2428 Beginners on the Dancefloor
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 22:07:05 -0500
From: Gibson Batch <gibsonbatch@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Beginners on the Dancefloor
Lois's recent comments yields yet another delicate point.
If you see a woman who obviously is enthralled with the music and mystery of
Tango, but doesn't know a step of it and is wearing snow boots (winter in
Minnesota is very long), is it OK to ask her to dance and give her a
mini-lesson?
Sometimes we have more men than women at public forums, so I look outside
the group for 'recruits'. I find that some women are natural at Tango, and
many of my new partners are doing ochos and more by the end of the dance. I
agree it is bad form to give others a lesson while dancing, but to invite
new a person for her first Tango dance is an exception in my mind.
After the dance (one is usually enough for both of us), I finish by pointing
out one of several teachers in the room, and then ask her girlfriend(s) at
her table for the next dance. Sometimes this practice is disaster, but
sometimes it is very nice. You never know what will happen - which for me
is tremendously exciting.
So, Lois, maybe the men were being too careful with your guest by not asking
her to dance. Too bad - they lost their chance.
Zorro
Minneapolis
Premium!
Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 18:41:41 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beginners on the Dancefloor
Gibson Batch (Zorro) writes:
> Lois's recent comments yields yet another delicate point.
>
> If you see a woman who obviously is enthralled with the music and mystery of
> Tango, but doesn't know a step of it and is wearing snow boots (winter in
> Minnesota is very long), is it OK to ask her to dance and give her a
> mini-lesson?
Please tell us you're not serious, and that you're
just fishing us for your personal amusement. It's
a lot easier to killfile trollers than killfile clowns
teaching on the dance floor.
Huck
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 01:53:10 -0700
From: David <pachelbels_canon_in_d_major@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Beginners on the Dancefloor
> If you see a woman who obviously is enthralled with
> the music and mystery of Tango... is it OK to ask
her
> to dance and give her a mini-lesson?
Zorro,
Sometimes it can be "ok". However, it depends *a lot*
on you.
I guess I would say that you should ask a sample of
women followers you know if *they* think it would be
bad for to do this.
I'm pretty sure one can create very nice dance
experiences with raw beginners on a dance floor, but I
think it takes an unusual combination of both skill at
dance, and even more importantly, a certain ...
empathy for the person (a raw beginner) who you are
dancing with. It really has to be kept in mind that
the goal *is not* to teach them to dance, but rather
to have fun (both you and her).
Q: Should I ask the raw beginner and give a mini
lesson?
A: Yes, it can be done (very successfully). No, not
many should. Ask 1 dozen followers (of different
skill levels) with whom you dance. If more than 1
says no, then don't.
Best,
David
P.S. You'll have to forgive me for disagreeing with
you Huck *grins*. I'll be graduating in less than a
month, so we'll be able to argue in person! I'm
excited ;)
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 03:03:47 -0700
From: Tango Dancer <tango_1908@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Beginners on the Dancefloor
Quoting David <pachelbels_canon_in_d_major@YAHOO.COM>:
> > If you see a woman who obviously is enthralled with
> > the music and mystery of Tango... is it OK to ask
> her
> > to dance and give her a mini-lesson?
>
> Zorro,
>
> Sometimes it can be "ok". However, it depends *a lot*
> on you.
>
> I guess I would say that you should ask a sample of
> women followers you know if *they* think it would be
> bad for to do this.
I agree that some times it is ok... And it is ok only if you are not in a milonga (e.g.. Practica)
It is not really polite to teach tango in a milonga (teaching a beginner, or generally indicating to a follower what you think she/he should do). Furthermore it is unrespectful to cut the flow of the ronda and block all the dancers behind you...
Yes this is a social dance and you have to think of the people around you...
-----
One think I have noticed is that in some communities
You can always find some 'experienced' leaders trying to introduce some new ladies into tango and trying to teach them 'advanced' steps; as opposed to the very first, simple, tango vocabulary.
Some of these guys:
A: have a genuine interest in tango
B: some of them are just trying to impress the new ladies...
C: (I guess there should be more than those two categories:)
From my experience most of the ladies, being offered for a 'type -B' lesson do enjoy their first tango 'steps' with their 'mentor'. But when they become better, they try to avoid dancing with him...
