1755 Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:42:43 -0700
From: Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
Anyone have any helpful suggestions on how to tactfully deal with a leader who obliviously crashes into a couple behind them, by taking the leading the dreaded backstep into the line of dance & crashing into the couple just behind them. No apology, no nothing, just moves onto repeat on another part of the floor...
R
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:50:14 -0700
From: "Lucy E. Lynch" <llynch@DARKWING.UOREGON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
All that is required is a follower with a flare for drama...
The women in the "stepped on" couple gives a delicate shriek, clutchs
the offending leaders shoulder, grabs one ankle, hobbles off the floor
moaning softly, and keeps him tied up getting *water* *asprin*
*her sweetheart* *her purse* etc. for at least two dances, all the while
assuring him that anyone can make a terrible mistake *once*
Lucy E. Lynch Academic User Services
Computing Center University of Oregon
llynch @darkwing.uoregon.edu (541) 346-1774/Cell: 912-7998
La theorie c'est bon, mais ca n'empeche pas d'exister -Jean Martin Charcot
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003, Rick FromPortland wrote:
> Anyone have any helpful suggestions on how to tactfully deal with a leader who obliviously crashes into a couple behind them, by taking the leading the dreaded backstep into the line of dance & crashing into the couple just behind them. No apology, no nothing, just moves onto repeat on another part of the floor...
> R
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:56:49 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM> writes:
> Anyone have any helpful suggestions on how to tactfully
> deal with a leader who obliviously crashes into a couple
> behind them, by taking the leading the dreaded backstep
> into the line of dance & crashing into the couple just
> behind them. No apology, no nothing, just moves onto
> repeat on another part of the floor...
If food is served at the milonga, instead of stabbing
him with your own knife, "borrow" a steak knife and use
that instead -- that way you can just leave the knife
in the body and it will act as a plug so that most of the
blood will stay in as well. This is a much more tactful
way of dealing with him than if you use your own knife, in
which case you will have to retrieve it (a good knife is not
cheap these days!), and then all the blood will gush out and
make a big mess on the dance floor, perhaps even causing
one of your fellow dancers to slip and fall.
Huck
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 19:07:45 -0700
From: Lisa Raab <lraab1@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
How about a well placed in-line boleo where the sun doesn't shine as he's
backing up?... ;-)
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 15:42:43 -0700 Rick FromPortland
<pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM> writes:
> Anyone have any helpful suggestions on how to tactfully deal with a
> leader who obliviously crashes into a couple behind them, by taking
> the leading the dreaded backstep into the line of dance & crashing
> into the couple just behind them. No apology, no nothing, just moves
> onto repeat on another part of the floor...
> R
>
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 22:11:00 -0700
From: Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
Hmmmm, I'm sensing a consensus here ;o)
Speak a language that the crasher might understand. That makes sense.
It has been brought to my attention, that there are common ways, in a famous
antipodean (to N. Americans anyway) Tango city, to deal with this kind of nuisance.
A well-placed counter-move. Thanks everyone...
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:14:34 -0700
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
These responses are meant to be humorous, but they
reveal deeper feelings...
" How about a well placed in-line boleo where the sun
doesn't shine as he's backing up?... ;-)"
""borrow" a steak knife and use that instead -- that
way you can just leave the knife in the body..."
You can't solve a problem by treating the symptoms.
For every back-stepping lead that gets steak-knifed or
boleo-ed, 10 more are created. (Not born.) All of
this anger against back stepping leads is misplaced.
Lousy dancers are a result of lousy teachers. (Trust
me - I'm a reformed back stepper. I would have never
developed the habbit if I had had decent teachers from
the beginning.)
Give the poor guys a break. Next time you encounter a
dreaded clueless one, ask him who his teacher is. Then
get the steak knife...
So how do you politely deal with a back stepper
without disrupting the positive energy at a milonga?
There are at least two options. You can avoid him, or
arrest his motion.
As the lead, you are responsible for safely navigating
the floor. That includes protecting your follow from
back stepping lummoxes. Unless you are a very
experienced dancer, accept that you cannot control the
other leads. Instead, learn to navigate despite them.
