3496  Cliques, factions, and tango

Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 13:21:41 -0400
From: Miguel Canals <elpibemc1961@YAHOO.CA>
Subject: Cliques, factions, and tango

--- PjTango wrote:

> The A list, B list and don't show up list:

Really sad story. Guess they don't understand that
having your enemy in your sight is better than not
seeing them at all.

....... (Just kidding, but still sad.)


--- Kace wrote:
[The Singapore tango community] has grown organically
over the years as one without suffering the factions
and rivalry that plague other cities. That must be
worth celebrating!

Worth celebrating indeed. The tango community where I
live is going through just that, fracturing. We're
not unique, of course. I am interested in what the
most common causes are.

In our case, one person is trying to monopolize, or at
least to capture a big part of the activities. He is
causing havoc by flooding the community with his
events. Some in the community try to be friendly and
still support his events, maybe hoping to get him to
turn around. I think that may be a lost cause.

The other cause of fracturing is artistic difference.
One former partner in a milonga wants to stay
traditional, and the other want to go alternative. The
nuevo group don't talk to the close embrace group.
There are all kinds of examples.

Did any community have any success in dealing with
things like this? Tango police? ;-)

Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 14:50:16 -0500
From: Leonardo Kunkayo <leonardok@MAC.COM>
Subject: Re: Cliques, factions, and tango

Every tango community that I have gotten to know, below the surface,
all seem to have division. As on this site there is passionate division
about style and how to perform simple elements. Participants will
naturally follow the teachers and the milongas that cater to their own
style.

I have listened to ideas that each style is its own language. I do not
believe in my experience or agree. I would hope to promote a slightly
different idea. That the Argentine tango is one language but with
different dialects. This would promote a singular appreciation and
support of all. I think there is enough common ground in all styles to
promote the entire community. If all can accept the way a person owns
and dances their own style then the community stays friendly.

When it gets down to the bottom line it is the egos that conflict. The
arguments if not overt leave the impression that their style is better
than others. Their tango is more refined or precise. They can do it
better. They are a better teacher. etc.

When I lived in Dallas there was some fracturing but I felt for the
most part the dancers were fairly supportive of each other. There was
only one teacher that I felt recruited and promoted himself at
inappropriate times. And he appear to be needy of his ego being boosted
constantly. Mostly by women.

There was two elements instrumental in keeping the Dallas community
somewhat together.
1. The first was having a couple like Susan and Steve Brown there from
the beginning of tango in Dallas. They were and are totally unselfish
people and supportive of the community at large even at times to their
own detriment. They were a stable force for tango in Dallas. I always
admired and appreciated their unselfish contributions. You only have
to look at Steve's website to know what I mean. He provides and keeps
up to date information that encompasses the whole tango community. Now
even starting to extend beyond Dallas.

2. Tango Argentino Dallas was formed as a non profit organization to
promote tango in Dallas. This organization made it easier to deal and
contract with the City of Dallas to participate in cultural events and
to demonstrate the tango to the community. They also were instrumental
in bring in groups like Color Tango for milongas. TAD hosts regular
milongas that are non partisan of any one teacher. They also arranged
for exhibitions at events where anyone can sign up to participate.

But TAD with its positive contributions has floundered at times because
of one rule. The bylaws specify that no teacher could be on the board.
When I began teaching I had to resign from the board as did several
other couples when they began teaching. In one way it was good. No one
teacher could taint the organization by the appearance of a conflict of
interest. No one person could benefit over others by the decisions of
the board.

The down side was that those involved in teaching are also the most
dedicated to helping expand tango and their removal left the board with
less than the most motivated or promotionally minded people.

May your tango prosper,
Leonardo K.

Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 18:05:58 -0500
From: "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
Subject: Re: Cliques, factions, and tango

Miguel Canals wrote:

>--- PjTango wrote:
>
>>The A list, B list and don't show up list:
>>

That was a sorry showing.

>--- Kace wrote:
>> [The Singapore tango community] has grown organically
>> over the years as one without suffering the factions
>> and rivalry that plague other cities. That must be
>> worth celebrating!
>
>Worth celebrating indeed.
>

I agree.

