1257  Detective work

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 18:42:52 -0400
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Detective work

Lucy says "The message from "Mary Niclos" containing a reference to dancers
with shady reputations originated from the same ip address as the
"el pibe" postings: 66-108-176-254.nyc.rr.com (66.108.176.254)
Looks like a Road Runner dial-up account in the New York City area."

I am not surprised at all.
I have been in the tango world for at least 10 years, during most of this
time I had the chance to interact with tango aficionados from all over the
world. Almost without exception they love tango and its origins in
Argentinean culture. Some of my friends have been coming to Buenos Aires for
the last 10-15 years.

When it comes to the Tango-L list, generally speaking, we have the same
situation. Over the years I only found two people that due to personal
reasons (which I ignore) hate everything Argentinean while loving tango...
What an ambivalent feeling to have to live with! It is like loving the Rose
flower but hating the rose bush. One cannot exist without the other.

These two people live: one on the west coast, he has been silent for a long
time. The other lives in New York City.
I and some of my friends suspect that he is behind the whole "El Pibe"
Avellaneda affaire.
He used to write all the time humiliating, attacking, putting down
Argentineans in any possible way.
Finally I confronted him, he has been silent ever since, for his only talent
was to attack Argentineans.
When I am abroad, like I usually do during the winter he raises his head in
subtle ways till my return.
This is not an exception. I am certain that he writes under different names
and also his own.
He has participated in this discussion using his own name.

Good Job Lucy. You are a good detective.

Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 19:15:28 -0400
From: rtara <rtara@MAINE.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: Detective work

Thank heavens for these little scandals. Without them the Tango-L would just
fade way into an academic oblivion of technical blather about the importance
of the salida, whether men should dance together, so-called "fancy steps" or
milonga etiquette.

Thanks El Pibe - you've provided us all with some badly needed end of winter
gossip to enliven our otherwise dreary existence.

Caveat Emptor!

Robin Tara

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 08:35:29 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Detective work

Whoever did it, I must say, I find it much scarier to see to what means some
people would resort to defame tango teachers from Argentina, than the soap
operalike contents of this obviously fictive "correspondence". Besides,
apart from the presented "Argentine" behaviour, which Italian woman would be
silly enough to sign her letters with "tu bambina" ?
IMO, it would be more fruitful to analyse what motives the creator of this
work might have.

Astrid

Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 13:39:14 -0400
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Detective work 2

I went to Argentina this winter as always to rest, dance tango, enjoy the
atmosphere, the people, the wine, the food, etc.
I spent most of the five months by the sea shore in Mar del Plata. During
that period I decided not to read the Tango-L
postings.
When I returned I found over 1000 notes, among them the "El Pibe" letters. I
discarded without reading them but after some of the notes that were coming
I decided to read Lucy's page where they were detailed.

A brief analysis of the letters showed the following characteristics:

1- The objective of publishing them was to harm "El Pibe". I do not know
him, I had never heard of him till I read the letters.
2- The letters were originally written between April 4 and April 8 2003 and
published around May 5, 2003.
3- They all were initially written in English and then translated into
Spanish/Italian. The English version was written properly but the
Spanish/Italian versions had numerous orthographic and grammatical errors.
They could be the product, at times of an Italian person mixing her native
Italian with Spanish and at times of a computer translation of an English
original. The Italian translation shows in between parenthesis the Spanish
equivalent of some words. The perpetrator was obviously careless thinking
that those that were going to read them would only be interested in the
English version. He almost got away with it.
It was necessary that somebody conversant with the three languages and also
familiar with computer translators read the letters.
4- Carlos Lima writes on the subject before my arrival, he states that he
knows the girl who fell victim of the tango teacher in question. One should
ask *victim of what?.??? The victimization is not clear from reading the
letters except perhaps for being a tango teacher in New York who was not
paid the $30 per lesson given.
5- I do not dance in New York, I do not know what the Tango World there is
like.
Sarah La Rocca seldom writes but when she does is always in support of
Carlos Lima, are they friends?
The Tango world she describes has nothing to do with the one I know.
After reading Carlos Limas' letter where he acknowledges to know the alleged
victim and taking into account his long history of bashing Portenios, I
suspect that he is part of all this.
6- I receive a note where I am told that Carlos Lima knows a lady (probably
Italian) who dances with him and also teaches tango. The sender is
suspicious of him as well.
7- Mary Nicolas sends a letter where she quotes and agrees with Carlos Lima.
She ends saying"Horacio is not the first tango
teacher with a shady reputation that has come from Argentina and he will
certainly not be the last. If anything the letters should teach us how to
look out for these characters in the future so we can protect each other in
the tango community." The first time the expression "Shady reputation"
appears.
This makes me believe that Mary Nicolas could be another one of Carlos
Lima's aliases.
8-* Lucy Lynch discovers that the sender of "El Pibe" letters to Tango-L and
Mary Nicolas used the same computer.
she says"The message from "Mary Niclos" containing a reference to dancers
with shady reputations originated from the same ip address as the
"el pibe" postings: 66-108-176-254.nyc.rr.com (66.108.176.254)
Looks like a Road Runner dial-up account in the New York City area."
9- I receive a note from a friend who also tels me is a friend of Carlos
Lima.
The message says" Carlos Lima has written to me using an E-Mail ending
in "nyc.rr.com".

***10- The confession.
Questions are the letters real or fictitious? Are the letters an invention
of a duo bent on attacking somebody else?
Does the gay part tend to involve "El Pibe" with somebody else? Is this real
or fiction?
There was any victim, if so who?
What do you think?

This is long enough so I will discuss The Confession in another note.
The sea shore in Mar del Plata was: blue, sunny sky, warm sand, beautiful
blue water, little waves.
Did I return too soon? Probably not. :)))