First, when you arrive at a milonga, sit out for a few
dances, and watch the leads. The good leads are easy
to pick out. Ignore them, they won't get in your way.
The beginners are easy to pick out too. Be aware of
who they are, but don't worry about them, they are not
likely to be a problem. It is the intermediate leads
you want to pay attention to. Get a feel for their
patterns.
Second, when you take the floor, take a position
behind a good dancer (not a showy stepper). Try to
stay behind him for the entire tanda. Not only will
you not have to worry about back stepping, but
following his pace is an effortless way to improve
your dancing and musicality.
Third, when you end up behind a clueless lead (and it
happens to all of us), accept it as a challenge to
improve your navigation skills. Remember, you watched
this guy dance before you took the floor, and you have
a feel for his patterns. Anticipate his bad moves, and
keep your follow out of harms way. Most back steppers
will back step after a sidestep to the right, or after
resolution. Watch for those moves, and you will have
at least a full beat to improvise your defense. (For
example, a forward ocho gives him room...)
Alternately, a change of face puts your back against
his, and can stop him dead. But, don't make a habit of
aggressive moves like this, or your community may see
you as the problem. I almost always try to peacefully
accommodate less experienced dancers.
The one exception is the tango clown who still teaches
the 8 count basic in our community. Somehow, I always
seem to be in the way when he's back stepping, or
showing off his favorite patterns. He knows a half
dozen or so figures, so I can always guess where he
will be in next 3 beats. Too bad he never learned
navigation or improvisation ;o).
Sean
--- Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
Hmmmm, I'm sensing a consensus here ;o)
Speak a language that the crasher might understand.
That makes sense.
It has been brought to my attention, that there are
common ways, in a famous antipodean (to N. Americans
anyway) Tango city, to deal with this kind of
nuisance.
A well-placed counter-move. Thanks everyone...
=====
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 11:53:02 -0700
From: Marisa Holmes <mariholmes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
Sharp elbow in the middle of the back followed by a
heartfelt apology.
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 20:20:28 +1000
From: Gary <garybarn@OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
{Tentatively putting my head above the parapet...}
I think 'clueless' might be a bit harsh - they may be doing their best with
the clues they have, and they may have been given bad clues. They may
actually be showing reckless disregard for others, or they may genuinely
believe that there is nothing wrong with backsteps, and that you as the
person behind them in the ronda are to blame for taking space that is
rightfully theirs.
Either way, I agree with Sean that poor education is often the cause, and
peaceful accommodation the best short-term solution.
I am a guilty party here - in doing backsteps that are completely against
the LOD on a bad day, but also in attempting moves where I step "back"
around my partner but don't quite get around enough and end up stealing
space from the couple behind or next to me.
I got into these habits from teachers who taught patterns always starting
with a backstep - despite earlier training that forbade this, my own belief
that it is a no-no, and my general dislike and avoidance of patterns. The
power of repetition is formidable!
So I tend to be forgiving of these mistakes in others.
Where I mostly dance tango (Canberra, Australia), our milongas are small and
usually the dance floor is not crowded, but neither is there wide open space
where anything goes (except just before closing).
For example we might have 10-20 couples on the floor, in a space maybe 7 by
6 metres. Almost all will be moving in the line of dance, to the best of
their abilities. Occasionally, two lanes will form.
At this level of crowding (or rather lack of it), it is usually relatively
easy to stay at least one step behind the couple in front of you.
This, for me, is by far the easiest way of avoiding problems with a single
back step from the guy in front. Basically, I let him. I suppose it is isn't
so much 'tactfully dealing with the leader' as a simple survival strategy.
It also contributes to a generally flowing and harmonious dance floor.
When the floor is more crowded, I just don't have an answer. Sometimes you
can see a backward pile-up when someone takes a sudden backstep, forcing the
guy behind to back up, and eventually someone further back gets kicked.
The more general problem of poor floorcraft needs firstly education to
produce awareness that it is an issue, and then education on how to fix it.