>The tango community where I
>live is going through just that, fracturing. We're
>not unique, of course. I am interested in what the
>most common causes are.
>

More importantly, I think people in new communities would love to
know what they did right in Singapore, to avoid such an outcome.

I suspect a big part of it has to do with putting tango first, both
qualitatively and quantitatively, without imposing tight boundaries
on it.

>In our case, one person is trying to monopolize, or at
>least to capture a big part of the activities. He is
>causing havoc by flooding the community with his
>events. Some in the community try to be friendly and
>still support his events, maybe hoping to get him to
>turn around. I think that may be a lost cause.
>

This may happen by itself, depending on how often he runs events.
In my experience, 9 hours of tango classes in less than 48 hours
plus a milonga or 2 is unbelievably exhausting on every level:
physical, intellectual, emotional, moral and spiritual. I've been
to 7 such workshops since the start of the year, and I'm always a
vegetable at the end.

>The other cause of fracturing is artistic difference.
>One former partner in a milonga wants to stay
>traditional, and the other want to go alternative. The
>nuevo group don't talk to the close embrace group.
>There are all kinds of examples.
>

On one level, "De gustibus non dispudandum ..." (you can't argue
taste). The alternative vs traditional vs milonguero vs salon vs
nuevo wars have as much meaning as a debate on the best flavor of
ice cream: vanilla vs chocolate vs chocolate chip vs mint chip vs
Ben & Jerry's Cherries Garcia.

We can't avoid things like alternative milongas and nuevo tango, they
are a natural outcome of introducing traditional tango into today's
culture. Or, to loosely paraphrase something I heard an instructor
say, "we can't avoid creating a new American Tango ..."

Tango traditionalists need to avoid the surface distinction of what
gets played at milongas, and continue contributing by going into how
their music works, strongly conveying technique, connection and
musicality to make sure that what the next generation creates retains
the essence of traditional tango.

The alternative crowd needs to know that without traditional tango,
there wouldn't be alternative tango either. In particular they ought
to be mining traditional tango for everything they can.

Just for the record, I lean towards more traditional music and salon
style with a close embrace.

>Did any community have any success in dealing with
>things like this? Tango police? ;-)
>

Foster acceptance. Bring in instructors who transcend the boundaries
invoked by teachers who market themselves by delineating styles.

--
Christopher L. Everett

Chief Technology Officer www.medbanner.com
MedBanner, Inc. www.physemp.com

Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 04:16:44 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cliques, factions, and tango

Leonardo Kunkayo wrote...

Every tango community that I have gotten to know, below the surface, all
seem to have division. ... Participants will naturally follow the teachers
and the milongas that cater to their own style.
...
[One] element instrumental in keeping the Dallas community somewhat together
... having a couple like Susan and Steve Brown there from the beginning of
tango in Dallas. They were and are totally unselfish people and supportive
of the community at large even at times to their
own detriment. They were a stable force for tango in Dallas.

Portland has had success similar to Dallas. The Portland tango community was
started by Clay Nelson in the mid 90's. There was a core of dancers with him
from the start that, for whatever reason, were very focused on creating a
community. While Portland doesn't have a formal organization like Dallas, we
do have Bill Alsup's website at www.PortlandTango.com. Bill was with Clay
from the beginning, and his website has been a congealing force to keep us
together. All of the (now many) organizers put their announcements on his
site, and through the years everyone has been sensitive to not
double-booking events. "Minor" events, like on-going milongas and practicas,
are scheduled so they don't conflict with other events. Organizers of
"major" events try to follow an unwritten (but discussed) rule of spacing at
least 3 or 4 weeks apart to avoid saturation.

That said, it's very clear that there is division/specialization. As
Leaonard said, some dancers prefer different music, and they will naturally
go to those milongas that play that music. So you have "regulars" at the
Wednesday 50% alternative-music milonga at Nocturnal who virtually don't go
to any other events. And you have people who prefer traditional music that
go to Robert Hauk's Monday milonga or Peter Esser's alternate-Friday's
milonga or other events that mostly play traditional music.