I was wandering what the ladies of the list think about it
-Marco
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 11:32:48 -0500
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Beginners on the Dancefloor
Why is it that most often, the leaders giving these new followers lessons
aren't very good themselves, and certainly don't know how to follow?
Sometimes it's OK, but you may be "soiling your own bed" as they say. Often,
women get so used to these dance-floor lessons that they think they don't
have to take real lessons. When they do, the habits formed can be very hard
to break. The rest of the leaders suffer, because there are not enough good
followers to lead - just puppets who ocho by themselves or need the next
instruction to be whispered in their ear.
> > to dance and give her a mini-lesson?
Sometimes it can be "ok".
Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:35:10 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Beginners on the Dancefloor
David Liu writes:
> > If you see a woman who obviously is enthralled with
> > the music and mystery of Tango... is it OK to ask her
> > to dance and give her a mini-lesson?
>
> Zorro,
>
> Sometimes it can be "ok". However, it depends *a lot*
> on you.
>
> I guess I would say that you should ask a sample of
> women followers you know if *they* think it would be
> bad for to do this. [...]
and Lois Donnay adds:
> Sometimes it's OK, but you may be "soiling your own bed" as they say. Often,
> women get so used to these dance-floor lessons that they think they don't
> have to take real lessons. When they do, the habits formed can be very hard
> to break. The rest of the leaders suffer, because there are not enough good
> followers to lead - just puppets who ocho by themselves or need the next
> instruction to be whispered in their ear.
>
> > > to dance and give her a mini-lesson?
>
> Sometimes it can be "ok".
What you are missing, David (and you too, Lois)
is that it's not all about you and your partner, and
what she might like (David) and what the consequences
might be down the line (Lois).
What it *is* all about is everyone else on the
dance floor. A milonga should be a trance-like
experience, a group of people mesmerized by the
music and dancing in a collective ronda, looking
out for each other and being careful not to disturb
anyone else's enjoyment of the experience. To
inject into this some clown (I'm sorry to use that
word again, but I'm afraid it bests describes it)
presuming to break the mood and/or block the flow
by giving a tango lesson -- well, it not only is
ridiculous, but it really is quite rude and
inconsiderate to everyone else.
Practica is practica and milonga is milonga.
Period.
If you want to teach a beginner who wanders
into a milonga, please take her out into the hallway
for your "mini-lesson," not out onto the dance floor.
Huck
Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 12:39:47 -0700
From: Marisa Holmes <mariholmes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Beginners on the Dancefloor and "teaching"
> David Liu writes:
> If you see a woman who obviously is enthralled
> with the music and mystery of Tango... is it OK to
> ask her to dance and give her a mini-lesson?
It's OK to ask her to dance - very nice. It's not OK
to give her a mini-lesson. It's not OK to give her a
full lesson. It's not OK to give her any kind of a
lesson except the kind she gets by dancing with
someone who can introduce her wordlessly to the
experience of DANCING among other people. If you can
adapt your idea of tango to what you can lead her to
do without explanation, go right ahead. The test is
that when it is all over:
The follower has enjoyed herself without spending more
than the briefest moments thinking of the things she
cannot yet do, and
No one else on the floor even noticed you were dancing
with a beginner.
We have recently had a fellow (or as Frank so rightly
says, a clown) appear who fancied himself as a
teacher. He picked up women who were new and walked
out on the floor where he began explaining and
performing walking exercises using a practice hold.
If everything was not to his satisfaction he would
stop and discuss some more, usually positioned across
the line of dance. He blocked the ronda and he was
audible throughout the room. The women he was
instructing were displayed to the public as people who
"needed" instruction, rather than as attractive human
beings (of whatever skill level). I've lost track of
who just said that women would tolerate more
instruction than men, but I tell you - that guy lost
twenty partners among the women who decided that they
did not need instruction from someone who behaved so
disrespectfully - or that they would not risk
receiving instruction from someone so ignorant. In a
group where there were ten extra women, the guy was
sitting out.
