3374 Aron is right
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:43:15 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Aron is right
Dear tango-L members,
I think that Aron is absolutely right and wish to
congratulate him for his great service to the tango community in general and
to this list in particular by exposing Alberto Paz.
Those of us that have been members of this list will remember the times when
this Character and some of his bullies (probably his own aliases) were
attacking, abusing and humiliating every member of this list. While living
in San Francisco he exerted his magic on the tango scene in such a way that
pretty soon he was not welcome in any milonga and had to migrate to New
Orleans.
He abandoned our list and founded his own ATOF.
As you will see below he continues being himself .
You may read one of his recent notes where he recognizes as being a bully.
In this particular message he uses paragraphs that he repeated in some of
his notes signed under Hector Maselli.
Ruben Trebalca, under his own name and also under aliases expressed similar
thoughts as those of Hector Maselli. I sent a private note to Ruben telling
him I new he was writing under Carlos Amok, Pablo and other aliases. Ruben
felt the necessity to say that Carlos Amok and Pablo were using his
computer. He claims t be frank and honest but he talks using aliases.
...in the meantime a note appeared in Tango-L calling me by my full name and
professional titles followed by about ten Argentine slang words insulting
me. The note was signed by Ruben Trebalca. Ruben was astonished because he
had not written such note and apologized to me by private mail.
I detected the message had been written by Alberto Paz but decided to ignore
him... till today.
Now he was caught for what he is.
Please get acquainted with his style.
On Mar 7, 2005, at 7:42 PM, Gary Barnes wrote: -and this is followed by
Alberto Paz's answer:
>Gary Barnes says:
>Dear all
>
>Apologies, the message which started as below:
>
>>Subject: Re: [ATOF] Re: Jazz and Tango (Was twisting follows)
>>
>>{off-list}
>
>was, obviously, intended to be addressed privately. Please delete it
>unread.
>
>I have deleted it from the public record on the website.
>
>Gary
Alberto answers:
Why Gary?
Show the world the real Gary Barnes.
A man shouldn't be afraid to voice an opinion.
Even when it is an underhanded attack or an indirect insult aimed to
vent the frustration of being confronted with dissenting viewpoints and
lacking the depth to debate further.
>If you consider foul language, personal abuse etc to be rude, this
>list has
>approximately one rude person,
Make that two now Gary.
See, if you try hard, you too can be a tangoman!
>On this list, it seems either you agree with Alberto, or are abused by
>him,
>or keep quiet. I understand Tango-L was like that some years ago.
How about a third possibility?
---#Here he states what he signed under Hector Maselli:---
I can't imagine how hard it must be to hear an argentine voice that can
read and write in a couple of languages and not to get scared by the
accent of argentine english rebuking the litany of attacks aimed to
trivialize and minimize the cultural heritage of an entire nation, but
I can assure you Gary that insulting you or abusing you is far from my
intentions. As a matter of fact, it is out of the greatness and
generosity of being argentine and understanding the tango better than
you'll ever do, that you get the benefit of a free education, which of
course you are under no obligation to accept. That is a right you have.
"From the gutter to the stars, people are, what people are..." -- Kinky
Friedman
Alberto
Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:52:09 -0400
From: Clint Rauscher <clint@AXIALPARTNERS.COM>
Subject: Re: Aron is right
Hi All,
Since I am sure he is still monitoring this list... "Hi Paz"
Glad to hear that other people feel the same way about this guy. I posted
some messages to his Yahoo group (ATOF) not knowing anything about him. His
responses were insulting and rude. He is truly a sorry excuse for a human
being.
I also love the fact that he seems to question everyone's manhood and there
he is, using an alias, pretending to be a woman.
Normally I would not participate, nor condone such personal attacks but this
guy is so outrageous that I think it is important to expose him for what he
is so that when people stumble across him (or trip over him) that they know
who and what he is and can dismiss him and his ideas for the crap they are.
Thanks,
Clint
clint@axialpartners.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
> [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Sergio Vandekier
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:43 PM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [TANGO-L] Aron is right
>
>
> Dear tango-L members,
>
> I think that Aron is absolutely
> right and wish to
> congratulate him for his great service to the tango community
> in general and
> to this list in particular by exposing Alberto Paz.
>
> Those of us that have been members of this list will remember
> the times when
> this Character and some of his bullies (probably his own aliases) were
> attacking, abusing and humiliating every member of this list.
> While living
> in San Francisco he exerted his magic on the tango scene in
> such a way that
> pretty soon he was not welcome in any milonga and had to
> migrate to New
> Orleans.
>
> He abandoned our list and founded his own ATOF.
> As you will see below he continues being himself .
>
> You may read one of his recent notes where he recognizes as
> being a bully.
> In this particular message he uses paragraphs that he
> repeated in some of
> his notes signed under Hector Maselli.
