))
>(not "unwinding")...or should she "unwind" (uncross) her right foot
>My personal opinion is that unwinding/uncrossing, executed in a certain way,
>can be much more aesthetically pleasing...
>no time to unwind....
>"led" unwinding options...
>should a follower unwind on her own or not?
Alex
P.S. Now that I have finished this...I know what the majority will say...
Is this a wind-up?
Dani >:-)))))
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:01:47 -0800 (PST)
From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Cross :: To unwind, or not to unwind, that
is the question...
To: alex@tangofuego.us, tango-l@mit.edu
Alex:
"When her right foot is crossed behind, it makes a forward or side step
awkward if not impossible, and the only option is a back step (for her)."
I'd have to disagree with this statement, but it depends to a large amount
on how well your partner, and you dance. Her right leg, which is behind
her left, ideally should be available to follow your lead.
You can play with this yourself by standing in the "crossed" position. If all
of your weight is on your left foot, (as it should be if it was a weight change
onto that foot) the right foot and leg is free to move: first a bit backwards,
then to your right as it clears your right heel. From there you have addtional
possibilities, including just collecting.
So, you could say this involves moving the foot back, but not taking a step
back. These kinds of movements can add a lot of variety to your dance.
The woman does this same sequence on her own if she "unwinds" without
being led.
You should also be able to lead it, given enough connection and technique
on both of your parts.
What is it the majority is supposed to say?
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Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 13:27:01 -0600
From: "Alex" <alex@tangofuego.us>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Cross :: To unwind, or not to unwind, that
is the question...
To: "'steve pastor'" <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<200711141927.lAEJRWxh006810@omr1.networksolutionsemail.com>
Steve:
As I completed my post, what you wrote below dawned on me ... eventually (as
more responses come in) I expect the majority to say that the uncrossing
should be led ... or not led (led to "stay" crossed if you will) ...
depending on the multitude of possibilities, the individual dancers, the
music being danced to and musicality of the dancers, other dancers in close
proximity and on and on ... just like everything else in tango ...
The point is, I realized the uncrossing should be led, the follower should
be attuned to the leader's intention to lead/suggest a side (or back) step,
or an unwinding pivot, or whatever ... and uncross if she needs to ...
Thanks for your thoughts ... it will be interesting to get more from the
list ...
Alex
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:44:51 -0800
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Cross :: To unwind, or not to unwind, that
is the question...
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Interesting..
I'll try to lead the forward step without "unwind" and see what happens.
Great idea, worth to try, thank you!
Igor.
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:55:31 +1100
From: Gary Barnes <garybarn@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Cross :: To unwind, or not to unwind, that
is the question...
Marking the woman to come forward while she is not 'unwound' = she
will lean but cannot step.
Unless she has 'learnt' that she must unwind herself....
my 2c
Gary
On 15/11/2007, at 10:44 AM, Igor Polk wrote:
> Interesting..
>
> I'll try to lead the forward step without "unwind" and see what
> happens.
>
> Great idea, worth to try, thank you!
>
> Igor.
>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:37:13 -0700
From: "Cammie " <milonguera@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Cross :: To unwind, or not to unwind, that
is the question...
As a follower, I have never uncrossed myself, nor heard that suggested in
any class I have ever taken.
However, a very common problem for followers is when leaders try to lead
them into a front ocho from the cross without inviting the follower to pivot
first. It is extremely awkward being lead into a front ocho without the
pivot. Cammie.
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 22:37:30 -0500
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Cross :: To unwind, or not to unwind, that
is the question...
Thank you Cammie. On the 8th response to the original query, someone has finally mentioned the pivot before the lady's forward step. Of
course the unwind must be led before any forward or side step is led. And the unwind is led by a body turn to the left. For a Forward
Ocho, this would also include a pivot while, for a side step, the body turn should be sufficient. Of course, the lady can always uncross
herself but then it becomes a lady's adornment and, since the man won't be aware of this, he should always lead the unwind.
Keith, HK
On Thu Nov 15 8:37 , "Cammie " sent:
>As a follower, I have never uncrossed myself, nor heard that suggested in
>any class I have ever taken.
>
>However, a very common problem for followers is when leaders try to lead
>them into a front ocho from the cross without inviting the follower to pivot
>first. It is extremely awkward being lead into a front ocho without the
>pivot. Cammie.
>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2007 15:27:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Cross :: To unwind, or not to unwind, that
is the question...
Hi Alex,
Here's my two cents worth of being a follower. I initially
always kept crossed until I was told it was okay to unwind
myself. I've been unwinding now for many years and it has
NEVER been a problem with any of my dance partners. That
indicates to me that unwinding after the cross isn't a
problem in the actual dance.
The unwinding after the cross also FEELS much better, looks
better, and is way more comfortable than forcing my legs to
stay cross after I've transferred my weight. Unwinding is
the body's natural response to realign the bone structure.
If the man did not want me unwind (e.g, he wants to uncross
me), then it's his job to keep me from fully collecting.
In other words, I unwind when he leads me to fully transfer
my weight. Otherwise, I do not unwind and he can still
uncross me.
There have been instances in which I have been in a cross
position and the man has lead me to fully transfer my
weight from one leg to the other and I didn't unwind. In
these instances, I didn't feel a need to fully unwind my
spine (and hence, unwind the cross).
Hope this helps,
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Alex <alex@tangofuego.us> wrote:
> Steve:
>
> As I completed my post, what you wrote below dawned on me
> ... eventually (as
> more responses come in) I expect the majority to say that
> the uncrossing
> should be led ... or not led (led to "stay" crossed if
> you will) ...
> depending on the multitude of possibilities, the
> individual dancers, the
> music being danced to and musicality of the dancers,
> other dancers in close
> proximity and on and on ... just like everything else in
> tango ...
>
> The point is, I realized the uncrossing should be led,
> the follower should
> be attuned to the leader's intention to lead/suggest a
> side (or back) step,
> or an unwinding pivot, or whatever ... and uncross if she
> needs to ...
>
> Thanks for your thoughts ... it will be interesting to
> get more from the
> list ...
>
> Alex
>
> From: steve pastor [mailto:tang0man2005@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 1:02 PM
> To: alex@tangofuego.us; tango-l@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Cross :: To unwind, or not to
> unwind, that is the
> question...
>
> Alex:
> ?
> "When her right foot is crossed behind, it makes a
> forward or side step
> awkward if not impossible, and the only option is a back
> step (for her)."
> I'd have to disagree with this statement, but it depends
> to a large amount
> on how well your partner, and you?dance. Her right leg,
> which is behind
> her left, ideally should be available to follow your
> lead.
> ?
> You can play with this yourself by standing in the
> "crossed" position. If
> all
> of your weight is on your left foot, (as it should be if
> it was a weight
> change
> onto that foot) the right foot and leg is free to move:
> first a bit
> backwards,
> then to your right as it clears your right heel. From
> there you have
> addtional
> possibilities, including just collecting.
> ?
> So, you could say this involves moving the foot back, but
> not taking a step
> back. These kinds of movements can add a lot of variety
> to your dance.
> ?
> The woman does this same sequence on her own if she
> "unwinds" without
> being led.
> ?
> You should also be able to lead it, given enough
> connection and technique
> on both of your parts.
> ?
> What is it?the majority is supposed to say?
>
>
>
>
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