1451 Bizarre posts
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 00:00:36 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango@AOL.COM>
Subject: Bizarre posts
I don't think the issue is about how hard one works in tango or that dancing
to non-tango music means you are more light hearted and have more fun than
those who choose to only dance to traditional tango music. It is about respect
for a culture and it's roots. As Manuel said it is really culture arrogance when
one thinks they can improve something that they don't even really understand
yet. One of the ways you learn about a culture is to immerse yourself into and
accept it's parts, the good, the bad, and the ugly. I personally find much of
latin pop music nauseatingly trite and often overloaded with instrumentation
and sentiments but it is also an integral part of the culture. Even many of
the tango lyrics are leaden with soap-operatic sentiments. Juan D'Arienzo was
often very corny and hammy on stage dancing around and gesticulating on stage in
time to the music. But all of that is a part of the musical heritage.
We have a tendency to dance to other types of music because we grew up with
that music and the real reason we dance to it is because it is familiar and
comfortable to us. We choose other forms because that is what we need, not what
tango needs. Most North Americans (and others) just don't have the patience to
really learn it correctly or very well. It is much easier to be "creative" and
"interpret" without realizing that their interpretations are rooted in their
own culture and will only express that. They are not improving tango or having
fun with it. They are avoiding it.
Humility is not a strong point of our make-up in the US and to really learn
one must be humble and accept one's own ignorance and open up to learning
another culture including it's limitations instead of deciding what needs to be
corrected.
Cheers,
Charles
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 04:50:48 -0400
From: Ba Tango <rhink2@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject: Bizarre Posts
Hola All,
This thread on what is "true" tango seems to be a perennial favorite,
so I'll make my yearly contribution.
The tango world, one may argue the world in general, is divided into two
groups of people: the preservationists and the experimentalists. Some
might use labels "conservatives" and "liberals", respectively. Regardless of what terms are applied, there are those who want to keep
things as they are and those who wish to change things presumably for
the better.
I believe each group plays an important role in maintaining the health
of tango, although there is an inherent conflict between the two. Assuming tango is a type of language used by two people to express
their feelings evoked by the music, these roles become sharply defined.
Any language needs a grammar or structure. Without such a grammar,
everyone would be "speaking" jibberish. Partner dancing could not
exist. The preservationists are the guardians of the grammar.
A "language" that does not change with the times (i.e. the music
and style in the case of dance) stagnates and eventually dies.
Even the Catholic Church, one of the more conservative organizations
on the planet, had to give up Latin mass, for example.
The experimentalists keep tango evolving and thereby vital.
I personally fall natually into the experimentalist group, but that
doesn't mean I can't appreciate the contribution made by the
preservationists.
Bob Hink
San Francisco, CA
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Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 00:34:04 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG>
Subject: Re: Bizarre posts
Fair of exchange of opinion is one thing; Rude and insulting is another.
My voice is most often associated with a "traditionalist" viewpoint
when it comes to tango music, however I would like to call a halt to
personal attacks and rude comments.
There are valid points on all sides.
I thought Andrew's explanations of what he does and why he does it in
his alternative milonga was clear and profound. Portland is a city in
which traditional tango is well-represented, and the Monday night
milonga by Robert Hauk is a bastion of good taste in traditional
tango music. I might go so far as to award Portland the "best dancing
award" in N. America (except I've not traveled everywhere to justify
such an opinion). Portland is richer for the opportunity to try all
versions of tango, including the Wednesday alternative.
I hope I can enjoy Andrew's milonga some day.
Tango does go through changes.
In the 1930s tango music slowed down, and this moved the dance from a
rhythmic driving dance toward an elegant walking style. The middle
classes came in; the street kids with their ganchos, quebradas, and
slutty movements were kicked out of the "nice" clubs. De Caro and
Pugliese, and later Fresedo, Troilo and Di Sarli led the radicals;
D'Arienzo represented a conservative strain:
"To my way of thinking the tango is, above all, rhythm,
nerve, force, character...I tried to restore to the tango
its masculine quality." -- Juan D'Arienzo (1949)
In the present day, tango dancing is reviving on the styles of the
1940s, 1990s and other decades. We are unfortunately lacking an
authentic tango revival musical genre. In swing we had revival bands
like Indigo Swing, Squirrel Nut Zippers, and others who absolutely
wallowed in an old/new swing sensibility for dancers.
Where are the tango groups pursuing the "real 1940s DANCE sound"?
There are a few, but most pursue the creative/jazz sensibilities of
Piazzolla, later Pugliese and concert tangos of the 1960s. This is
affecting tango dance more dramatically (and perhaps for the worse)
than a few people applying tango movements to non-tango music.
--
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org/
stermitz@tango.org
303-388-2560