>
> Ruben Trebalca, under his own name and also under aliases
> expressed similar
> thoughts as those of Hector Maselli. I sent a private note
> to Ruben telling
> him I new he was writing under Carlos Amok, Pablo and other
> aliases. Ruben
> felt the necessity to say that Carlos Amok and Pablo were using his
> computer. He claims t be frank and honest but he talks using aliases.
>
> ...in the meantime a note appeared in Tango-L calling me by
> my full name and
> professional titles followed by about ten Argentine slang
> words insulting
> me. The note was signed by Ruben Trebalca. Ruben was
> astonished because he
> had not written such note and apologized to me by private mail.
>
> I detected the message had been written by Alberto Paz but
> decided to ignore
> him... till today.
> Now he was caught for what he is.
>
> Please get acquainted with his style.
>
> On Mar 7, 2005, at 7:42 PM, Gary Barnes wrote: -and this is
> followed by
> Alberto Paz's answer:
>
> >Gary Barnes says:
> >Dear all
> >
> >Apologies, the message which started as below:
> >
> >>Subject: Re: [ATOF] Re: Jazz and Tango (Was twisting follows)
> >>
> >>{off-list}
> >
> >was, obviously, intended to be addressed privately. Please delete it
> >unread.
> >
> >I have deleted it from the public record on the website.
> >
> >Gary
>
> Alberto answers:
>
> Why Gary?
> Show the world the real Gary Barnes.
> A man shouldn't be afraid to voice an opinion.
> Even when it is an underhanded attack or an indirect insult aimed to
> vent the frustration of being confronted with dissenting
> viewpoints and
> lacking the depth to debate further.
>
> >If you consider foul language, personal abuse etc to be rude, this
> >list has
> >approximately one rude person,
>
> Make that two now Gary.
> See, if you try hard, you too can be a tangoman!
>
> >On this list, it seems either you agree with Alberto, or are
> abused by
> >him,
> >or keep quiet. I understand Tango-L was like that some years ago.
>
> How about a third possibility?
>
> ---#Here he states what he signed under Hector Maselli:---
>
> I can't imagine how hard it must be to hear an argentine
> voice that can
> read and write in a couple of languages and not to get scared by the
> accent of argentine english rebuking the litany of attacks aimed to
> trivialize and minimize the cultural heritage of an entire nation, but
> I can assure you Gary that insulting you or abusing you is far from my
> intentions. As a matter of fact, it is out of the greatness and
> generosity of being argentine and understanding the tango better than
> you'll ever do, that you get the benefit of a free education, which of
> course you are under no obligation to accept. That is a right
> you have.
>
> "From the gutter to the stars, people are, what people
> are..." -- Kinky
> Friedman
>
> Alberto
>
> Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan
> from McAfee.
>
> ---------
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
> ---------
>
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 07:37:10 -0700
From: Jean-Pierre Sighe <jpsighe@SIGHES.COM>
Subject: Re: Aron is right
Sergio, Clint and Aron...Our Saviors.
Now that you're through with your intrepid great detective work, what should
we do with your own insults ??? Please, advise.
Let's suppose, for the sake of argument that everything you said about the
person you name Alberto Paz...Hector Maselli...Anita...etc... is true (he's
probably also named Papaya somewhere else...I don't believe your crap...but
let's pretend we are convinced by your great investigation). What difference
does it make that someone has different names? Is it necessary to actually
KNOW the person to react to their posting(s) ? I thought the debates and
exchanges were based on the ideas and thoughts expressed. When you post
something, I don't give a damn about the color of your hair, if I'm going to
challenge it or comment on it.
It seems to me that when you choose to post something, you are setting foot
into the "arena" and must be confident enough to defend your position. The
problem with you guys is that as soon as someone posts some straightforward
thoughts that contradict your own thought, you immediately call out for your
mamma to come help you out. You forget that YOU chose to do your posting.
What a thin skin you must have!
The person with several names is actually VERY sophisticated (probably an
excellent Tango dancer...necessary quality to be a good one) and must be
having a lot of fun reading your whining. Definitely that person's mind
displays more intelligence than yours. May be that's your jealousy problem
right there... Hum!... I might have touched on something here...
Perhaps I should expose your buddy Aron by showing to the list the
unsolicited e-mail this idiot (yes...yes...yes... this is not a typo, I said
it! It's not an insult but rather the ONLY proper description of the
behavior exuded by this guy in that e-mail) had the audacity to send to me
in private as if we were some kind of acquaintances. Being rude is the least
that could be said... The content was actually replete with insults all over
the place. Of course, I took care of business!... I'm not complaining about
his insults. I'm rather amused by the childish whining postings. Grow up,
the three Pharisees, for God sake's!!!
I do not need your warning about someone on the list. I'm an adult, am
intelligent and can take care of myself. Please, keep your "service" where I
think it belongs...Thank you!