For some leaders, I suspect the excellent suggestions from Lucy (big drama)
and Huck (big knife) may be necessary to change their awareness, but for
most, a more gentle approach is needed.
If its someone you know, talk to them - not at the time, but in a practica
or some other safe situation. If you don't know them, maybe talk to someone
who teaches them, or dances with them?
Indirect approaches can also help - eg write an article that goes in your
local dance newsletter, about floorcraft. Encourage your teachers to teach
it - not just rules, but strategies.
Good tangos to you, uninterrupted by collisions, whether of your own making,
or of others, or just bad luck!
Gary
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:59:56 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
Anyone have any helpful suggestions on how to tactfully deal with a
leader who obliviously crashes into a couple behind them, by taking the
leading the dreaded backstep into the line of dance & crashing into the
couple just behind them. No apology, no nothing, just moves onto repeat
on another part of the floor...
R
***************
The problem as I see it , is how the dance with your dancing partner is brutally interrupted .
If the man is the one that receives the crash , he may look to the face of the clueless leader , and see wether he is ashamed of the problem caused . This is a minor casualty , the dance may survive for the rest of the theme.
If the woman is the one that receives the crash , this is a major casualty .She was totally confident on you , his leader, maybe she was even with her eyes closed . If you were having a good embrace, you receive all the pain and shock of the woman, it is an awful moment. Like a ship cruhsing into the reefes, all the masts and sails tremble .
Your reaction is unpredictable,. You may curse the clueless leader, look angrily to him , speak to your dancing partner asking if she is ok ,blushing with shame thinking " it is my fault, I should have seen that flamboyant guy coming " .
But at this major casualty , the dance within your embrace , is lost , and it will be very difficult to recover for the rest of the theme. Maybe you will like to see what can be done with your dancing partner and your dance , to recover your connection .
Warm regards
Alberto Gesualdi
Usuario: yahoo; contraseqa: yahoo
Desde Buenos Aires: 4004-1010
Mas ciudades: clic aqum.
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 10:27:02 -0600
From: Brian Dunn <Brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
Anyone have any helpful suggestions on how to tactfully deal with a
leader who obliviously crashes into a couple behind them, by taking the
leading the dreaded backstep into the line of dance & crashing into the
couple just behind them. No apology, no nothing, just moves onto repeat
on another part of the floor...
R
***************
In all our teaching for the last several years, we've followed Daniel
Trenner's lead in warning about the risks of stepping where you can't see,
including the Dreaded Back Step against LOD...BUT! For traveling tangueros,
one cautionary note:
Before venturing out on the floor in an unfamiliar tango venue, watch the
local dancers for a bit, find one whose dancing you like, and see what they
do. It may in fact be an accepted local custom to take a backstep against
the LOD at the start of a phrase, or something. When I was dancing in
Berlin a couple years ago, this seemed to be the case. Rather than
producing constant collisions, all the local leaders seemed to have
successfully adapted to it by assuming the leader ahead of them might
backstep one step. Under those circumstances, respect for the local tango
dialect takes precedence over theoretical pedagogical considerations - and
as the visitor, it's my responsibility to protect my follower by observing
local customs on the floor.
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
1(303)938-0716
https://www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 10:16:43 +1000
From: Gary <garybarn@OZEMAIL.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Clueless leader, dreaded backstep into LOD...
Beautifully said, Alberto
You described exactly how I feel when this happens. My occasional anger at
the guy I think caused it, is really shame at not being able to protect my
partner.
Yes, it would be good to 'fix' that guy, but much more important is to avoid
trouble in the first place, and if it happens to look first to my partner.
Thankyou for bringing our focus back to the dance, and our partner.
Gary
it seems that around 29/08/03 1:59 AM, Alberto Gesualdi at
clambat2001@YAHOO.COM.AR wrote (among other things):
> Like a ship cruhsing into the
> reefes, all the masts and sails tremble .
...
> Your reaction is unpredictable,. You may curse the clueless leader, look
> angrily to him , speak to your dancing partner asking if she is ok ,blushing
> with shame thinking " it is my fault, I should have seen that flamboyant guy
> coming " .