But through it all I can't say I've seen any "fracturing." Dancers go to the
events they like, but there's little competition or bad feelings. I think
having Bill's website as a central scheduling device has been crucial to
keeping us together as a family community. The second main ingredient is of
course that the organizers have to Want to build and maintain that
community, sometimes, as Leonard said about Susan and Steve Brown in Dallas,
at the expense of personal egos and agendas.

In Portland we've been blessed that Bill and Robert and Megan and Polly and
Laurie Ann have been selfless and tireless in promoting a sense of one
community.

J in Portland
www.TangoMoments.com

Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 13:20:06 -0300
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: Cliques, factions, and tango

Competing strategies, tango styles and personalities are normal.

Of these, you can choose style or strategy, but personality is not so
pliable.

Sometimes this leads to conflict, but it is really difficult for ONE
person to create a community. Those communtiies that have grown
fastest are those with multiple individuals or a group of people.
Those growing the slowest are tied to one person.

Clay Nelson (already mentioned) worked with openness to build
Portland into one of the largest and friendliest tango communities in
the US. Insecurity, so it is important to remember his motto:
"There's more than enough to go around".



In the US tango communities are relatively isolated, so they show the
consequences of different strategies and personalities.


Personality isn't something you can really change all that much. Some
people just like entertainers, others like a more analytical
approach, some like gentleness, others like tough teachers; some like
youthful or alternative, others like maturity & traditional.

Strategy and stylistic choice are more pliable than personality.

So for example, the decision to try to keep control or share is a
strategy.


The neat thing is that tango communities around the US have a variety
of strategies, and stylistic emphasis, so you can actually evaluate
where things are growing, and



On Jun 7, 2005, at 11:21 AM, Miguel Canals wrote:

>
> --- Kace wrote:
> [The Singapore tango community] has grown organically
> over the years as one without suffering the factions
> and rivalry that plague other cities. That must be
> worth celebrating!
>
> Worth celebrating indeed. The tango community where I
> live is going through just that, fracturing. We're
> not unique, of course. I am interested in what the
> most common causes are.
> ...
> Did any community have any success in dealing with
> things like this? Tango police? ;-)
>

Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 07:19:09 -0600
From: Ron Weigel <tango.society@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Conflicting Tango Styles (was: Cliques, factions, and tango)

On 6/7/05, Leonardo Kunkayo <leonardok@mac.com> wrote:

> I have listened to ideas that each style is its own language. I do not
> believe in my experience or agree. I would hope to promote a slightly
> different idea. That the Argentine tango is one language but with
> different dialects. This would promote a singular appreciation and
> support of all. I think there is enough common ground in all styles to
> promote the entire community. If all can accept the way a person owns
> and dances their own style then the community stays friendly.
>
> When it gets down to the bottom line it is the egos that conflict. The
> arguments if not overt leave the impression that their style is better
> than others. Their tango is more refined or precise. They can do it
> better. They are a better teacher. etc.

Conflicting egos can be a problem for community unity, even when there
is similarity of dancing styles or agreement about the best music for
dancing tango.

Differences in music preferences are unlikely to cause major
conflicts, as long as there are choices available in a community. If
people don't like the music, they just won't go to a particular
milonga.

However, differences in dancing style can be disruptive to community
harmony even if there are no ego battles or there is general
acceptance of the music played at milongas.

The greatest potential for conflict that I see is when there are
numerous fantasia style dancers at the milongas. It is quite common in
tango communities across the US (perhaps more correct to say - outside
Buenos Aires) to have a half dozen, a dozen, or more couples who
utilize on the milonga dance floor figures that are characteristic of
stage choreography. These patterns are large, space consuming, and
often move independently of the line-of-dance. On crowded floors (and
sometimes even on sparsely populated floors) these movements become
hazardous to other dancers. Under these conditions it is quite common
to hear reports of bumps, kicks, and the like. A small number of
dancers like these can disrupt the atmospher at a milonga and make it
unpleasant for other dancers who adhere to the line-of-dance and
respect other dancer's space.

Solutions for this problem are not easy, particularly if there are
instructors teaching students stage moves. In such cases, community
harmony can be disrupted. In large communities there may be fission
along the lines of style (i.e., separate milongas for different tango
styles), but in smaller communities separation of dancers by style can
fail to generate a sufficient number for an enjoyable milonga.

Ron
Urbana IL