Jean-Pierre
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:52 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Aron is right
Hi All,
Since I am sure he is still monitoring this list... "Hi Paz"
Glad to hear that other people feel the same way about this guy. I posted
some messages to his Yahoo group (ATOF) not knowing anything about him. His
responses were insulting and rude. He is truly a sorry excuse for a human
being.
I also love the fact that he seems to question everyone's manhood and there
he is, using an alias, pretending to be a woman.
Normally I would not participate, nor condone such personal attacks but this
guy is so outrageous that I think it is important to expose him for what he
is so that when people stumble across him (or trip over him) that they know
who and what he is and can dismiss him and his ideas for the crap they are.
Thanks,
Clint
clint@axialpartners.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
> [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Sergio Vandekier
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 1:43 PM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [TANGO-L] Aron is right
>
>
> Dear tango-L members,
>
> I think that Aron is absolutely
> right and wish to
> congratulate him for his great service to the tango community
> in general and
> to this list in particular by exposing Alberto Paz.
>
> Those of us that have been members of this list will remember
> the times when
> this Character and some of his bullies (probably his own aliases) were
> attacking, abusing and humiliating every member of this list.
> While living
Keep unwanted email out.
Visit www.spamsubtract.com for more information.
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:30:52 -0500
From: "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
Subject: Re: Aron is right
Jean-Pierre Sighe wrote:
>Sergio, Clint and Aron...Our Saviors.
>
>Now that you're through with your intrepid great detective work, what should
>we do with your own insults ??? Please, advise.
>
Factual reports, by their nature, aren't insults.
>Let's suppose, for the sake of argument that everything you said about the
>person you name Alberto Paz...Hector Maselli...Anita...etc... is true (he's
>probably also named Papaya somewhere else...I don't believe your crap...but
>let's pretend we are convinced by your great investigation). What difference
>does it make that someone has different names? Is it necessary to actually
>KNOW the person to react to their posting(s)? I thought the debates and
>exchanges were based on the ideas and thoughts expressed. When you post
>something, I don't give a damn about the color of your hair, if I'm going to
>challenge it or comment on it.
>
A series of postings resorting to name calling under several aliases, in
itself conveys information, which we can also respond to. And just like
most human communication has little to do with words, the style, tone
and context of emails themselves lie open for dissection as content.
In this case, knowing that Mr. Paz can count on you as a friend and
student,
and he would know you as a professional musician from Cameroon, with France
being only a waystation on your way to the USA puts things in a very
different
light. If Mr. Paz indeed posted as A. Taniche and Hector Maselli,
reasonable
people would consider those posts outright lies.
That also begs the question: If you are Alberto Paz's friend and student,
why do you not defend him on those terms?
>It seems to me that when you choose to post something, you are setting foot
>into the "arena" and must be confident enough to defend your position. The
>problem with you guys is that as soon as someone posts some straightforward
>thoughts that contradict your own thought, you immediately call out for your
>mamma to come help you out. You forget that YOU chose to do your posting.
>What a thin skin you must have!
>
"Straightforward thoughts that contradict" don't offend, its the inability
to contradict without slinging crap that many, if not most people find
objectionable.
>The person with several names is actually VERY sophisticated (probably an
>excellent Tango dancer...necessary quality to be a good one) and must be
>having a lot of fun reading your whining. Definitely that person's mind
>displays more intelligence than yours. May be that's your jealousy problem
>right there... Hum!... I might have touched on something here...
>
Posting crude insults under another email address using the same computer
and the same Internet provider shows no more intelligence and creativity
than picking up a branch off the forest floor.
It's probably a good thing that you don't know what real Internet
sophistication looks like.
>Perhaps I should expose your buddy Aron by showing to the list the
>unsolicited e-mail this idiot (yes...yes...yes... this is not a typo, I said
>it! It's not an insult but rather the ONLY proper description of the
>behavior exuded by this guy in that e-mail) had the audacity to send to me
>in private as if we were some kind of acquaintances.
>
You post to an email list, you become an online acquaintance for everyone
on that list and you open yourself up to private emails from them. The
Internet has been that way for the entire 12 years I've been on it.
So what's your problem?
>Being rude is the least
>that could be said... The content was actually replete with insults all over
>the place. Of course, I took care of business!... I'm not complaining about
>his insults. I'm rather amused by the childish whining postings. Grow up,
>the three Pharisees, for God sake's!!!
>
You sound angry and bitter. So does the person posting as Hector
Maselli/A Taniche. Birds of a feather in fact.
>I do not need your warning about someone on the list. I'm an adult, am
>intelligent and can take care of myself. Please, keep your "service" where I
>think it belongs...Thank you!
>
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Aron is right.