Marisa
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:05:52 -0400
From: Simona G <simona_tango@YAHOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Beginners on the Dancefloor and "teaching"
Gibson Batch <gibsonbatch@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
"Sometimes I do count out the beat to a beginner (OK, sue me, I think sound effects help when done softly)."
OUCH!!! If a leader would count the beat for me while dancing, such as in "Hey, you can't even get the rythm right!" I would most certainly be very offended, even if I'm a beginner, and probably avoid dancing with him again.
Gibson Batch <gibsonbatch@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
"So men (leaders), if you were to take someone out for a tango for the first time, and you had only 10 seconds to say something before launch, what instructions would YOU give? I won't tell you my instructions just yet, I want to hear from others first. Remember, 10 seconds, then total silence."
Why only ask this question to the leaders? I think this question should be asked to the receiving follower aswell - especially beginners. Personnaly, the first seconds before a dance I'd rather NOT receive any instructions at all!!! It would immediately set the focus on my dancing limitations and not at all on the pleasure of sharing a dance.
For me to really enjoy the dance, the first seconds should be there to try to connect with each other. I would prefer the leader just to be present and make me feel that he really desires to dance with me - smile, look me in the eyes, take some time to adjust the embrace and let me breath, relax and open up to the music.
Simona
Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:58:29 -0400
From: bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM
Subject: Re: Beginners on the Dancefloor and
Gibson asked:
if you were to take someone out for a tango for the first time, and you had only 10 seconds to say something before launch, what instructions would YOU give?
Simona wrote:
"For me to really enjoy the dance, the first seconds should be there to try to connect with each other. I would prefer the leader just to be present and make me feel that he really desires to dance with me"
Simona, I understand what you are saying but I don't think the average beginner really understands yet what it means to really enjoy the dance or even to connect. It takes time to really relax in this dance and to actually feel it. Beginners are too conscious of their uncomfortability yet to actually feel anything else but.
Gibson, as a new tango dancer, I used to dance with a guy who was a very nice dancer, who took to training me on technique. While practicing at the studio it was one thing...but the first night we went to a milonga, I was so concentrating on my technique that I was far from being relaxed. After a couple of dances he pulled away and looked at me and said... "Forget the technique, forget the steps, just breathe and relax and listen to the music, and let me worry about the rest....you just try to feel something from the music and the movement." So, I took a deep breathe, closed my eyes and just tried to feel..... after three more dances he pulled away and said "wow...you don't dance like that in the studio"...and the rest of the night thought I was attracted to him and wanted to go home with him afterwards! Guess I had found the sex appeal in the dance! haha...
But, anyway, I think the best thing a leader can say to the follower is....to try to relax and trust. Even after 4 years of tango, at the end of a stressful day, I need my leaders to tell me that sometimes. As a follower, I always tell beginners.... don't worry, just take your time and relax The first few dances are almost like losing your virginity... someone needs to help the other find some comfort in it.
Nicole
Miami
Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 10:02:12 -0400
From: Simona G <simona_tango@YAHOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Beginners on the Dancefloor and "teaching"
Hi all,
I think part of my previous message was mis-understood by some, I'll just take a minute to clarify.
I wrote:
"For me to really enjoy the dance, the first seconds should be there to try to connect with each other. I would prefer the leader just to be present and make me feel that he really desires to dance with me - smile, look me in the eyes, take some time to adjust the embrace and let me breath, relax and open up to the music."
and got the following feed-back:
> Being a man, I tend to think in terms of tangible
> instructions rather than
> feelings. All nonverbal cues and emotions for my
> first dance will be
> tempered by the fact that I don't even know her name
> yet. I am not going to
> look lovingly into someone's eyes - but I do want to
> dance.
Sorry, but I think you got me wrong. I don't think the word "lovingly" appeared anywhere in my message. Looking in your partner's eyes before the dance is simply a way of making sure that you and your partner are going to be 100% PRESENT during that dance, not only physically (obviously, your body is there), but mentally and emotionally aswell. Otherwise, the dance is just a sequence of steps.
The only emotion "required" (or wished for, and this is only my personal point of view) is that of wanting to share this dance WITH YOUR PARTNER, not just to dance, with anybody. Knowing your partner's name or any other confuse "business" of attraction is completely irrelevant, as far as I'm concerned.
Simona
