2520  Beginners rejecting advanced dancers

Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:40:13 -0500
From: donnay@DONNAY.NET
Subject: Beginners rejecting advanced dancers

Yes, beginners not dancing with those who've been around awhile. How's that
for a surprise? But I find that many new dancers are scared to dance with
more advanced dancers, and never ask, and even sometimes turn down the
opportunity. And even if they do venture, they are so nervous during the
dance! That makes the whole thing goes so badly that they may not try again.

I think that the best way to get dancers to stay in the community is to give
them a "tango moment" as quickly as possible. (It's a beautiful feeling to
be a person's first!) But often when I ask a leader to dance, he'll say "Oh,
no, I'm not good enough!

What do followers say to leaders who are afraid to ask? What do leaders do
to calm the nerves of the newer dancers? How can we get them "back up on the
horse" if things don't go as smoothly as they should?

(Of course, I have my ideas on these questions but will allow the others to
answer first!)
Lois
Minneapolis, MN

Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:55:07 GMT
From: michael <tangomaniac@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Beginners rejecting advanced dancers

Lois:

I inject nervous beginners with Novocaine. It has a wondrous soothing effect. Just Kidding!! But I bet it would work fine. Any way, a woman will sometimes say "I'm warning you. I'm a beginner." Her attitude is so negative, convincing herself she can't dance. I calmly look into her eyes, and say "Well, we all have to start somewhere." The usual response is "Thank You!!" followed by a more relaxed (not fully relaxed) body. The shoulders come down and her breathing is slower and deeper. If her right arm is stiff, I tell her to relax it. Because of POOR choice of words, when instructors say each partner is supposed to apply resistance, the implementation is the man's left arm and woman's right arm becomes stiff as steel. The man can't lead and the woman's stiff right arm gets in the way of executing molinetes and ochos.

Sometimes, I put her right arm over my shoulder so now she has nothing to push against. The woman is usually impressed how much her dancing has improved. If the woman wants to know why, I tell her, after the dance and off the floor.

BTW Lois, how far is Minneapolis from Lake Wobegone, MN?

Michael
Washington, DC
Anxiously waiting to dance on the Staten Island Ferry
as part of the NY Tango Festival

-- donnay@DONNAY.NET wrote:

What do leaders do to calm the nerves of the newer dancers? as they should?
Lois
Minneapolis, MN

Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:28:41 -0400
From: Tuan Tran <tuan35@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Beginners rejecting advanced dancers

This is how one person handled it and it became one of my fondest Tango memories. With less than a year of classes (as opposed to actual dancing) under my belt, I took a group workshop from Susana Miller. At that evening's milonga, she invited me to dance. I hesitated and confessed that, not only was I a newbie, but I haven't even danced apilado until that same morning. She looked at me straight in the eyes, raised her index finger and said "just one." At the end of the song, she raised the same finger and said "one more." Soon a whole tanda went by and, despite the fact that I held my breath through most of it, I was still alive.

Tuan
Falls Church, VA

>
> From: donnay@DONNAY.NET
> Date: 2004/06/18 Fri AM 09:40:13 EDT
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [TANGO-L] Beginners rejecting advanced dancers
>
> Yes, beginners not dancing with those who've been around awhile. How's that
> for a surprise? But I find that many new dancers are scared to dance with
> more advanced dancers, and never ask, and even sometimes turn down the
> opportunity. And even if they do venture, they are so nervous during the
> dance! That makes the whole thing goes so badly that they may not try again.
>
> I think that the best way to get dancers to stay in the community is to give
> them a "tango moment" as quickly as possible. (It's a beautiful feeling to
> be a person's first!) But often when I ask a leader to dance, he'll say "Oh,
> no, I'm not good enough!
>
> What do followers say to leaders who are afraid to ask? What do leaders do
> to calm the nerves of the newer dancers? How can we get them "back up on the
> horse" if things don't go as smoothly as they should?
>
> (Of course, I have my ideas on these questions but will allow the others to
> answer first!)
> Lois
> Minneapolis, MN
>

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2004 20:12:13 -0700
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Beginners rejecting advanced dancers

Lois wrote:

"....What do followers say to leaders who are afraid
to
ask? What do leaders do
to calm the nerves of the newer dancers? How can we
get them "back up on the
horse" if things don't go as smoothly as they
should?..."