--
Christopher L. Everett
Chief Technology Officer www.medbanner.com
MedBanner, Inc. www.physemp.com
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:41:01 -0700
From: Jean-Pierre Sighe <jpsighe@SIGHES.COM>
Subject: Re: Aron is right
OOOOpss! Pardon me!
I had forgotten to include the other...guy, Christopher in my posting.
> If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Sir, I AM in the kitchen and I just looove the heat! Actually, I can teach
you a lot about the heat...please, believe me !
You the Pharisee, is the one whining...not me! Le dibat
contradictoire...j'adore!!! . The whiner is you Sir!. So, read and apply
your own maxim...get out of the kitchen!!!!!!!
Jean-Pierre
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 2:31 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Aron is right
Jean-Pierre Sighe wrote:
>Sergio, Clint and Aron...Our Saviors.
>
>Now that you're through with your intrepid great detective work, what
should
>we do with your own insults ??? Please, advise.
>
Factual reports, by their nature, aren't insults.
>Let's suppose, for the sake of argument that everything you said about the
>person you name Alberto Paz...Hector Maselli...Anita...etc... is true (he's
>probably also named Papaya somewhere else...I don't believe your crap...but
>let's pretend we are convinced by your great investigation). What
difference
>does it make that someone has different names? Is it necessary to actually
>KNOW the person to react to their posting(s)? I thought the debates and
>exchanges were based on the ideas and thoughts expressed. When you post
>something, I don't give a damn about the color of your hair, if I'm going
to
>challenge it or comment on it.
>
A series of postings resorting to name calling under several aliases, in
itself conveys information, which we can also respond to. And just like
most human communication has little to do with words, the style, tone
and context of emails themselves lie open for dissection as content.
In this case, knowing that Mr. Paz can count on you as a friend and
student,
and he would know you as a professional musician from Cameroon, with France
being only a waystation on your way to the USA puts things in a very
different
light. If Mr. Paz indeed posted as A. Taniche and Hector Maselli,
reasonable
people would consider those posts outright lies.
That also begs the question: If you are Alberto Paz's friend and student,
why do you not defend him on those terms?
>It seems to me that when you choose to post something, you are setting foot
>into the "arena" and must be confident enough to defend your position. The
>problem with you guys is that as soon as someone posts some straightforward
>thoughts that contradict your own thought, you immediately call out for
your
>mamma to come help you out. You forget that YOU chose to do your posting.
>What a thin skin you must have!
>
"Straightforward thoughts that contradict" don't offend, its the inability
to contradict without slinging crap that many, if not most people find
objectionable.
>The person with several names is actually VERY sophisticated (probably an
>excellent Tango dancer...necessary quality to be a good one) and must be
>having a lot of fun reading your whining. Definitely that person's mind
>displays more intelligence than yours. May be that's your jealousy problem
>right there... Hum!... I might have touched on something here...
>
Posting crude insults under another email address using the same computer
and the same Internet provider shows no more intelligence and creativity
than picking up a branch off the forest floor.
It's probably a good thing that you don't know what real Internet
sophistication looks like.
>Perhaps I should expose your buddy Aron by showing to the list the
>unsolicited e-mail this idiot (yes...yes...yes... this is not a typo, I
said
>it! It's not an insult but rather the ONLY proper description of the
>behavior exuded by this guy in that e-mail) had the audacity to send to me
>in private as if we were some kind of acquaintances.
>
You post to an email list, you become an online acquaintance for everyone
on that list and you open yourself up to private emails from them. The
Internet has been that way for the entire 12 years I've been on it.
So what's your problem?
>Being rude is the least
>that could be said... The content was actually replete with insults all
over
>the place. Of course, I took care of business!... I'm not complaining about
>his insults. I'm rather amused by the childish whining postings. Grow up,
>the three Pharisees, for God sake's!!!
>
You sound angry and bitter. So does the person posting as Hector
Maselli/A Taniche. Birds of a feather in fact.
>I do not need your warning about someone on the list. I'm an adult, am
>intelligent and can take care of myself. Please, keep your "service" where
I
>think it belongs...Thank you!
>
If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Aron is right.
--
Christopher L. Everett
Chief Technology Officer www.medbanner.com
MedBanner, Inc. www.physemp.com
Keep unwanted email out.
Visit www.spamsubtract.com for more information.
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:50:03 -0700
From: Jean-Pierre Sighe <jpsighe@SIGHES.COM>
Subject: Re: Aron is right
Christopher,
By the way, Alberto Paz, since you mention his name, is an EXCELLENT Tango
teacher. I'm forever grateful for what he thought me as my very first
teacher. Those of you just starting your Tango journey, I wish you to have
the same luck I had with Alberto Paz, in meeting a real teacher who will
give you the foundation you need in order to understand more complex things
later.
I have never had to unlearn anything taught to me by the gentleman. Yes, he
is a great teacher. Teaching is definitely an Art...That Art is not easily
acquired.
Jean-Pierre
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