I love to dance with beginners. There, I said it. I
just don't understand why that practice is held in so
much disrepute. Not always, of course, and not for
prolonged periods of time, but I actually consider it
a privilege and an honor to dance with beginners
sometimes.

First of all, they are so much more polite as a rule.
And so appreciative, which makes them quite endearing.
Who can remain unmoved by someone who tells you, "You
must have been dancing for a while," with a little
gleam of gratitude in their eyes, even if you're maybe
two lessons ahead of them? I'm not a hotshot dancer.
Far from it. I just love the stuff. So I try to convey
that enthusiasm to anybody I dance with, including
beginners. When they apologize for missing a step, I
tell them something funny. Like the classic line from
"Scent of a Woman" about getting tangled up in tango.
(Everybody knows it, right?) Or something like that.
We have a little laugh, he breathes a sigh of relief,
and we spend the rest of the tanda having a very nice
time.

I also have a more selfish reason. I usually learn
something new or unusual from each one of these men,
something I haven't seen before dancing with the
partners I usually dance with. I make a point of
looking for it. They are often an inspiration to me
for doing the same old step in some new and different
way. It may be their musicality. It may be their
intensity. It may be their smile. It may be their way
of embracing me. Who knows. There's something special
about each and every one of these gentlemen. And I
have danced many quite incredibly wonderful tandas
with some of these gentlemen a little down the road
when they do become "experts".

Some hotshot leaders did something similar for me when
I was trying to get the hang of all this. Why not
spread the wealth.

Luda

=====

Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 19:28:27 -0500
From: "Lois Donnay (E-mail)" <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Beginners rejecting advanced dancers

Amen, Luda. Another thing I find is that you need to be so much better when
you dance with beginners. You HAVE to stand up straight. You HAVE to keep
your axis, and your balance. You HAVE to be clear with your intention.

Sometimes an "intermediate" leader will tell me "I need to dance with more
advanced dancers now, or I won't get better." I also hear "I've been dancing
with too many beginners, and that's why my dancing is going downhill." Not
true, unless you fall into the trap of pushing your partner around with your
arms in order to get them to do what you want. (That is something I refuse
to do. I hate it as a follower, so why would I do it when I'm leading?
Besides, if you're pushing your partner into moves, what is the point of the
dance?) I find that if I stick even more strongly to the above principles,
I'm much more likely to lead successfully. Rewarding and affirming of the
right principles-not a bad idea! It also teaches me to go with the flow - if
she doesn't do what I had intended, then I should learn to deal with it. If
you're only dancing with better dancers who may feel sorry for you and be
kind enough to complete a move you really didn't lead, how are you
advancing? You may actually get sloppier.

Sometimes during a dance with a beginner, when it's not going well, I remind
myself to stand up straight. It makes an immediate and beneficial
difference. This sticks with me when I lead anyone.

Lois (speaking as a leader today, even though I'm female)
Minneapolis, MN

> I also have a more selfish reason. I usually learn
> something new or unusual from each one of these men, something I
> haven't seen before dancing with the partners I usually dance with. I
> make a point of looking for it. They are often an inspiration to me
> for doing the same old step in some new and different
> way. It may be their musicality. It may be their
> intensity. It may be their smile. It may be their way
> of embracing me. Who knows. There's something special
> about each and every one of these gentlemen. And I
> have danced many quite incredibly wonderful tandas
> with some of these gentlemen a little down the road
> when they do become "experts".
>